Urban container gardening and squirrel control for tomatoes

17 years ago

So, I just joined this site this evening and yes, before posting, I did a search.

This is the situation and to give you a little background, I live in an area of Brooklyn, NY called Park Slope and do a great deal of container gardening on a deck that is approximately 250 sq. ft.

I have two 5 ft tall Brandywine tomato plants and a 4 foot tall Roma that are constantly ravaged by a vicious band of marauding urban squirrels that have prevented me from having a single piece of fruit this year, despite the beautiful amounts of buds and new fruit on the plants. I have tried everything in my arsenal to no avail-- I should note that I do not use chemicals on my plants only natural ingredients, cayenne pepper around the pots, spraying the leaves and fruit with hot pepper wax, dried blood on the topsoil and my tried and true methods from my previous homes in urban areas of the south - mixing habaneros in between the tomato plants and placing them on all four corners of the deck where the squirrels enter and sweet gum tree pricker balls on the top soil all to no avail. I even found a walmart (no comments) in Texas that delivered an air compressed bb gun to my home in brooklyn, but after a few uses, in an urban area, my neighbours complained about the gun shots and frankly, I can't blame them. My last resort is to find a super soaker squirt gun on line and fill it with habanero oil and water and just blast them when they approach the deck.

Any other suggestions I'm overlooking? I would like to get at least one tomato to enjoy for myself this season considering the love and care I've put into this. It's strange, they don't bother the yellow and green pepper plants, or any of the herbs for that matter, just my tomatoes.

Is there anyone out there who can help me??

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Comments (35)

kevin_l
17 years ago
When I had a deck at my apartment in Astoria I used to knock the squirrels off with a high powered pellet rifle. You couldn't really get away with that today though. My other suggestion would be to get a motion detector that you can hook up to a sprinkler. When the squirrels come around and set of the detector, they get hosed down and run off. Not as permanent as the rifle, but still works.
korney19
17 years ago
Bird netting. Holes are about 3/4 to 1" square. Available in various sizes, I think the one I have is 14ft x 14ft. Drape over the plants or get more complicated and build posts to fasten to and make "walls & ceiling."

Hope this helps.

