It sounds like this guy is clueless, but he deserves a chance to make it right. I wouldn't buy or pay another thing until this is made right. Immediately.

A few questions to clarify things for my currently decaffeinated brain:

1) Your flat bathroom floor was raised 2" with multiple layers of cement board?

2) At the shower entry he put down a thick bead of soft caulk to create a water dam, and the tiler tiled over the soft caulk?

3) At the shower entry, the floor slopes downward away from the entry and the caulk dam (or damn caulk?) to the drain which is at the back of the shower?

4) You wrote that he built up the flat bathroom floor with tile backer board. Did he use several layers of cement board to raise it 2"? It's an unconventional way to do it, but if he indeed did it that way he should have used thinset between each layer of cement board. If he didn't, over time you can get just enough vertical movement between layers for the floor to compress slightly as you walk on it. Even if each layer is screwed down.

5) What type of waterproofing was used on the sloped shower floor? The quickdrain body comes with a membrane "skirt" attached to it. Did they use the same membrane material on top of the remainder of the sloped floor, and did they extend the membrane past the shower entry and onto the flat part of the bathroom floor, about 6"-12" onto the flat bathroom floor?

6) How deep is your shower? Meaning, what is the distance from the start of the sloped floor at the shower entry to the quickdrain? The sloped mats that comes with QD are sloped at 1/4" per foot. So to drop the required 2" of elevation, you'd need 8' of run. 8' of run times 1/4" per foot equals a 2" drop. Did he come up short on the run, and that's why he added the vertical bump at the entry, to gain a little more elevation?

Adding a "speedbump" at the entry is done at times, but usually in ADA-type of showers for a wheelchair roll-over. But it's never done with a bead of caulk.

Sorry for your troubles. I understand I've asked more questions than I've answered.

Any photos?

Thank you Mongo for the kind questions.

1) the flat floor consists of plywood subfloor and backerboard screwed on top...

2) not sure if he used soft caulk, but is was a medium gray color. he applied it with a caulk gun and called it a "capillary break." He said he did it according to quickdrain instructions.

3) yes the floor slopes down to the back wall away from the so called capillary break, away from the entry. There is also another slight slope toward the entry way which is creating part of that ridge under the tile. The drain is at the back wall, under the window, opposite wall from entry.

4) I think I didn't describe this properly, the floor slopes down away from entry, starting at 42" away from the wall. From 42" the flat part extends to entry.

5) I am not sure of the answer to how far the membrane extended but I think it did extend toward entry, I think it was black or a dark color?

6) The shower is 40" deep, so yes I think from what you are describing he is short on the run, The begins 2" outside the shower depth... that makes his run 4 feet

For some reason I can only post one photo,

another photo of curbless shower disaster

What a shame, those tiles look otherwise very well installed, at least to my nonprofessional eye. Funny how you can come to appreciate those things after reading all types of horror stories.

The pictures help. Not what I expected, which is good as I expected much worse!

I can see the "up kick" in the tile at the transition.

Weird that it occurred. A capillary break is required, I wonder if he messed up putting the bead down and that's how the tiles got kicked up. Too large a bead or in the wrong spot?

Or the capillary break was properly done, but because of elevation issues where the substrate for the flat meets the substrate for the slope, those issues caused the upkick?

The sad thing is when the tiler saw the potential for the upkick, the tiler should have simply stopped. And honestly, if the upkick is caused by something in the substrate, it should have been caught and remedied before the first sheet of tile was even set.

I recommend you call quickdrain/proline and get patched through to their tech support:

Telephone: 1-866-998-6685
Telephone: 1-970-668-0805

I'd take a few more photos, including a few of close-ups of the tile at the drain.

Have the photos ready to email. Often times you can email the photo files to the tech that you are talking to so you have a common visual reference for the discussion. Ask about the proposed tile-over and how that will affect elevations at the drain with the grate insert, etc. They'll be able to tell you if adjustments can be made at the drain to match the new tile elevation, or if a tile over will simply bugger up the drain grate.

I'm not familiar enough with QD remediation to know if you can simply add a taller spacer under the drain grate/strainer to raise the strainer flush with the higher proposed tile overlay.

