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eclectic_gardener

Help identify snake image - in my garden

eclectic_gardener
16 years ago

Can anyone help me identify this snake - before my husband kills it!!! (I have made him wait)

www.glimmeringgems.com/images/snake1.jpg

Thanks -

RT

Here is a link that might be useful:

Comments (34)

  • roselee z8b S.W. Texas
    16 years ago

    It's not a venomous snake. Let him go. Texas venomous snakes are rattle snakes, copperheads, cottonmouths, and coral snakes. It's none of those. Probably one of the rat snakes. Wish I had him! Saw a rat run across my patio in broad daylight today!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Texas venomous snakes ...

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks,
    That is exactly what I have done!
    I love snakes - and it is now roaming around freely in my garden.

    I told him it was ok, but he is much more afraid of snakes than I am.
    I have been bitten before - does not hurt much more than a bee sting.
    Besides - they only strike if they feel threatened.

    It is probably dining on the toads in my yard.

    Thanks :)
    Rhonda -

  • srburk
    16 years ago

    Look here and see if you can find him or send the guy your pic for id.....

    http://www.texassnakes.net/pictures.html

  • bossjim1
    16 years ago

    It looks like a Cottonmouth water moccasin to me.
    Jim

  • missinformation
    16 years ago

    Gosh, I hate to say, but it looks like a cottonmouth to me, too. Be careful, and you might want to let your husband at this one. Here's a close up of a cottonmouth and the yellow underneath.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1346106}}

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Can you all possibly check the link below and tell me if you think it is the blotched water snake?

    Here is a link that might be useful: snake link

  • roselee z8b S.W. Texas
    16 years ago

    They sure look close. The cotton mouths I've seen seem to have more of a hooded eye.

  • missinformation
    16 years ago

    They look very similar, and no matter what that article says, a water snake will come after you and bite the MESS out of you. I wouldn't want either in the yard, particularly if you have pets or kids. I've seen water snakes come directly at a boat and try to get in. Eeek!

  • denisew
    16 years ago

    I definitely think it is the blotched water snake. It doesn't have the triangular head most venomous snakes have and roselee is right - the cottonmouth has slight "hoods" over their eyes.

    I have also seen a water snake being aggressive and swimming towards a student who was standing near the shore of a pond. I think it was just because it was in the spring and they tend to be more territorial this time of year.

    Here is a good snake/fisherman story . . . since we're on the subject of snakes.

    Back when I was in college my dad and brother were out fishing and a large cottonmouth crawled into their boat. My brother saw it and went towards the front telling my dad there was a snake back there. He looked back and didn't see it since it was behind the gas tank and told him to go back and sit down to continue fishing. My brother took another look and said no, there's a snake back there. Finally my dad took a look and saw it was that big cottonmouth and it was acting aggressive towards them. Another fisherman nearby saw them standing towards the front of the boat thinking they were taking on water so came over to help. They told him they had a snake in the boat. The man took a hold of one of his oars to kill the snake then looked at the snake and looked back at the oar and decided the oar wasn't big or long enough. (hee-hee!) Then he got the bigger oar and killed the snake for my dad and brother since they didn't have anything big enough to do it themselves. They thanked the guy who came to their rescue and went back to fishing - trying to catch a big one, although they had caught a big one - just no the kind of big one they wanted! :D

  • pjtexgirl
    16 years ago

    This is a pit viper. It has several distinguishing characteristics in the adult. The juveniles are banded and this snake is not.

    adults are heavy bodied, with a head noticeably wider than the neck. Young cottonmouths do not resemble adults. They are lighter in color and have 10 to 15 cross bands on their back.
    (Look for the typical "diamond" found in venomous snakes. This is however NOT the case with Coral snakes.)