Mark
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As for giant size containers for tomatoes: In 30 years of off-and-on container growing (I prefer square footing in dirt if I can) I've never resorted to such huge containers and my tomatoes have always yielded more than I could use. Possibly putting them in extra-large containers like that would have yielded even more, but when you already have an excess, a larger excess isn't necessary. I usually only grow one of each type of tomato I want when growing in containers. I grow only determinate types for the past 20 years; before that I most often planted indeterminate types and have found them not to be worth the trouble. Again - when you already get more than you can use, an excess of excess is really not required. If you're growing indeterminate types then a larger container like that would be useful just from the point of view of not wanting your 8' tall vines to tip the container over. But it is not NECESSARY to growing plenty of good tomatoes. as for 4' long tomato roots - possibly, if you count vertical growth. But I personally have not ever had a tomato put down any significant amount of roots past about 18" - that could be deeper in sandy soil, but not the clay loams I have typically gardened in. And yes, I HAVE dug them up to check root depth. I used to be a fan of deep planting of new tomato plants. I would dig, double dig, "work in organic matter". (NOTE: Don't do that. Let the worms do it for you. Encourage worms to work for you by planting cover crops and deep mulching when cropping). Then when the bed was ready I would dig a hole deep enough to bury the entire plant except for the top couple of pairs of leaves, pinch off all leaves and branches on the way up, and bury the plant to its eyeballs. The plants always seemed to grow just fine, but one day I came across an article that stated that planting tomatoes this way wasn't very useful because anything below about 10" to 12" just ended up never putting out any roots and sort of amputates itself off, and it's only the upper part of the stem that roots out. This doesn't really HARM the plant generally, but it doesn't exactly speed the development. So the proposed method of planting instead is trench planting, fairly shallow comparatively. Humph humph, sez I, generations of tomato-planting lore can't be so far wrong! So the next year I planted half my tomatoes the "traditional" way (at least for my family) and half the doubtless silly and unhelpful new-fangled way. And sure enough, the (relatively shallow) trench-planted tomatoes were sturdier, bloomed and fruited earlier, had fewer of the few problems I typically ever have with tomatoes, handled both torrential downpours and dry spells better, and eventually yielded more. When I dug up the plants at the end of the year, sure enough, those traditional, deep-planted tomatoes had only rooted out of the upper 8" or so of the stem (the rest being the existing root ball). In many cases the perfectly preserved lower parts of the stem, including the original peat pots, were still to be found, like archaeological evidence in deeper layers. When I say "fairly shallow" I mean that I never dig down more than 10" to 12" and plant the plant at an angle or on its side in the trench so that just the top 2 leaves are showing. I support the stem with dirt (backfill under the stem when it's at an angle) and bury the entire stem, but no part of that stem is any deeper than about 8" tops. (remember not to count the rootball, just the length of the stem, which is usually 6" to 8" by the time the ground where I lived was warm enough to put tomatoes out). The truth is that the vast majority of root growth for a tomato in the ground (not in sandy soil but in moderately good clay loam) is in the top 12" of the soil. Tomatoes growing naturally (eg in the wild) sprawl, and root along their stems - eg ROOT SHALLOWLY. You'd be hard pressed to find roots below 18" to 24", and not many at that depth. (Again, ignoring sandy soils, which I have never grown in). Now container growing NOT EQUAL growing in the ground. In the super light container mix that one should be using in a container roots undoubtedly do penetrate deeper. But tomato plants do not need 4' of soil depth for proper root growth. They are a relatively shallowly rooted plant. Now clovers, by comparison, are a different matter. A well established stand of some kinds of clover can have roots extending 5' or even more - at least one variety has had measured root length of 20'. Keep in mind though that that's total root length, a lot of which is horizontal - so 5' long roots do not necessarily extend 5' DEEP, and 20' roots CERTAINLY do not. Clovers are, however, a very deeply rooted plant. That's why (when I was still dirt-gardening) I liked to use clover as a cover crop when preparing a new bed - first cover with cardboard to kill turf (weighted so it won't blow away of course) from fall into the next spring. Then dig out the dead turf and compost it, do just enough tilling to break up the top 8" or so of soil, broadcast seed buckwheat, mow, broadcast seed again, usually I could manage 3 buckwheat crops a season. The following year till again (now much easier due to the organic matter from the buckwheat stems and roots and incursions of earth worms) and sow a good clover. Let that go at least a year, two if I could manage it, mowing I think in the early spring (it depended on what clover I was using). One more visit with the tiller and I had a great garden bed. I would switch between 2 or at most four plots (depending on where I was at the time and how much space I had), using cover crops on the fallow bed(s). Anyway. I don't dirt garden anymore, I am just not physically able and my son has zero interest. So it's pretty much containers all the way for me these days. Though when we're no longer in rental properties I would very much like to have a small square foot garden for things like icebox watermelon and other space-hungry things that just don't do well in containers. Garlic, some perennial herbs. Anyway anyway. I don't think there is anything WRONG with planting in such large containers, but at my age, at my size (I used to be ALMOST 5' 2" and have definitely reached that point in my life where shrinking begins, if it isn't already well advanced, LOL!) and in my physical condition - those containers are far to large for me to manage. I get more tomatoes than I can handle from much smaller, easier to manage containers. I don't grow indeterminate varieties so I don't need the extra anchoring effect from such a large container. And I won't throw away potting mix after one use, won't use it unsterilized more than one season, and can't handle the weight and quantity just one of those trash cans holds. It isn't NECESSARY to use such large containers. If you want to and can manage it, or if you are determined to grow an indeterminate variety in a container, then more power to you. It sure isn't likely to HURT anything (excluding possibly your back, LOL!). But it isn't NECESSARY. People grow good tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets. Personally I think that's too small, I think the earthbox type containers are too small as well, but lots of people grow good tomatoes in pretty small containers. I like a container that's at least 16" deep and at least that high and wide. That has been plenty big for the non-determinate tomatoes I most frequently grow. Now if you're after beefsteaks - you can grow in that size container but you PROBABLY won't get optimal size fruit. Most of the better beefsteaks (IMHO) are indeterminate varieties (in fact probably ALL of them are) so that type of tomato would benefit from a larger container. I don't think there's really anything wrong with giant sized containers, I just know they aren't necessary. Indeterminate or large-fruited tomatoes would benefit from a larger container though I can't say you would have to go THAT large - but they are certainly cheap, so why not, if you can physically handle a container that size and tomato vines 10' up in the air. But don't get scared and think you HAVE to grow in containers that big. Any indeterminate variety, and many determinate varieties as well for that matter (if you don't mind regular pruning and redirecting of vines) can be grown in a MUCH smaller container. Actually, taking one of those trash can containers and cutting the top off (so what's left is 16" to 18" deep) wouldn't be a bad idea either, since you can usually find those size cans for around $8 to $10. That would certainly be easier to handle. I may have to try that after we get moved. It'd probably make an excellent potato "bucket" too.
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One year later, and time for a report. In the past couple of months, I've caught eight fox squirrels, and moved them out of reach. That's about half what I caught last year. I have had zero squirrel garden damage this year, BTW. The fact that I've caught only eight (about half that of last year) means to me that I had a serious overpopulation of them last year, and that culling made a big difference. But as expected, the population grew in the spring, though never got as bad as it was last year. We had a very wet spring, and the winter acorn crop was enormous. As a result, I only caught a few in May and June. They just weren't that hungry for my bait. But just in the last two days I caught FIVE! Wham. Wham. Wham. Wham. Wham. The nuts are running out, I guess. As of now, I go outside, and I hardly see any of them at all in my yard. As I've learned, the repopulation/dispersal rate of urban squirrels is very slow. In a given year, these squirrels don't just migrate from one yard to the next. They just don't do it. I consider them cleaned out of my yard until next spring, when I'll dust off the trap and snatch a few more.
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HoosierCheroKee
17 years ago
For the Brandywine sized tomatoes, would it help to sock the fruit at breaker stage in old stockings to let them ripen? Or pick the fruit at breaker stage and let them ripen indoors?

