Matt, I hope the birds get into a nest with their own eggs. The wren will not be able to keep the baby tres alive after they fledge. When tres fledge, they take to the sky never to return and they hunt for bugs on the wing. This is the strangest thing I have ever seen.

I hope the tres. make it.
Karen

The TRES have a new nest of their own ,right next door(paired boxes),only thing is there is 5 HOWR eggs,and the TRES layed 3 of there own,they are incubating now.When the HOWR layed her eggs,the TRES took over the box.The TRES abandoned 3 eggs in the other paired box.The HOWR moved in and began incubating the TRES eggs.These 2 know each other very well.LOL!!

As far as the fledglings,if they live.I am going to contact a rehabber ,see what they have to say.

What a weird and remarkable story! I can't wait to find out what happens to all of these little birds.

Matt, do you have other TRES in your area? I have read ...and seen that TRES will gide babies that are not their own. There is no way a HOWR can teach a TRES how to survive. I can not believe that the TRES can raise HOWR babies either, they may get them out of the box but I am pretty certain it is a grim future for those fledglings. *IF* it were me I would destroy the HOWR eggs. I would not want to see the babies starve to death. TRES only feed on the wing and the HOWR babies can not do this. The TRES babies MAY survive because the comunity of TRES stick together. I don't know about the HOWR, they are going to need to be fed on the ground or in the trees. If you want them all to make it I would suggest getting the HOWR babies to a rehabber. I think the TRES babies have a better chance. *I* would not want more HOWRs in my area but I would also feel very bad if those HOWR babies went starving.
Tuff call on your part! Interesting situation. Best of luck in whatever you do.

I did contact a rehabber today,She said if the HOWR eggs do hatch she will take them,As far as the TRES nestlings,She said the fledgling should be fine,because as Lisa said, TRES stick together and should help each other out,but if I run into any trouble with them to give her a call and she will take them as well.The pair of TRES(their real parents) are right next door in the paired box,so there are more TRES around.The HOWR have not bothered them one bit during this whole thing.I will keep a eye on things.This is my first ever nesting for TRES.

Matt

Matt, you are awesome for taking care of the soon to be baby birds. Keep us posted on the outcome.

Karen

Yes, AWESOME! The House Wrens are native song birds and they, their nests, eggs and chicks are protected under federal guidelines just as are the bluebirds, Tree Swallows, Cardinals ... and other native birds.

Please keep us posted. :-)

I did a nest check today,The 2 TRES nestlings seem to be doing fine,one is a little smaller then the other,but they were both alive,I did see the HOWR bringing food several times while I was watching.The TRES box still has all the eggs,3 TRES eggs and the 5 HOWR eggs,still no nestlings.I am not sure when she started incubation,But my guess would be maybe nestlings sometime next week.

Matt

I was not at work yesterday,so I did a nestcheck today.

6-27-08
The 2 TRES with the HOWR seem to be doing well,But there is a difference in size between the two,the HOWR have seemed to speed up the feeding,alot more trips with food.

I also checked the TRES box,well at 10am this morning there was 1 HOWR hatched,I returned at 2 pm to try to take some photos,this time there was 1 TRES that had hatched also,so one of each so far.I did not see any feeding going on ,and this has me worried,Do the nestlings need fed on the first day or do the parents wait a certain amount of time before beginning to feed?I not manage to get any good photos,because there is just too many feathers in this nest,But I will try again.

I did get a photo of the 2 TRES being raised by the HOWR.Notice the size difference.

Thanks
Matt

Hey Matt, my parent birds do not begin to feed immediately. I wonder if these babies would be better off with the rehabber as she will make sure they are fed properly and adequately? I think I would go that way instead of hoping that the wrens can do the job. This is just my opinion. Would she come over to your place and assess the situation and their condition for you? It's quite the dilemma you have. Have you heard from anyone that has seen this situation before?

A

I am waiting for a call back from the rehabber as we speak.
The Wrens seem to be doing a fine job caring for the nestlings,I did gat about a hour of video today,I will post in a few days.
Thanks
Matt

Very cool that they are all doing well! :-)

Some years ago we had a Cardinal that had been successfully fostered by a very diligent pair of House Sparrows! They had the chubbiest kid on the block! LOL!

Thanks for the update.

C3D

This is probably the coolest thread I've followed in some time. I'm amazed by the flip-flopped babies and fascinated that there now appears to be a nest with two different species of baby in it. Amazing! Nature is so wonderous and weird, ain't it? Awesome job, BigMatt, of keeping tabs on everyone's well being and having a back-up plan should the "real world" scenario go awry. Waiting with baited breath for more news...

