OOH⦠Melissa, I like this map!, thank you. I stand corrected. The technology is there; but I can see where confusion is created. When I plug in my zip code using the non-interactive map, I am listed as being in zone 8b, which some suppliers seem to recognize as zone 8 . This could be what suppliers are doing; in fact I know that is what J&P does, they just plug a zip code into the USDA map and voila. When I utilize the interactive map, I can click on my cross streets and actually all of the surrounding areas near my neighborhood for miles which are zone 9 too. It is likely that the mountainous areas miles away have the same zip code and thus impact the USDA zone? Dianne, for the past 14 years, I have only known this area to be zone 9, and argued with J&P about 12 years ago regarding the same topic. I agree, and It can be frustrating. I will continue to insist upon the correct shipment dates or decline order placement. Maybe someday soon, inconsistencies or whatever the issue is will be rectified. Rant over⦠thank you:) This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 0:31

Hi SCG Sorry - it's been a busy week. In answer to your question, Wilhelm has been a pretty well-behaved upright bush about 6.5 feet high and maybe 3 feet wide. I could prune it to something a bit smaller, but he doesn't bother his neighbors for the most part, and is happy in part shade at the foot of some pines. He's not floppy like most of my other hybrid musks, which makes him play nicely with others. MAC on the other hand is a monster, and didn't bloom till I let her sprawl at will all over everything. She's at least 8-9 feet long in the canes, but since she is very droopy and wants to be a climber even in zone 5, she's only about 3 feet tall at her highest point without support. Well, I take that back, some of her longer canes have started growing up an elderberry bush/tree about 6 feet away, and as a result are stretching up with support. I recently trimmed back a whole lot of the canes to make some room for other roses she was smothering, but they'll roar back with a vengeance in spring. Just know that in cold zones she takes a while to get impressive. This is probably her 5th year for me and the first real "wow" year, though she bloomed some the previous years. Have fun Cynthia

Your pictures are just super! Love red rock country! I will add this area to my list of places to visit next time we are down there.

ballast