    As with all venomous snakes in Missouri, cottonmouths have elliptical pupils, like those of a cat. They also have a visible pit between the nostril and the eye.
    (they do not have ellipital pupils in the dark or deep shade BTW)
    When threatened, they open their jaws wide, a posture called gaping, to display the cottony white lining of the mouth.
    No other snake does this.
    Be careful and good luck! PJ

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    My neighbor has created multiple man made creeks, and a swampy area in his backyard. (mosquito breeing grounds)
    He has brought in tons of toads (they are always in my pool) and lizards, and he built a 6' rock pile to create a "nest" for his lizards and toads - there is so much water!
    I was informed that he used three times the water of the local golf course in one month lat year! I think it was something like 666000 gallons if I remember correctly.
    yes, six hundred sixty six thousand gallons.

    There are three large man made "ponds" he calls them with creeks that run between them - then in addition he has his crawfish pond.
    We live in a subdivision - and his yard is a standard size yard.
    Its gross - the mosquitoes - we cannot even enjoy our yard or pool.
    Now the snakes...
    I am ok if they are non venomous - but it sounds like maybe - I should be worried.
    I have three large dogs that love to go outside - and would try to kill the snake - not to mention my daughter.

    If it is a cotton mouth.. thats really bad.

    I am not sure what I should do -
    Thanks to everyone for trying to help me figure it out.

    RT

  • justintx
    16 years ago

    Looks like a moccasin to me, too, but difficult to see if its head has the distinctive triangular shape of the other pit vipers.

    I created a 'ruccous' last year talking about snakes and cats, and here is why I would rather a cat get 'hit' than my kids. This is VERY graphic. They had to open up the arm to relieve the pressure from the swelling. The teenager survived. NO venomous snakebite is a casual affair.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • fool4flowers
    16 years ago

    I don't know what your snake is but every spring when we are fishing some water snakes will come at the boat and even slapping at them with a fishing pole or oar they keep coming right back and water mocassins used to chase us in the creek when we were kids. I don't trust any water snake.

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Here is a second image that I had taken, it is the back of the snakes head - maybe the shape will help identify it.
    It was pretty hard to take the pics, I was holding a rake to push the plants back with one hand, and taking the pic with the other - sorry they are blurry.

    Thanks for all of your help.
    RT

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • mnktx
    16 years ago

    definitely a blotched water snake, 100%. Supralabial markings, alternate tan on black, good self-identification RT. As stated above, they're non venomous but can be feisty buggers.

  • xxx_karma_xxx
    16 years ago

    It's a cottonmouth. KILL IT before someone gets hurt...
    and if you have a neighbor that has created a water world stockpiled with a food source then there are probably others around beside this one.

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I saw a small baby snake just last week, it was near were I was going to plant out a Salvia - I noticed it just before I put my hand down.

    It was curled up and acting like it wanted to strike.
    I just let it be - made the assumption it was a garden snake.
    It looks like the same type - it was very dark - sort of grey looking.
    Saw the same type last year in our front grass.

    Wish I knew for sure which type snakes these are - today, this one was striking at the rake handle multiple times when I was trying to take the image.
    But we had been moving around the plants with the rake handle quite a bit, so I am sure the snake was terrified.

    I am not sure if it is a cottonmouth or a blotched water snake - they look so close to the same.

    It was lying right out in the open in our grass sunning, we walked right up on it, almost did not notice it until it was too late.

    RT

  • mnktx
    16 years ago

    sheesh, it's a water snake already and there's absolutely no reason to kill it. Missinformation, respectfully, the picture of the cottonmouth you linked to is a yellowbelly water snake and not a cottonmouth. The supralabial are the scales just below the mouth and if you notice the stripes there that are on your snake RT, they are not present on the cottonmouth. Also the bands on the body of the BWS and your snake, make an alternate wishbone or hourglass shape, one up one down whereas the cottonmouth would be symmetrical. Yours has no evident pits of a pit viper and lacks the dark eye stripe of the cottonmouth. It's great to be cautious and to err on the side of safety when uncertainly prevails but I know for certain the one you originally posted about is not a cottonmouth. Not so sure about the smaller one you mentioned because I can't see it :) What's interesting to me though is what it's doing there. Do you or your neighbors have ponds? You live near a lake or river? Regardless, I hope this helps to build your confidence it's an okay snake to have and your DH doesn't get the green light to nix it! At worst, relocate it. Drive by Roselee's house and toss it in her yard *g*. I'm surely the worst plant identifier on the planet but I know my birds and snakes :)

