I tried the fescues. They last about a year and die That is twice as long as Zoysia would survive up there. All of it would be frozen the first winter and die. There is a very good reason why no sod farms or nurseries carry Zoysia up there. It would ruin their reputation and cost them a fortune in refunds and disgruntled customers. This post was edited by texas-weed on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 16:30

Thanks guys. I got the name of a couple of companies with good names. I think I'm going to go with the Zenith type since it is pretty dark. If anyone has anything to add, I'd love to hear from you. I just don't want the two grass types to be very noticeably different.

Sorry if I offended you. I don't pretend to be a landscape expert, that's why I'm here asking questions. My husband's issue with St Augustine has to do with the look and feel of it, he really doesn't like it. The water is not the primary issue, but is a factor. St Augustine is just not an option he is willing to consider. He doesn't like it. Period. I was hesitant about zoysia as it's a type of St Augustine, but we've seen some varieties he likes, so will likely go that route. Now, I haven't seen the flortam of which you speak, so we'll check that out. The St Augustines I've seen are not really a 'run around and play in' sort of grass like the turfs, which IMO is the only reason FOR grass. As I stated, I know St Aug and Bermuda require the same amount of water to LOOK green, the issue is that Bermuda can go dormant w/o water in a drought, the St Aug doesn't make it. We have both and in the past, the St Aug died off, the bermuda came back with some rain. (This year we HAVE watered a lot due to new grass/new plantings, but will cut back next year) Our trees are doing excellent and have all along. When I need to water in the summer,I use the a/c run off. 4000gal is quite a lot of water, IMO, in a drought prone area. It's not the cost that's an issue, but a desire not to deplete the aquifer. Our normal use is closer to 3000gal/month, but with all the new plantings have been closer to 5000g recently. I'm aiming to get back to 4000 by next year. Now, we like grass, which is a water hog, so we accept we'll use more than if we hardscaped - except for the grass, we're mostly xeriscaping, but we want to minimize the impact if possible. Again, I'm sorry if I offended you, lou. My intent was not to attack your, or anyone's, expertise, but to get information. Back to another question - how long after using roundup should I be laying sod? DO I need to wait a certain time period? Thanks for the help!

"Driveway circle" -- probably high heat, as many of us have issues with areas like that. "Red fescue" -- tolerant of lower light levels, but not particularly good at high heat tolerance, and the dormancy mechanism isn't good at all. If it does brown out for any great length of time, it's usually not dormant, it's dead. Zoysia, some varieites at least, are tolerant of your winters because they're tolerant of my winters up here in the foothills of the Pocono mountains of Pennsylvania! Keep in mind that Zoysia turns to light brown straw at the first frost and doesn't recover until well after termperatures warm; it won't risk freezing in the slightest. It offers no winter color, but is tolerant of extremely high heat and lower water levels. I can't speak to shade tolerance, however, and you'll have to wait for a zoysia expert for that. I'd be very hesitant to trust the printed literature and books on that as local observation shows a great deal of variance from those in terms of light level acceptance of the grass, But that's true for every grass. I can successfully keep Kentucky Bluegrass happy on indirect light for seven months a year on my north face. Much depends on care and local conditions--it gets constant northlight and reflection from a white fence. All is still not lost. Four hours is at the lower level for most grasses, so bluegrass (with its good dormancy mechanism) is still an option. But whatever you choose, I'd choose fast. The seeding window opened in the middle of August and, for most grasses, it's best to have everything done around Labor Day weekend. Or, now. The later you go, the less chance it has to grow in and develop good roots by winter. And, if memory serves, Zoysia would have to wait for late spring anyway. It's a warm-season grass.