OK,I did talk to the rehabber.She is thinking the best thing to do is to wait a few more days or maybe a week.Then bring the newest TRES (the one that is in the nest box with the TRES and the newly hatched HOWR)to her,and she will take care of it.Then switch all the remaining chicks.The 2 TRES nestlings with the HOWR would go in the TRES box,and put the HOWR nestling with the HOWR.She asked me to keep a eye on things for the next few days.I will do another nest check on Monday to make sure that no other eggs have hatched in the TRES box,If there are,she may change her thinking.She wants me to think about it for a few days.She wants me to call her on Monday to give her any updates.What do you all think about this plan?This is so strange she really does not have a 100% answer on what to do,but she said she will take any of the nestlings that may need help.

Matt

Video is up.
HOWR shares a large insect(I think grasshopper) with the TRES nestlings,then cleans up after them.link below

Here is a link that might be useful: video

Matt, thank you for the video. I guess it's good that their instinct is to feed all gaping mouths in the nest. Hopefully all will go well. This is really interesting. Keep us up to date with what's going on.

6-30-08
I did check both boxes today.First the HOWR box,The TRES have grown alot in the almost 2 days since the video.The smaller one is not so small any more and they look great.Now for the TRES box,There are now what I believe are 3 HOWR nestlings and still 1 TRES nestling.they all appeared to be doing well also.I did speak to the rehabber again today,She still believes it is a good idea (on Friday 7-4-08)to bring the 1 TRES nestling from the TRES box to her,and put the 3 HOWR nestlings with the HOWR,and move the 2 TRES with the HOWR to the TRES box with them.She did suggest to put the nestcam in the HOWR box for about a hour ,to make sure everything goes well,She really does not believe there are going to be any problems.

Matt

7-1-08
I did a nest check this morning,I am not sure if I miss counted in the TRES box yesterday or not,Today it appears to be 2 TRES and 1 HOWR,but there may have been more on the bottom of the pile.It is very difficult to get a 100% count,trying to spend as little time at the box as possible,plus all those feathers .I will check again tomorrow,It should be easier as the nestlings grow alittleI will stay at that box tomorrow.until I get a accurate count.I really need to know what is going on.The rehabber did suggest to remove some of the feathers to get a better view,when I am done just to lay the feathers back in the box ,and the TRES will arrange them as she wishes.

7-2-08
I did my daily nestcheck this morning,The 2 TRES with the HOWR look good.I also check the TRES box,I was determined to get a good count today,so I removed the chicks from the nest to get a good count,I am sad to report ,there was 1 dead HOWR nestling in the bottom of the nest,I did remove it,there are only 2 living nestlings in the box now,I believe they are both TRES ,but I am not 100%sure,I am pretty sure one is ,but the other I am not sure about, It is alittle smaller then the other,but I think it is just younger . I did not study them closely,I was trying to move quickly,I will try to get a photo of them tomorrow.I will be calling the rehabber tomorrow,because I don't believe there are any living HOWR nestlings to switch into the HOWR nest.Her original plan will not work,I want to see if she has any other suggestions,because now we only need to worry about the TRES nestlings with the HOWR,Will they be OK fledging.or will she need to take them?

On a better note,I did have 5 EABL fledge today.

Matt

Thanks for the up date and congratulations on your blues!!

Without reading back through the whole post, it may have been answered, but why don't you put the TRES babies in the TRES box? I am sorry if this has been answered, but I didn't want to re-read all of the posts.

bluebirdbabe,
There is a TRES nestling in the TRES box also,but it is about a week younger then the TRES in the HOWR box,the age difference is too great to be together.

7-3-08
I only had a half day at work today,I checked the boxes 10:00am,I took a closer look at the nestlings in the TRES box first,I am 100% sure,1 TRES and 1 HOWR,I also looked in the HOWR box,There is now only 1 TRES nestling in this box,just yesterday at 2 pm there were 2.The smaller of the 2 is now gone,These are the 2 shown in the video.There are no dead nestlings in the box,Did the HOWR remove it ?Could the HOWR have removed a dead 11 day old TRES nestling ?something is not adding up.I did notice the HOWR is spending alot more time at the box.She is still feeding and removing the poop sacks.I contacted the rehabber today also,This is what we plan to do,I will bring the 11-12 day TRES that is in the HOWR box to her,I will take the HOWR nestling from the TRES box and put it in the HOWR box.There will be one nestling in each box,but they will be of the right species for the parents.I will do this tomorrow morning. I forgot to take my camera today ,so there are no photos.I really am a little worried about what I may or may not find in these boxes tomorrow.I will put the nestcam in the HOWR box tomorrow before I do the switch,to make sure the HOWR nestling is accepted.