The conversations with tech support should give you a base of information for when you discuss remedies with your GC or tiler.

Personally, I don't do tile-overs in wet areas. I prefer to rip out and redo.

Good luck with it. Do report back if you can.

This post was edited by mongoct on Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 15:57

Thank you. I will get my photos in order and call Quickdrain in the morning and see what they advise. Once I speak to a tech, I will report back.

I just wanted to report back. After extensive email and phone calls with Quickdrain I came to the conclusion that the entire job was just not up to professional standards. I have confirmation in writing based on the photos I sent that the capillary break was installed completely wrong. I hired a high end tile and stone company to redo the whole thing, they have demoed the existing tile and pan and are rebuilding the pan with noble thick fabric like material, leveling the floors and the walls. It is expensive @ the rate of $1200 a day for 4 days to completely the shower pan and tile the walls and floor with schluetter trim.

Any advice on how to work out the pricing with the original contractor who did the carpentry himself and hired the tile sub? The tile was going to be $2500 for that bathroom. I am not sure on the labor he charged me for the pan, maybe around 2 grand. Do I deduct $4500 from my final invoice, plus tile, and then I absorb the difference in the higher cost of the new tile company?

First and foremost, I'm not a lawyer and there may be some on this forum with better or more correct advice. What follows is simply my opinion.

In general, the better way to start remediation would have been to give the GC a chance to correct the deficiency. Not that you have to actually let him. But just start a discussion.

You stop work. You show him the analysis you got from QD. You have a discussion.

On your end, your argument is along the lines that the person the GC hired to do the work did not do it IAW industry/manufacturer/product guidelines. The letter from tech support confirms that.

Your argument is that the GC himself failed to supervise the work and ensure that it was done IAW with the above.

Your want the job done, done right, and done yesterday. You desire is to bring in another crew that is familiar with the product and who can do the installation correctly.

THEN you quibble over nickles and dimes. Money spent versus money to be spent.

Now, your GC may simply fold and give you what you want. It depends on the size of the job he is working, and the relationship he has with the tile sub. His tile sub may do the same, depending on his relationship with the GC.

Or they may fight back.

The tiler's argument could be that he didn't get a chance to fix his work. The GC can have the same argument. And of course your argument is that they should have done it right the first time.

Right now, "as is", I'd say if you didn't even have a discussion with the GC about making it right and the possibility of bringing a new crew in, then all additional costs are on you. I know that sounds harsh, but that's generally the way small courts see these cases if it was to go to court.

Are you familiar with a Mechanic's Lien? If one of the people who did work on your house doesn't get paid, even through no fault of your own, that worker can sometimes place a lien on your property.

I don't want to get overly dramatic with the idea of a lien, but it's something to be aware of.

In an ideal world, the tiler would take no money for his labor. The GC would take no money for his labor and oversight of that portion of the work. The GC already offered to pay for new tile, that's to your favor. The idea of you absorbing the difference for the higher labor seems fair.

Once things are worked out, I recommend you get things in writing if you think there could be repercussions down the road.

ie, you and the GC work things out, you think things are settled. But if the tiler still thinks he should get paid for his work and the GC refuses to pay him, the tiler could get ticked off and file a lien on your home.

It'd be a good idea to get a Mechanics Lien Waiver and have any and all subs who do work on your house, to include your GC, sign it before funds are disbursed.

Again, the above words are just my opinion. Good luck and do report back.

Even those who do incorrect work are allowed to attempt to correct it before the job is taken away from them. If you did not allow that to happen, you will be very lucky to not face a lien from the first guy.

Good tile work generally doesn't come from the lowest bidder. Especially when you have expectations like you had. Why wasn't the high priced guy hired from the beginning instead of after the fact? If you hired them now on your own initiative then you've assumed the role of the GC here and assumed responsibility for the overall job and it's quality control. Who pays is who is in charge. Where was the GC in all of this? If he hired the initial tile person who screwed up, it was u to him to solve the problem. Unless you've been hiring everyone yourself all along and acting as the GC without knowing that you were assuming the responsibility for the whole job by doing so.