    Marc

  • centraltexan
    16 years ago

    Based on the photo, I have to agree that its just a Blotched Water Snake, nothing to worry about. I'm a biologist and don't like to ID something based on a photo, but with snakes normally you either get a photo or a corpse.

    Have a look at the attached website, it lists most of the snakes found in the Houston area. One key I use to seperate the snakes is the head shape and the location of the color lines across the head. Look at the photo of the Blotched water snake on the website, its almost identical to your photo. The Western Cottonmouth has a line across the eyes that is not present on your photo. Look at the photos of both snakes on the website.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Snakes in Houson area

  • sowngrow (8a)
    16 years ago

    Maybe Wayne will see this post and i.d. it for certain. He's the GW resident snake expert.

  • roselee z8b S.W. Texas
    16 years ago

    RT, if the snake opened it's mouth to strike at the rake were you able to see if the mouth was white inside? If white then that would ID it as a cotton mouth.

    Thank you Marc (I laughed when I read your remark :-) and everyone for their input and yes, I do appreciate all of nature including reptiles. However, I'm not lily white from a snake's perspective. Years ago when I saw a rattle snake peacefully sunning itself by the swimming pool I summoned a neighbor to help me kill it. I guess the ideal thing would have been to relocate it far far away, but neither of us were competent to do that. Oh well...

    When anyone has the time it might be good to look at the link provided above by srburk to familiarize yourself with common Texas snakes. Clicking on the pictures takes you to more photos that particular snake. I've never seen a hognose in the first picture. Interesting in that it has a hood reminiscent of a cobra.

    Be happy gardening everyone!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Snake Pictures

  • wayne_mo
    16 years ago

    The snake is a Blotched (Plainbelly) Water Snake.

    The snake in Missinformation's link is a Yellowbelly (Plainbelly) Water Snake and is very closely related to the Blotched Water Snake.

    Both are harmless nonvenomous Nerodian water snakes.

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Hello Everyone -
    Thanks so much for all of the help.
    The really sad thing is - I sent the images to multiple "experts" and they all came back with something different!

    I have come to the conclusion that it is indeed a blotched water snake - maybe yellow belly, maybe not - dont really care, as long as it is non-venomous.

    I did not let my husband kill it because I do not believe in killing things unless they pose a direct danger to me, my family, or my pets.
    Even then - I would opt to relocate before killing if at all possible.

    Snakes are very valuable to gardens, and I have decided to leave it for now, and possibly relocate it if I find that my husband is so afraid of it, that the snake is in danger.
    Neither me or my fourteen-year-old daughter is particularly afraid of snakes and doesn't mind getting bitten by a non-venomous variety. It only hurts for a short amount of time :)

    I have seen quite a few babies, so I plan on purchasing some snake tongs - for removal purposes if I find that there are too many to handle.

    To answer the question is there water near me - YES - my neighbor has built multiple ponds, with what he calls creeks connecting one to the other, he also has a crayfish pond, and he basically keeps his back yard (swamp like)

    He put up a rock pile around 6' high for his toads and lizards to hind in - to keep them warm in the winter he says.
    He used 666000.00 gallons on water in his back yard in July of last year - Yes - I did mean to say six hundred and sixty six thousand gallons. I was told that this was at least three times the amount of water that the golf course used.
    We constantly have had to battle an obscene amount of mosquitoes that he breeds to feed the toads.
    He has now decided to file workers comp at his new job, so he has let the ponds go - he is now not maintaining them at all. (this is the second job, and second workers comp suit)
    The city will not do anything against him unless I file a court case. Yeah, thats just what I need to do - anger a crazy neighbor :(
    I am just waiting until my daughter graduates in 4 years, then I am out of Texas.

