Simple logic tells me that the plant can't make a lot of food for itself if there isn't a lot of foliage to grab that sunlight. The scenario you describe sounds like one person's method. Many folks write about their success and when folks read something and see pictures of some kind of success, they naturally want to try it. Nothing wrong with that. I've tried lots of stuff over the years. Some worked and lots didn't work that well.

Here's what I do now, and this is after more than 60 years of trying all kinds of stuff..

I do my final potting up into either 9 oz or 16 oz plastic cups with a hole in the bottom to draw up water. This encourages the plant to send out roots down deep. Then, when I plant it in the garden, I dig a hole (in well prepared soil) that is deep enough to contain the contents of the cup plus another ~2 inches. I cover with garden soil and firm up everything so that the plant has a good solid base. I only trim away any leaves or branches that will contact the soil. AND THAT'S IT !!!!

This gets the bottom of the root ball down about 8-9 inches and the plant does the rest. Plants that have a good amount of foliage will do things better and faster - things like getting larger and starting the fruiting cycle. The more the amount of foliage available to the plant (total leaf surface measured in square inches), the better they seem to do.

The trick is to find a good balance in depth of planting and available foliage to get the plant off to a good start.

Hope this helps.

Ted

Yes your method in the practical sense works better (from what I witnessed) but that's not what the majority of books on growing vegetables (tomatoes) advocate. They advocate getting rid of all the bottom foliage and planting deeply to allow new roots to grow along the stems underground. From my own experience this slows down the growth of the plant considerably and puts off fruit production in favor of root production. What is the point of that if fruit production is diminished? Like I said before, authors, growers, horticulturists, etc., need to re-evaluate this procedure because I'm sure a lot of newbies reading these books will do what I, and apparently you too, think is the improper way to plant tomatoes. Thanks for your experienced input. :-)

the empirical evidence is clear - planting tomatoes this way is detrimental to yields.

I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. :)

There are too many uncontrolled variables to label it empirical rather than anecdotal evidence but in my experience the "strip all leaves and bury deep up to only the top leaves" method is usually only advocated for planting long, lanky plants rather than for ALL tomato transplants. It is also often referred to as "trenching" or planting in a horizontal trench.

The current Rodale edition says:

Plant deep, up to the first set of leaves. Tomatoes develop adventitious roots�"roots that originate from the buried stem. A bigger and broader root system helps the plant support a heavy load of fruit. Space plants about 3 feet apart, unless you're using the stake-and-weave support system.

While that is a commonly recommended and quite successful method for dealing with leggy plants that simply can't be effectively planted any other way, I would agree that with normal 6-8" sized transplants it isn't really needed or necessarily beneficial.

But I do agree with Rodale that plants transplanted that way will have the advantage of a much better developed root system because of the roots that develop on the buried stem. While top growth is vital later in the season, it is root development that is most beneficial early in the season.

However, even when used properly it would be difficult to claim that it is detrimental to yields. Again, simply because there are too many other variables. For example, in your zone 4 the decrease in production is easily attributed to the short growing season while in my zone 7 with its much longer growing season the plant has ample time to recover. So while the plant may be a week or two later to bloom and set fruit its overall yield could just as easily be as good or even better than a comparable plant.

Zone 4 tomato growers face some issues that much of the rest of the country doesn't have to deal with and I sure don't envy you those issues. But what doesn't work for one grower or even one zone doesn't mean it can't work well for others.

Just some thoughts for consideration.

Dave

"The current Rodale edition says: Plant deep, up to the first set of leaves."

I'm wondering if this is a case of the OP interpreting "plant to the first set of leaves" as meaning the first set of leaves counting from the top, where Rodale et al meant the first set of leaves counting from the bottom.

Planting the bare stem up to the first set of leaves from the bottom is how I've always interpreted the "plant deep" advice.

Kathy

I only plant up to the first set of leaves, or second set depending on the size of the bush - you need lots of leaves up top to catch the sun and do photosynthesis.

Kathy, at first that's how I interpreted it too but pictures usually show all the leaves off the stem and only the leaves on top remaining. Next time I'll do it your way.

Dave I agree with you. You are right about Rodale's description. But the book also says that it would hold a heavy load of fruit. Now, I'm talking about hybrids and heirlooms. Heirlooms, such as Brandywine, don't yield much fruit to begin with, and that's okay with me because what I don't make in yields I make up in taste. But I find, even with normally heavy fruiting hybrids, the yields are way too low as compared to my neighbors. I really think that climate should be taken into consideration when using this method. Unfortunately, Rodales et al don't mention that.

I agree that your shorter growing season may not be conducive to planting deep! Perhaps doing as containerted does, planting another 2 inches deeper when transplanting, is advisable.

Additionally, unless already consulted, you may want to visit with your neighbor and ask if he/she does anything else that helps to bear fruit early.

Best of luck.