Other than the wire netting and pellet guns (and do your neighbors have a legal complaint ... or is it just their "moral" indignation?) you might try a rat terrier ... but they're a lot noisier than pellet guns.

I have rabbit, bird, and squirrel problems too but not to the extent that requires eradication yet. Besides, it isn't squirrel fricasse season for another month ... but they are gettin' fatter by the week.

If your problem is epidemic, doesn't it bother your neighbors too ... or are you the only one feeding the squirrels tomatoes?

Bill
keithaxis
17 years ago
i would put one of those electric dog fences around the area and unplug when you need to work within the safety fence...

I see so many people with critters eating their veggies. How come I never have them eat my veggies? Is it that I live in the foothills where the critters can find much more to eat? I mean each week I see deer in my yard (they do eat rose leaves and raspberry leaves) possums, squirrels, rackoons and have never once had a tomato touched (50 plants)...I would assume maybe living in the country these animals and critters have better things to eat than garden veggies or fruit....
daylilydude
17 years ago
Ok now you have done it my stupid red-neck side has come out and now i'm gonna show it to you all! I bought one of those plastic owls at walmart and i drilled a 1" hole from side to side and i put a 3 ft. broom handle thru it and i attached a 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" peice of black plastic on each side so when the wind blows it looks like the wings are moving and no more problems now my cat wont even go to the garden ! now you do have to move it around about every 3 or 4 days but its better than losing tomatoes so now you see what ya'll made me do (LOL).And if being stupid means i dont lose my tomatoes than call me stupid but i'll have all my maters.
Richard
feldon30
17 years ago
Squirrels are smart. They'll figure out that ain't a real owl in a week or two.
daylilydude
17 years ago
Well mine has been there since april and its now aug.no problems yet but i do live in the sticks i have a little over 5 acres so if need be i do have one other way!(LOL)
HoosierCheroKee
17 years ago
Richard,

Maybe yer backwoods squirrels jest ain't as smart as them suave, slick, urbanite New York City squirrels.

Bill
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
17 years ago
Posted by hoosiercherokee IN6 Richard,
"Maybe yer backwoods squirrels jest ain't as smart as them suave, slick, urbanite New York City squirrels.
Bill"

But if you take out the label "Made in China" on the bottom you can even fool New York smart squirrels.

dcarch :-)
kangell_gw
17 years ago
Oh, do I feel your pain! They are actually eating my chili peppers too! Actually, knocking them off, maybe taking a nibble, then leaving them. I've only had a few cayennes (out of 6 plants) actually make it to maturity.

