They are not "price fixed", but fall under UMRP, as do Miele and a couple of other high-end brands. UMRP has been argued all the way to the Supreme Court, which deemed it legal. UMRP has been discussed a lot on this forum, with proponents on both sides. I'll link a thread below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread about Wolf/Subzero Prices

Yes they are Price Fixed as are the others that akchicago mentioned.
Price fixed = Fair Traded (Now outlawed) = UMRP
"A Thorn by any other name is still------"
Why are fair trade laws against the law but not UMRP?
We have the "Finest Politicians Money Can Buy"!!!!!
(yes including our courts)
Gary

If you buy a discontinued but new subsero, or find one from a company that is going out of business, you can get good discounts. As long as it has not been registered or installed, the full warranty applies. If it is a showroom model, the warranty is halved to 1 full year from 2 full years. I called subzero several times with serial numbers of the ones I found to be certain that they were truly new and carried the full warranty.

Not any different than X-Box/PS3 prices

One dealer told me they could work a discount for Wolf or any of the price controlled lines. They are a very competitive single store with a long history. For Miele showed me price book listing 3 prices: MAP $2350, UMRP $2250 and minimum price $2100. They would do better.

Another big single store told me I would get a "rebate" of $225 off a 2900 Wolf product, so 7.75% off. The invoice would show list.

A multi-store chain told me no-way, fixed price. But his package price including JA + Wolf was lower.

I'm buying soon so I guess I'll see. For KitchenAid I'm seeing discounts from list of 24-27%, Jenn-Air 20%. Probably go with the KA for CD FD Fridg. The JA version costs $1000 more with the Euro handles I life, the pro handle JA is only $300 more.

I would love to see 20% off a Wolf product, but I don't think the dealer gets that kind of profit margin.

Be forewarned about sales people who wlll call you telling you that "there will be a price increase" in your SZ/Wolfe selection. I called the companies only to find there was no price increase!! There are some slimy sales people out there. I did lock in a price last spring on my SZ and got delivery just before Christmas.

While caveat emptor is always good advice, appliance co.s do have price increases in late Q4 or Q1 the following year so it really depends on what brand you are shopping and who you sales person is. Last year Gaggenau had roughly a 30% increase at end of year. If you were getting that stuff I'm sure you'd appreciate a phone call alerting you to that one, yes?

In this economy, I will tell Gag, Take your stuff and shove it. No reason they can't cut back and scrimp, like many of the rest of us are. We keep putting up with that and your kids and grandkids will find their money is just a joke! I'm gettin quotes to either enclose my patio or fence the yard, some of the quotes are a joke and I tell them so. I get all kinds of excuses, "Well we don't really price our services based on the economy, price of materials is going up, etc etc etc, I tell them I spend according to the economy, find better prices, or go on to the next customer---OVER and OUT!!!! Some quotes have been almost half of others----So anyway a "Wordie Way" of saying, "My Mamma Told Me, You Better Shop Around"!!!!

"At the end of the day the price is the price is the price."

Antss, not sure I follow all your logic...

On a Macro scale if the dealer makes a decent profit he can provide the level of service someone paying $9000 for a Subzero or $6000 for an oven would want. That profit might allow him to spend more time learning the product, more time selling, profit to stock popular models for faster delivery, so a happy customer.

Wolf offers a great extended warranty, 2 years P&L, 3 more years _all_ parts. That makes me feel good they stand behind their product. I like the specs better on the Miele products and prices are significantly lower, but no long warranty.

On a Micro scale I have one order to place and price is a factor. I just ask for the best price on the package of 4 appliances. It's up to the dealer to decide a price for me that fits his Macro goal. They seem to want to discount a lot. I live in a big metro area.