Matt

Well, that wouldn't work out would it? I should have read more closely. Geezzz, I wonder what happened to the other babies. No, a wren could not remove an 11 day old tres. I wonder what the heck is going on!

You're a good man for doing what you are doing. I sure am pulling for those baby tres.

Keep us posted :)

Karen

7-4-08,
Its miller time!everything went well,The HOWR was accepted .The TRES nestling is now with the rehabber,She said he looks to be in excellent heath,There is a problem with the HOWR nestling,one of its wing is not right,I will post photos latter.I have emailed her some photos of it,She wants me to try something tomorrow,I will explain this evening,I have some photos and video I will be posting tonight as well.Talk to you all tonight.

Matt

7-4-08
The link below is a clip of the first visit to the nest after the switch,I did watch for about a hour ,there were several feedings,everthing OK there.

When I had the HOWR nestling out I took some photos of him/her,Something is not right with its left wing ,as you can see in the photo below.

Here is the right side,It looks normal.

The rehabber told me to dip the bad wing in some warm water,and try to straighten the wing,if all the joints are there it may work,If it does not work ,I will need to pull the nestling and bring it to her,she will do what she can.If she cannot get it straightened out,The bird will never be able to fly,She would have to euthanize the bird.She did say after looking at the photos ,there maybe hope.I really am not very fond of HOWR,But I do feel sorry for this guy,and I hope He makes it,but I am doubtful.

The rehabber now has the TRES nestling that was in the HOWR box,I did take a few photos of him/her before I left her house.

I will be going tomorrow to do the water treatment on the HOWR ,I have a feeling I will be back at the rehabber on Sunday with that bird.

Matt

Here is a link that might be useful: first visit

Awww. Looks like the wing is malformed and that joint did not develop. A congential thing. Usually if there's one congenital malformation there are others like a heart defect and their lives are shortened.

You have shown this little one the greatest gift of all ... compassion! Thanks. :-)

That baby TRES is adorable. Matt, I think you should get a rehabbers license. You are an amazing person! Thanks for all the up dates. I keep coming back to see how the TRES are doing.

Karen

Matt, you are doing great with these babies. I don't know if I would have the courage to handle the little things but I'm glad you do! Very sorry about the little wren, but not to be mean I'm glad it's the wren and not the TRES. I hope the wren is ok, though. You do get attached to them and he is very cute and kind of pathetic. Good luck and of course I will be checking back in for the next episode.

Anita

7-5-08
Well I did the water treatment today ,I do not think it did much good,The rehabber wants to leave him in the nest until the end of the week,since it is the only nesling the HOWR has,She is afraid of a possible rampage on the TRES box next door.She does not feel there is much she can do for the HOWR nestling anyway.We will pull him at the end of the week,That will give the TRES nestling in the TRES box some time to grow some.

Matt

Karen,
If I even thought about getting into rehabbing,My wife would kill me. LOL!
Seriously,After talking with the rehabber for about a hour,when I took the TRES to her.It is amazing some of the things she has to do.She was telling me stories you would not believe,Her life is all about insects,Throwing mealworms and waxworms,into the air for hours inside a screened tent,trying to teach the Barnies and Tree Swallows how to eat on their own,collecting flies,berries,and other foods birds are going to be eating when they are released.The 3 Blues a kid brought to her that had been victims of a HOSP attack.Then there are the larger birds like Hawks,Crows and Eagles,Then the mammals.The conferences that need to be attended,and on and on...
This lady is amazing.

This is for the board,
I did ask her about The female Eastern Bluebird having to inoculate the nestlings in order for them to live ,She said that was not true,no inoculation is needed,a nestling could be raised,without being fed first by its mother.She did say that guidelines require Chimney Swifts to have a swab taken from inside the mouth from a adult chimney Swift,and wiped on the inside of the nestlings mouth.
However,She did say alot of mammals need to get inoculated from their mothers milk,She did mention Rabbits.

Matt

ok, it was just a thought. I know rehabbers are amazing wonderful people. I took a rose breasted grosbeak to a rehabber after it hit my window. I was amazed to see all the baby birds she had in her home!!! When I got there 4 baby robbins flew at me!!! I ducked and they all landed at my feet begging for food. They thought any human was mom and they would be fed. Her and her husband work around the clock to save these babies and only get donations. I gave her what I had in my wallet at the time which was only $12.00. The next day I brought her meal and wax worms and a bunch of elder berries.