    Every year I fish toads out of my swimming pool, try to keep them from getting mowed by the lawnmower and fight to keep them alive, because I cant stand to kill anything!!!
    There is one outside my window as we speak calling for a mate.
    I have a small 100 gallon pond that I keep a little fountain in to drown out the road noise (we live next to a main road)

    I would love to round some of them up this year and give them away to someone local (or ship them if anyone definately knows a safe way to do this) if anyone wants some toads.
    I cannot handle the (what feels like thousands) of toads that I have to try to save from ... everything ... each summer!
    RT

  • pjtexgirl
    16 years ago

    Oh crummola!!! I meant to post a picture with "This is a pit viper" my bad!!!

    I think it's admirable that you didn't kill the snake without finding out what it was for sure! Thank you for that!

    I took the time to look up why MOST folks get bitten by poisonous snakes. Of the 3 sites I looked up they all said basically the same thing.

    SNAKE BITE FACTS:

    the victim profile is mostly men between ages 17 and 27? How about that alcohol intoxication is a risk factor for being bitten? Or that the most bites occur in the peak summer months?

    Rattlesnake bite is most common in young men who often are intoxicated and have purposely handled a venomous snake.

    Never handle or harass snakes. Sounds obvious, but the majority of snakebite cases reported in the United States are men who were bitten on the hand or arm while trying to pick up a snake.

    Apparently, these animals aren't aggressive even when they are venomous. I'd take the time to find out what it was too. I personally know how I'd handle a venomous snake w/o getting bitten but I have handled snakes before and know what to do. PJ

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Ok -
    Here is how I recieved my first snake bit (for those curious)
    I knew it was going to happen (even before I stuck my hand in the aquarium).
    A friend of mine ran a apartment complex in Georgia. He had found a Red Tail Boa in a apartment that had escaped, and the owner had been evicted.
    He took it home, put it in a 10 gallon aquarium, the snake was a good 5' or more. He had crammed the tank full of towels, and put in a hot rock, and had a 150W light bulb shining in the poor snakes face 24 hours a day (for warmth he said)
    He added a coffee cup of water for the snake to drink out of - and of course - the snake had tipped it over.
    David, while his intentions were good - he was afraid of the snake. He had not fed it, and it was "not happy"

    I knew that I was going to get nailed before I even put my hand in the tank to remove the wet towels, and clean up the water.
    The snake did exactly what I expected him to do.
    He struck me, and wrapped my arm very quickly.
    I stood there (my daughter watching) with a snake stuck to my arm. I gently pryed his mouth from my arm - and after cleaning the cage, returned him to it. I made sure not to even cringe - as I did not want my daughter to develop a fear of snakes! I never made a sound, and I think my calmness helped both me, the snake, and my daughter.

    I told Richard and his elderly mother that the snake needed to be with someone familiar with handeling snakes (I had grown up with boa's because my brother had one when I was a little girl)
    They sold me the snake, I put it on a plane to Texas, took it to my brother - who then placed it with a person who handles boa's and takes them to schools as a part of a teaching program.

    I have a fondness of snakes, and would hate to kill it unless it poses a danger to our lives.

    My snake bite was expected, thankfully I do not meet any of the "reasons that people get snake bitten" - but thanks for posting - because I think you are exactly correct.
    Most (but not all) snake bites are due to stupidity - many of the others are probably just due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    We almost stepped on that poor snake in my images before we noticed it.
    Its only defense would have been to strike - this would have just been - being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    Thank goodness for all of us - our situation ended up ok.
    I will just have to keep a closer eye out before I go treading through my garden.
    RT

  • sowngrow (8a)
    16 years ago

    Thank you to Wayne for the i.d. It's great how you are able to help so many people out on GW with their snake i.d.s Wayne. I don't know how you find the posts, but you always seem to do it.