Also(in priority order) other .....
1. Return policy, 30 day free exchange or return for any reason wins. 5% restocking fee is ok, 20% no way. I have no way of really testing these appliances so it makes me feel good to know if I don't like it I can get somehting else.
2. DOA (or breaks within x days) policy, I would give them a chance to fix. But if my new Jenn-Air oven blows thermo fuse on first cleaning I may want to get another brand....
3. Other costs, e.g. extended warranty
4. Delivery, cost normally free, time windows, flexibility and other factors
5. Pickup old appliances and recycle properly

Most came back with prices close enough (total $10k) that for the dealer that best fit #1 and #2 I wasn't going to beat him up over $100's. One item under discussion caused him to see my other quotes and he noticed the differences and marked those down like $300 without my asking. He even wanted to make up for a 2% sales tax diff.

I was refering to the UMRP crwod. Those manuf. set the price of THEIR products. They'd like you to be a dealer but only under certain conditions that pose a reasonable chance of maintaining their brand and allowing you to make some money too. Many app. dealers are delving into the sketchy wold of car dealer accounting by selling you a miele/gaggenau/wolf/whatever at "A discount" but not really well not as far as the UMRP brands are concerned. They are still getting full price on their books sort of. At the end of the day it's incumbent on the seller to make sure he makes enough on all items on your invoice in order to pay for the actual units, overhead, and profit. If he doesn't have a accurate grasp on his overhead, and a sophisicated accounting program that tracks the same thing to 3 times to 3 different parties at three different prices AND someone to make sense of all of it in real terms, and charge enough money - all he's doing is delaying a collapse. How long a business or industry can sustain practices like this is tough to call. Car industry did it for nearly 50 years. Mortgage business didn't last so long. So do it to get by short term then mend their ways.

stay tuned.

Dodge- not everyone shops solely on price. With construction project it's especially hard to compare accurately because hardly anyone has a detailed set of plans AND specifications spelling out exactly the work to be done by all bidding the work. This is because that service cost a fair amt. of $$$ to produce before you even see the first stick of wood. So from one guy you might be getting a pine fence spaced however he feels that day nailed up with steel finish nails and another might be using clear cedar and stainless screws as their standard or basic fence. They are correct in that materials are going up ,especially quality ones and labor cost aren't really down either. Is your boss paying you less at work or customers/clients discounting your bill for services because they are in the same economy as you. Why should contractors be any different? I'm not harassing you for shopping around , but your tone seems a bit indignant because everyone is not cutting prices. If everyone cut prices there would just ensue a race to the bottom then everyone would complain their just isn't any choice or quality out there anymore. Then some smart enterprising fella would open up a quality outfit and charge double the going rate then a competitor would pop up and the race would head the other direction.

Do you really think you are going to get the same work for 1/2 the price? Doubtful - even the prima donnas are realistic in today's market and are not inflating their bills. It's just like anything else, there are different levels of quality prices and results for any given product or service. It's not all just overhead and profit that makes prices higher.

Anntss> I am comparing "Similar products" fencing or patio enclosure---decided to fence, it should not need a permit--I choose who I want on my property and a "City Inspector" ain't one of them!!!! When I ran my business, (Sales and Service of Scientific equipment, I did take the economy into account in pricing my service agreements. I also took the customer's current financial situation into account--Yes if they were having a tuff time, I would discount my price to them or help out any way I could.
Social security informed me, no cost of living increase this year. I own 2 rentals, I cut the rent $300 on one, cause my tenant (a builder) is having a hard time and his wife lost her job. Our other tenant also asked that the rent be lowered--albiet a smaller amount $50 and we accomodated her.
So Here we have the figures from the US Govt (yea I know they are Bologna) that claim "US price index did not rise for 2009-2010, Hence no SS raise,
Then we have companies like Gaggy increasing prices 30%.
It's no skin off my nose, My kitchen is done and I dont expect to replace anything in my life time, but I still do care about the other folks here--well at least the ones that hafta budget, and try to make informed & Intelligent buys.
I call a "Spade a Spade".
Anybody increasing prices 30% in this economy are "Greed Mongers", and I sure hope Kitchenaid or somebody else comes out with that "Steamy oven"--that some of our "Well Endowed users" just cant live without (Gaggy) and clobbers them and puts them in their place---Out of The US!!!!!