Now for my questions about the TRES. Where is she going to release it and who is going to show the baby the way south? I guess I'm asking about it's chance for survival? The TRES that fledged from my back yard are gone.

Thanks for all the up dates.
Karen

Matt, I can't tell you how surprised I am to hear that about the inoculation (in bluebirds) not being necessary. I've been told by two songbird rehabbers that it has to be done. A friend of mine was rehabbing in Florida a few years ago and someone brought her a female bluebird who had been attacked by a cat. She noticed a patch on the female and asked the people to go back to the nest box and look for eggs. Sure enough, there were two eggs and they brought them to my friend. I saw video of that poor momma blue sitting on those eggs up until the time she died of her injuries. My friend had an incubator and decided she would try incubating the eggs to see if they would hatch. They did! They lived about 12 hours. She spoke to several different rehabbers around the county (including the one in my area) during that 12 hour period and was told that there was no way she could save the babies because their gut had not been inoculated by a female bluebird. This woman had cared for several newly hatched baby bird that did survive, these two bluebirds being the only exception. I don't mean to infer that she didn't loose some of the birds she rehabbed (mostly due to injuries) but these were the only two newly hatched babies that she lost.

As far as licensed rehabbing, my hat is off to anyone who does it. It is expensive beyond belief and totally time consuming, especially during nesting season. My rehabber is taking 3 to 5 years off to get a business started but she still attends classes and conventions and keeps her license current. She told me that when she was rehabbing full time that she couldn't even think of taking a vacation or long weekend from early March till the end of August. My friend in Florida quit after about a year and a half because she was emotionally drained and BROKE!

Karen, I don't have TRES here but thought I'd read that a flock will pick up a stray and teach it how to survive.

Karen,
I did not ask where she was going to release it,but I did ask her about migration,She said they are hardwired for it.That will not be a problem.As you did,I gave her a nice donation,I feel it is good to have a rehabber I can count on.
Matt

Janie may,
I am no expert in EABL, I just happen to think about the inoculation thing while I was there,so I asked,That was the answer she gave me.I do know that she is experienced with EABL,She had a pair nesting not 50 feet from where we were sitting and talking.The strange thing is ,I saw a HOWR also,I asked her if she had any problems with them,She said in all the years she has been there,she has never had a problem with the HOWR messing with the EABL,(knock on wood)But she was aware at what damage they could do. I will try to do some research on the inoculation thing.

Matt, please fill me in on anything you find out about the inoculation. I'd be very interested.

As far as HOWR and EABL nesting peacefully in the same areas, I've heard the same thing. I would imagine that a lot of that depends on how large the area is, placement of boxes, and the number of boxes being offered. Our house is on less than an acre and that, I'm sure, creates a problem for HOWR and EABL nesting in harmony. Although, a friend of mine does have about 10 acres and seven boxes and the HOWR claim all of them even though they are placed in wide open spaces.

Janie

7-10-08

Well,Today was the day I pulled the HOWR,I called the rehabber this morning,We decided to pull the HOWR this evening,I took the HOWR to her.She took one look at it and said it will never be able to fly.She said it could have fledged,It could have learned to feed itself,But it would never be able to fly.The rehabber said ,she will try to teach it to eat on its own.If it succeeds,she will not euthanize the bird.She will allow it to live the rest of its life in her aviary,along with some other birds with disabilities.I did feel a little sorry for the HOWR parent that showed up at the nestbox with food for it,after I had removed the nestling and cleaned the house,after all this HOWR raised a TRES,And this crippled HOWR.I am really glad to have a good rehabber in my area,This lady is my hero.

Matt

That's wonderful, Matt! Great to have a compassionate person to help out in a difficult situation. Ya both did good! :-)

House Wrens easily learn to feed themselves. This little one will need a more unique diet because of the inability to fly. He'll probably become very good at running down all sorts of bugs, caterpillars and other creepy crawlies. Since he's never flown he's not feeling he's missing out on anything. He knows no different than being grounded.

Matt any news?

7-16-08
I am happy to report the lone TRES (The only one raised by its real parents) fledged about 1 pm today.I saw it,It came out of the box,dipped a little,then up and away.I also spoke to the rehabber this morning,The one I took to her is doing fine,She said it was flying and eating on its own.She will keep it one more week ,just to make sure everything is OK,It will be released next week.She said the HOWR with the bad wing is still in feeding training LOL!,but doing well.I was also surprised to find my Blues have switched boxes and started a 3rd nesting.And I thought I was going to be able to relax,LOL LOL!!!