I've tried the arsenal too...fox urine, cayenne pepper, pepper wax. I have a fake fox on order, but they'll figure it out.

Second floor deck, so sprinkler solution would be a pain. I think I'll look into the electric fence idea...
gw:brooklyn-slope
17 years ago
thanks for all your thoughts on this issue. I got home today, and yet again, the tree rats had done some damage. In response, I am not the only one with this problem, my other neighbours are struggling and those who object do so because it's a noise issue- scares the kids, etc. They could care less as long as I don't frighten the neighbourhood. Although I'm not sure, I pretty sure it's illegal - something about posession of a false fire arm, hence the reason they talked to me rather than calling the cops. Not to mention, my senator, Chuck, lives across the way and well, that just puts a damper on the eradication.

So, I think I'll try the bird netting and possibly the motion detector.

Thanks for all your help! I'll keep you posted.
ozmantis
17 years ago
I am old enough to remember the Beverly Hillbillies. Don't squirrels make a good stew LOL
You could leave some of the stew made with aforemention squirrel,and some of your beloved tomatoes on the deck. The others would see what they were in for, and do double time back over the fence. Just a thought. :-)
delta_charlie
17 years ago
Hi brooklyn-slope and the group.

"So, I think I'll try the bird netting and possibly the motion detector."

The squirrels might chew through plastic bird netting, I'm sure steel chicken wire would keep them out (use the small 1 inch size). Maybe you could rig up some type of encloser that would not look too bad???

Hope this helps, DC
mikec4w
17 years ago
Squirrls are tough little buggers.
I have never had them raid my garden though.....
I fight with them all winter with the bird feeders.
WOODCHUCKS are the buggers i fight with all summer in the garden. they take 1 bite out of the tomatoes and leave them.... what a pain....
reginacw
17 years ago
The birdseed with capsacin all over the seed works great in my feeders. My squirrel/chipmunk problem disappeared in about a week.

But if the cayenne oil isn't working on the tomato plants...that's bad.
donn_
17 years ago
Use the air rifle on Chuck S., and chicken wire cages on the 'maters.
mikec4w
17 years ago
i find if i just put thistle seed out for the gold finches the squirrls stay away. I feed them all year & it is worth it to see them in those hidious summer colors!!!
dilbert
17 years ago
Has anyone tried rat traps (the kind that look like big mouse traps)?
brooklyn941
17 years ago
I'm now in Prospect Park South, with a yard and, surprisingly, I've had no problems with the squirrels. But, previously, I had the same set up as you: A 250 square foot roof deck in Brooklyn Heights. The only thing that worked was hav-a-heart traps. I put a bit of peanut butter on foil and caught, I believe, sixteen squirrels during the season. The squirrels have to be released several miles from where they've been captured (if you've got a car, try to take them to a place separated from your home by a major road). Squirrels are territorial and will find their way back to your garden if you release them too close to home. So, it's probably best not to release them on the other side of Prospect Park, when they can just scamper back to you. Best of luck. Just don't release them in my neighborhoood!
trudi_d
17 years ago
I'd try a RoboDog, it will certainly keep you out of trouble.

RoboDog
coolbythecoast
17 years ago
Have you tried spraying with buttermilk? I have some success with deer and ground squirrels.
oldroser
17 years ago
Wire netting the only sure fire method. That idea of an electric dog fence sounds good but won't work - note that the dog wears a collar that responds to the signal. Putting a collar on the squirrels isn't a very practical idea.
zabby17
17 years ago
brooklyn slope,

There exists a commercial motion detector sprinkler that worked really well for me when I had an urban garden and marauding raccoons (I swear Toronto's raccoons wear gang colours; they didn't content themselves to raiding my garden and compost but actually ripped through window screens to raid my apartment kitchen!!)

I can't attest personally to its efficacy with squirrels (maybe they like getting sprayed, the little *&%$()&ers), but it works well and was easy to set up.