Gary

One thing to note is that though they are not the only brands, SZ and Wolf are made/assembled in the US, if that's a positive for you.

If you want a discount, floor models and scratch & dent are your best bets, though many distributors do have rebates of some type running right now.

I've spent the past month trying to decide on what range to buy. In the process I visited four authorized Wolf Subzero dealers in central NJ. All quoted exactly the same price their ranges. None of them seemed interested in throwing in anything to sweeten the deal. None of them even mentioned that Wolf had a $500 dollar rebate on the 30" range or that Wolf is offering a free extension/glide rack on DF ranges. When I mentioned the free glide rack to one Wolf salesman he retorted, "I don't know anything about that. But if it is true it is a good deal for you but not for us."

When my range did arrive with the wrong color knobs (black, not red) I was told that if I wanted red I would have to bring the black ones back to the store to exchange for the red, picking them up myself (no offer to mail the correct knobs). Given that this is the most expensive purchase I've ever made outside of my car, I guess I expected a bit more warmth or TLC. (Frankly, I think I've gotten more love buying a 200 dollar dehumidifier at Sears.)

But maybe I'm just out of my league with this high-end consumption game. My complaints are about the sales reps, not the Wolf corporation (which makes a great stove and has already shown great customer service when I've called them in Wisconsin). I get the feeling that Wolf SZ dealers are just not that "hungry," even in this economy. Have any of you had experiences like this?

Well, You ran into order takers, "They haven't a Clue" as to what good salesmanship is. I wudda walked, after giving them some "Sign language" (LOL). That dealer certainly did not earn your business. We bought everything at Pacific Sales and received excellent treatment; They discounted xtra on non MSRP stuff (Jenn-air Fridge) Electrolux Wine cooler (wasn't MSRP 3 years ago). This year we bought the Electrolux Icon Induction cooktop and alto our former saleslady had retired, The new folks were just as helpful!
Later we bought a ToTo from them and also a 40 inch Sony LCD for the Master Bed and bath.
I did deal with a company that operated the way your dealer did. I did it cause it was the only semi-circle cooktop made. Must have taken 20 calls to finally get it delivered, It started having problems after the first year, called and called and called some more--I had to buy a $190 board (even thou it was in warranty) Being an Electronic Engineer, I was pretty sure that was not the problem, and sure nuff It didn't fix it--So We trashed it and the company---They are outta business now as should the dealers be that you dealt with!!!!!
Anyway, better luck on the rest of your purchases!!!!

Gary

dodge - I wasn't trying to pick on ya or single you out, only the "I gotta have a deal cause the economy is in the tank" mentality. I've got nothing against it per se, only that I hate people that are put off because all businesses don't give a break / discount these days. I encourage people to shop around to find the best product / service to fill their need & desire at the time. It's not always the cheapest or fastest, nor is it the most expensive or custmor wait time solution. Every case is different.

SS has been a fraud for at least a decade and nothing personal - but you didn't deserve or warrant a discount under any rational accounting system applied to an payout scheme like that. It's gonna be the next mortgage crisis, followed by the new health care ponzi scheme.

francoise - this is exactly the behavior that the suits think UMRP is supposed to eliminate. At least the fellow was candid/honest. This still leaves you in the lurch though. Over time, I suspect dealers like this will fall to attrition. It's a tough business to sustain on 10 points.

"I've got nothing against it per se, only that I hate people that are put off because all businesses don't give a break / discount these days."
Look at the price of houses, most have or are dropping like a rock. There is NO UMRP on houses. The price reflects the current market and economic condtions.
This is because there is a lot of competion in the housing market--no price fixing etc etc.
Due to the fact that our govt shirked what I think is one of it's few wothwhile functions, (Enforcing competiton), companies are and have been buying up the competiton, rather than compete. Normally prices would fall when demand falls, but due to the severe lack of competiton in the appliance sector, companies keep their prices fixed or even raise them, A _la Gaggie. We see this in the Auto market too, they would rather go out of business or go to Italy, than quit playing games with rebates or this or that.
Sorry about your hatred, but I HATE to see companies taking advantage of ppl, especially now, cause they are able to "Hold On" due to those in our society "Who Must Have" at any price!!!(I admit I bought a real fancy cooktop 3 years ago and ignored price as I thought it fit the motiff of our kitchen--but that was almost 4 years ago now and the economy was better back then).