  • eclectic_gardener
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Hello,
    Yes - thanks to you Wayne.
    I want to make sure you know that I sincerely do appreciate your help.

    I am so bad about not wanting to kill, that I trap the rats that I find every now and then and take them and let them go in fields - cant stand to kill anything.

    I figure they are food for the snakes and the Hawks, and I would rather let nature do its job - it does not require my intervention :)

    RT

  • roselee z8b S.W. Texas
    16 years ago

    RT, thank you for your snake stories! I was curious about how you got bitten. I appreciate that you stayed calm. Children can be taught caution without fear. Two of my grandaughters kept snakes as pets, but were also taught what venomous snakes look like.

    Also thanks to PJ for searching out which segment of our society are the most frequently bitten by venomous snakes. Snakes really don't want to waste their venom on us. It's their meal ticket.

    " ... can't stand to kill anything." Everything wants to live.

  • tobydmv
    15 years ago

    Definitely not poisonous!!!!!!!!!! Its a water snake please leave it be. Moccasins have vertical pupils. Neither will "come after you". They dont run away because they have evolved over millions of years to rely on camoflauge.

    This thread just proves how many harmless snakes get killed due to stupidity.

  • fool4flowers
    15 years ago

    I hate to disagree with you about them not coming after you but at certain times of the year they most certainly will. I don't know if all kinds do it but they definitely do in Lousiana, lol. My sister was chased in the house by some kind of snake and the screen door closed on him not to mention getting chased out of the creek with them coming after us and we definitely weren't messing with them or provoking them in any way other than being in an area they didn't want us to be in.

  • pjtexgirl
    15 years ago

    ecelitic, about that water garden.... boy o boy that's a TON of water I agree. However, it should have enough predators (mostly dragonfly larve) to eat the mosquitos. I had an actual bog in my garden and after the first 6 months(I treated with BT then) no more mosquito larve. If those ponds have any kind of circulation it will drown the larve too. I'll bet the mosquitoes are coming from some other project on his property that involves shallow,standing water or puddles. PJ

  • kentuck_8b
    15 years ago

    Pit vipers are all poisonous and all have eliptic(cat) eyes. Pit vipers include cottonmouths, copperheads and all rattlesnakes.

    Generally, a round pupiled snake means it is non-poisonous, although the Coral snake, and one other snake whose name slips my memory but is about the size of a coral snake, are the only two snakes around here that have round pupils that are poisonous.

    The above photo is of a water snake.

    However, that doesn't give the go ahead to go play with it. Even a non-poisonous snake can kill, if the person is allergic, just as some people are allergic to bees or wasps or ants, so be careful.

    Kt

  • tobydmv
    15 years ago

    Fool4flowers, your cracking me up. 35 years of being around snakes and I have never seen one run in the house like the Amish after the dinner bell. The snake was probably moving towards cover or shelter and the house was the nearest thing. Or maybe your sister was cooking something really good that night.

  • fool4flowers
    15 years ago

    Lol, he was chasing her and she ran in the house and he kept coming right after her but the screen door had a big spring on it and slammed shut on him. I think they were called black runners or racers or something like that. My Mom used to say if you would turn around and stomp at it they would turn and go the other way but you think we were going to stop and stomp and give it time to catch up, lol. The ones in the creek were cotton mouth or water moccassins. Not sure which we had plenty of both. They would only chase you a certain time of year. Maybe when they were mating or somthing. You should have seen this one guy. I swear his feet never hit the water he ran so fast it was like a duck taking off. Once it ran him out it came after us and we hit dry land way before it got close, lol. The one snake was in Alabama the others in the creek were in Louisiana. Maybe Texas snakes are smarter, lol. I did have the ones here swim right up to the boat in the spring 2 years in a row in the one cove so we don't fish there anymore, lol. Even slapping fishing poles at them wouldn't make them go away they kept coming back. Thank goodness I only see little harmless ones in my yard here or I would have to move, lol. Too much trauma in my youth from the big ones.