It's called the Scarecrow and you can get it various places but Lee Valley Tools has one of the best prices and excellent customer service --- I've posted the link. (Hey, I see they have them redneck plastic owls, too! ;-))

The sprinkler saved my corn from the coons and kept them from making a mess of my compost. Though one year the local raccoon family numbered ten, and when the young 'uns got to the teen phase the sheer number of them made 'em a nuisance even with the Scarecrow; one would set it off, then run away, and another would run up to it, and get chased away, etc., till by the time all nine kids had tried it the first one was cocky and ready to try again, so the thing was going off all night. At that point we resorted to the Have-A-Hart, and relocated one or two of the family each morning for a week till they were all reunited in a ravine in another part of town. Even relocating wildlife is illegal in Toronto, mind you, but I have no regrets. It was a last resort!

My friends back in T.O. with herbs & peppers on their deck resorted to building a chicken-wire enclosure (the "herb sanctuary") to keep squirrels out; it isn't the handsomest thing in the world but it does the job.

THeir other pots, out of the sanctuary, are mulched with river rock, which keeps the squirrles from digging in them to bury nuts.

Hope you find something that works! I salute anyone who grows food in an urban setting. Good for you.

(Now I have moved to a very small town surrounded by farms and woods, and do you know, I have FAR less trouble with wildlife than when I was in downtown Toronto???)

Zabby

Here is a link that might be useful: Lee Valley Scarecrow
chalstonsc
17 years ago
Try spraying Garden Safe (brand) "Fungicide3" .... non-toxic extract of neem oil...they don't seem to like the smell and/or taste
doof
17 years ago
I liked the rat terrier idea. A small yappy terrier would do just fine.

I have never had a squirrel problem. (Just gophers and crows, here.) But I might throw out a thought. How about poison? You know they like tomatoes. Anything else? Take a tomato or some other tasty looking squirrel delicacy, but inject it with some rat poison first.
al_apeno
16 years ago
I've heard of people using cayenne or habanero peppers to keep squirrels away from tomato plants. How exactly do you apply the pepper?
jenny_in_se_pa
16 years ago
There have been several ways suggested including crushing the dried peppers until they are like a dust and then sprinkling it on and around the plants (must reapply after rain) - OR- you would soak it (preferably the actual pulped or processed peppers but some use the flakes) in water, let it steep for a bit, strain, add a couple drops of liquid soap, shake, dilute, and then spray on the plants. You would want to test a small section of the plant first to make sure it isn't phytotoxic (causing a burn on the plant) and also do it when it is overcast. May still have to reapply not long after rain.
bill-inpnw
16 years ago
I feel for you. seems like you aren't adverse to terminating the varmints. since you know how they are getting onto the deck, could you build a funnel type of device to make them go a certain way and the put a snare in the opening. That way you don't have the "gun" nor the noisy dog issues. come home, pick up the dead squirrel and cook'm or trash'm.

You can do a search online for the proper size snare.

Bill
wamaterhead
16 years ago
Put some TEA TREE OIL on the outside of the pots! My dog hates it as it smells very strong. He stays away from anything that has it on it. I'll bet the Squirrels would hate it too. It's non-toxic and can be bought in most grocery stores. Otherwise....OPEN FIRE with the pellet gun and take care of business. The Owl thing works too!
kubotabx2200
16 years ago
Them's good eatin'

-- Jethro Bodine
bill-inpnw
16 years ago
Here is a neat little trick for squirrels I found on the web.

Here is a link that might be useful: squirrel snare
schwankmoe
16 years ago
my rooftop container garden (park slope/prospect heights) was getting ravaged by squirrels this year, so i built frames around everything and put plastic chicken wire all over it. kinda overkill, but i'll be damned if squirrels ruin my tomato crop this year.
troykd
16 years ago
You'll need 4 or 5 squirrels to make a stew. They're kinda greasy but not to bad with corn bread. Yee ha.
yardenman
16 years ago
Concrete Wire Cages (CRW) around the tomatoes. Removable chicken wire barrier around the cages to keep the squirrels out.

Have-A-Heart medium size cages with chunky peanut butter on the trip-lever. Barrel of water. Drown the squirrels.
Into the garbage bag...
triple_b
16 years ago
slingshots are silent...and deadly.

Urban container gardening and squirrel control for tomatoes

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