Gary

Is your boss paying you less at work or customers/clients discounting your bill for services because they are in the same economy as you.

Are contractors really this out of touch with reality, that they don't know that people's actual paychecks are going down, their hours are being cut, and customers are demanding reductions? Really?

Not sure who or even if it was directed to someone in particular. My earlier post answered that (just in case)
Wife hasn't got a raise in 2 years now. My tenant just imformed me the dishwasher , about 4 years old took a dump, apparently the heater is smoking, so rather that fix it , I will replace it, and you can bet your last buck, the guy that gives me the best deal, is the guy that gets the sale, (I don't buy the cheapest, but I will look for one that is discounted. I suspect Keynes (an economist) would be turning over in his grave today, if He say what happened today to his "Supply and Demand Theory". It changed to this "We Demand this price"!!!!and some of us "Wimp out and pay it"

GAry

I guess I should have been more clear. Gaggenau's huge increase was announced in Q4 of 2008, not "last" year. Still was bad timing in light of last year's "crisis" but they are still around and aren't going anywhere or announced any plans to lower their pricing structure.

Like I said or alluded to before - not everyone is a customer.

I think you are just wrong about these co.s taking advantage of people. No on is coercing you into that Wolf DF range or Gaggenau steam oven, heck neither are anywhere close to necessities. Feel a range is a necessity and don't like that you can't get a "deal" on a Wolf ect? You easily have 2 dozen choices of manufacturers of ranges across lots of price points and they don't have UMRP so the dealers' can charge you whatever the feel like. It's not like 70's-80's Russia where G.U.M's appliance department had 5 ovens in total in the department. They were all the same, including the one in there for service, and the price was not negotiable, you want it? It's an arm and a leg and a wheelborrow full of rubles too. It's not taking advantage of people if you are meeting a need. Should Rolls stop selling or lower prices cars because all American's can't afford one or the economy is in the crapper? Their sales and profits are up.

Re: Chrysler. You can bet Nardelli didn't/doesn't want them outa business, the lynchpin in that scenario is that the union has a contract which represents the the bulk of trouble and are unwilling to give in order to make that entity work lest it have severe ramification on the other two's worker bees paychecks.

Part of capitalism is rooted in "taking advantage" of the situation. There's a diff. between that and really sticking to somebody though. A high price to change a faucet is not unethical, charging twice your normal high rate to change it because that faucet is spraying water all over the place right now and there's not a plumber around for 50 miles is something different.

Marcolo - no, contractors are no more in or outa touch with reality than are doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, auto mechanics, bankers, airline pilots or other service providers. Have any of those lowered their fees as a group? Heck no, I'm sure a few have, just like there are some that raised their fees also. Their "potential" customers are the same workers whose paychecks you say are being cut, reduced or eliminated and are being chased by contractors. Also, not everyone's loosing ground , some are rising just as in the go go days we had people loosing hours and jobs.

Maybe I missed it Antss, but you have my curiosity up.
Are you an appliance retailer?
Thanks!!

Gary

At my favorite dealer I've got a great salesman, it's hard to get him to stop talking. He does say a lot of useful stuff, among it....

The higher end products are mostly non-stock so there is not a lot of money in inventory that needs a % return. So it more comes down to $/unit not % profit. Without UMRP the discounted price of a Wolf/Subz would be driven down to the same $ unit profit of a midrange like KitchenAid. But it does tend to take more sales effort. So the salesman is better off selling more midrange units and make the same $ per unit.

With UMRP they get the salesman more profit so _he_ finds selling them more attractive. The consumer pays for a better experience.

Discovered website yaleappliance . com with an interesting blog. Wish that store was near me.

the hope is the customer gets a better experience, but as francoise illustrates it ain't always so.