I agree with lboise that the hysteria over the criticism that an oven doesn't have a telescoping rack are getting a bit well, hysterical. A telescoping rack is hardly in the realm of automatic squeezers, basters and whatever else. James, has a point that telescoping racks have their limits of appeal too, and that it is hardly unfair that a vendor doesn't offer this feature. However, momotom has perhaps valid reasons to be disgruntled and James' and antss' reasons for dismissing that she might find it useful are fairly preposterous. That said, here's my reckoning on it. I dont' have a miele oven but I do have an oven with a (one) telescoping rack at the very bottom. - 6.5 times out of 10, it makes no difference to me whether my oven has a telescoping rack or not. Either coz I'm not using that rack or that there is nothing unique about the pan I'm using that makes me appreciate the telescoping vs. the not esp since I want to get into and out of a hot oven asap. - 1 times out of 10, it is a bit of a nuisance with the extra sliding paraphernalia which is certainly a slightly bigger deal to remove than a plain and simple rack which slides right out. At those times, I'm very grateful that only the bottommost rack is this telescoping affair and not the other racks because I seldom need to "move" the bottom rack out of the way (since the bottommost rack is never really in the way of a cooking process) but I often need to move the other racks. - 1.5 times out of 10, I'm glad of it - either because I've got something heavy and slippery going in and out of the oven or I'm cooking something delicate in a water bath and boy is it ever handy to have the ever so smooth rack slide all the way out so I can access said item to remove it with no sloshing or no stiction/friction to contend with with a heavy pan on the rack which comes out 3/4 of the way. - Another 1 out of 10 times, I wish I could have the telescoping rack on at least the second rack too coz most ovens and most recipes want you to cook at the center of the oven rather than the bottom most rack. But then again, see 2. Terribly scientifically loggged as you can see. ;-) So, on the whole I'm glad my oven has a telescoping rack. BUT it is nothing that would be a make or break deal for me. But that's just me. Lastly, antss, while I many many times find that your observations are particularly sound and logical, this last post is more mind-bogglingly servile and genuflecting of the vendor than any company needs or should expects. A consumer hardly needs to make it their business to ensure that a proprietor not be troubled or disturbed with a recommendation. (1) If Miele receives a groundswell of mail of any kind, smart money would bet that they (a) would be pleased out of their gourds that they have engendered that much enthusiasm and (b) would make haste to address the complaint. (2)HOW could Miele or ANY company "know what the marketplace wants" if said marketplace is not to send them the corresp.???? This makes no sense. On the latter, sometimes people here forget that while Miele makes good products, that it isn't a charitable venture - this is NOT run out of the Vatican, folks. It is a profit making enterprise. Their motives are the same as any other company - to maximize return on their investments. James and antss etc. might feel that they, and by extension anyone else, must need only what Miele already provides because Miele has effectively told 'em so, but I can assure you that "the marketplace" is not so easily condescended to. I love my Miele gizmos and appliances but, believe me, I've got a list of what is good and what is not so good about them on each of 'em. It's not about freedom of speech, it's independence of thought. & yes, I recognize that you are not obliged to have that either. lboise, I wouldn't admit that on a public forum. :-)

My Optima had the top rack with the left piece that lifts out vs older DW with one-piece top rack. I removed the piece once. Most important to me was that back of the bottom rack that folds down. I also like that the plate-guard rack comes out so I can do a whole rack of pots. What I especially liked was the new config of the second rack, which is flatter in the newer models and easier to load (less sliding around). Also, I'd want that center one adjustable (both mine adjust -- it may be standard). I do use that. I think it's smart to focus on Express. I don't have it on the older machine and it's the one thing I miss. I also use china/crystal a lot but not everyone needs that. I wouldn't pay extra for delay start, anything more than the basic cycles plus Express, the whole sensor business and ultra quiet when regular quiet was just fine. Optima was once described by antss as the "sweet spot" and whatever the current equivalent is would be the same.

As trailrunner says, there are recipes on the website including one for turkey. Re the probe -- it's excellent for large pieces like roasts and needs to be inserted all the way in. I used autoroast for the turkey last year. The way I cooked turkey forever is to jump start it at 425 for 20 minutes, then lower the temperature to 325 for the remainder of the cooking. I tent the top with foil after the first 20 minutes. That's what autoroast does more or less. I usually do a 12 pound turkey, which always was done in about 3-1/2 hours. But the 325 is very gentle on autoroast, I baste and that loses oven heat and it takes 15 minutes or so to come back up to temperature. So with the basting and time lag to return to the right temperature, the turkey was taking too long. So I adjusted the temp up to 335 for the duration, which is my suggestion unless you don't plan to baste. My oven is very accurate and I've done the same recipe for 20 years. If this is the first time you're doing a big turkey, I'll make some suggestions to help it along. I remove mine from the fridge before I go to bed and put it in the laundry room sink -- not stuffed. My laundry room is cold -- 62 to 68 degrees. You don't want to do that in an 80 degree kitchen but if you have a colder room (my sister in law used her screen porch) it will help. I don't put raw egg in the stuffing and I stuff right before roasting. So I leave the stuffing out overnight also -- again in a cool room (62-68 degrees). (If you need a mushroom/sourdough stuffing recipe I'm glad to share, send me an email). I do chicken right on the rack but use a roasting pan for a big turkey. Last year, I got the probe into the turkey leg first then connected it in the oven -- either way it's tricky since something is hot. I managed to get it into the thickest part of the leg, not touching the bone. I'd be interested in what others have to say but with an 18-20 pound turkey I think you're looking at 5-1/2 to 6 hours of cooking time with the autoroast at 425-335 provided the turkey and stuffing are not refrigerator-cold and ajusting for the quickest possible basting 4 times during the cooking (unless you have someone strong to take the turkey out of the oven to baste). You could call Miele consumer help people to verify that.

I wanted to add that on the left side of the top rack, I removed the little fold down shelf-thingies along with the bracket that held them. My glasses fit better now, but barely. Our coffee mugs slide off, as do my glass measuring cups. It really seems to be designed for espresso cups, and those little drinking glasses you see in Europe. Anything with a larger diameter just does not fit/stay in place. If I could still buy the old rack and have it work with the redesigned water "pipe" I'd do it. If you look in the manual at the loading instructions, they show two layers of little coffee cups on the left side. No one I know uses those very often. I can't even see any of my European relatives using more than one or two a day. Maybe they're targetting people who own that built in coffee maker. DH hypothesizes that they made the areas where you put the cups steeper so that water would run off the tops better. Most of my cups and glasses are pretty flat on the bottom, so I don't know if it does better on that count vs. the old one. As you can tell, the DW is a hot topic over here. LOL. We keep trying to figure out what drove them to select such a poor design. I have to say of all the appliances I purchased for my new kitchen, the DW is the one I like least, whereas in our old house the Miele DW was one of the top two (other being Wolf ovens.) I have multiple complaints, most having to do with the racks. (The other is the control panel and having to click OK so often - can't figure that one out either.)