Tom

Interesting
If you think that having a larger root system gives poorer yields why not try pruning some of the roots off? If we pruned them all off would we be over run with big juicy fruit? Probably not.
Containerted said that the more foliage the better yield. I would ask you who think that planting deep to create a larger root system isn't a good idea what it is you need to grow more and larger leaves. ?
I'm thinking more roots.
Lovetogarden, next season try potting on you plants into bigger and bigger pots until it is time to set them out. I will often have mine in a 2 or 3 gallon pot. They will be 6 to 12 inches above the soil and that or more below. When they hit the soil they are ready to take off.
I am guessing if your neighbors are having better results it is other factors that come in to play, and not that they have a smaller root area. And yeah, in a zone 4 you might have to play a few tricks to help them along. With a shorter season maybe you do need more leaf area to start off. I would try a few plants of the same variety with slight variations on planting depth and number of leaves at planting time and compare results. GOOD LUCK.

It depends on the height of seedling, to me. With normal 8 to 10 inch , I would remove one pair of lower true leaves and plant it up to half way from that point to the next pair. Later on, I would hill around the stem a bit and cut maybe another pair , just to provide space for air movement.

I think that between the root system and the top , there has to be a balance. The two need each other for the plant to become established.

I am in zone 4 too. When I pot up my seedling I plant them right past the cotyledons, and then when planting them out snip off the bottom leaves and plant them just a bit deeper than that.

The amount of sun and the quality of the soil are going to make a big difference in your harvest too - its not all about the planting depth. A large root mass isnt going to help that much if there are not enough nutrients in the soil to feed the plant.

I plant deep, up to the first set of leaves. Sometimes I strip those in potting up though if for some reason a seedling got leggy. I think you and others nailed the real problem, different climates aren't the same. I plant deep so I don't have to water as much, and more importantly have healthy plants June-September. It gets so hot and humid here, the deeper, cooler soil absolutely makes a huge difference. For you, that first fruiting is probably far more important than it is for me, since you have to start much later, and your season ends anywhere between 1-2 months before mine.

I agree with Dave that trenching is ideal for long "leggy" plants, it isn't necessary for the ideal 6-10" stocky transplants with a sturdy stem. Until I worked out the right lighting setup several years ago, that was the method I used. Now I start my seeds a bit later (only 6-8 weeks before the usual plant out date) and pot them up one time only into 3" cowpots. They are under timed lights about 16 hours a day, and have fans (also on timer) on them for air movement.

Like Ted, I don't plant much deeper than the seedling was in its container. When I plant, I make a hole just a bit larger than the cowpot and deep enough to put the plant's lowest set of leaves at or near gound level (I might clip the lowest set of leaves), drop the plant in, back fill and water. As the plant grows, if leaves or branches are touching the soil or mulch, I'll trim them off.

I hope that helps, but your mileage may vary. (All those conditions and such, LOL!)

Betsy

This post was edited by bets on Mon, Jun 3, 13 at 11:55

I planted all of mine 5-6" deep. They're doing spectacular and had no stress at all. Flowering like crazy and growing like weeds.

Don't be quick to attribute your tomato problems to deep planting. It makes sense that a high yield needs the support of a strong root system. There are many variables involved. Do you have bees coming to your yard to pollinate? Tomatoes are hungry and thirsty plants and they will sulk and hold back if not satisfied.

It's probably the "remove all lower leaves"-part that slowed growth and maturity.
As containerted mentioned, leaves make food for the plants, more food == more growth.
Also, nutrients (n-p-k and a few others) are mobile. The plant can transfer those nutrients from one part to another, usually from old/dying leaves to newer growth. Think of the leaves as nutrient reservoirs. If soil nutrients are low or nutrient uptake is inadequate, couple that with lack of foliage, then health and yield may suffer.

"And isn't the point of growing tomatoes to actually get tomatoes and not necessarily just a stronger healther plant?"

Yes, but you can't have good fruit production without a strong, healthy plant. It's not a matter of choosing one over the other.

I start my seedlings under lights in the basement. The first leaves of those plants are pretty nice, but nowhere near as big and healthy as the leaves which develop later when the plants are growing in the ground under sunlight.

Yes, I do harden off my seedlings. But a leaf which has completed it's growth under lights on a small plant will not resume growth and become as large and lush as those which will grow outdoors later on a large plant. Once the plants are outdoors they immediately begin to new leaves which are suited to the new conditions.

So, when the time comes to set out the seedlings, the oldest (lower) leaves have served their purpose. New, larger, healthier leaves grow quickly at the top of the plant and take over the role of making food for the plant. Because tomatoes readily form adventitious roots, I remove the lower, less productive leaves and plant deeply.

I have never understood the concept of one part of the plant robbing other parts of energy. I believe roots, leaves and stems support each other mutually and must grow proportionally. One part of the plant does not succeed at the expense of the others. If it were so, the ideal tomato plant would be a bunch of leafless, stemless, rootless fruit sitting on the ground.

Jim

This post was edited by jimster on Mon, Jun 3, 13 at 22:13

Dave has hit the nail on the head here.

A lot of the above posters haven't put their zones in there I.D. line for some reason. Those that have, and are proponents of deep planting, are often in warmer zones than zone 4. The soil is so cold 10 inches below the surface in my zone 3/4, that most root growth before July is horizontal rather than vertical. when I pull up my dead plants in the fall, it is very apparent that most root growth has been in the top 10 inches of the soil, and 18 to 24 inches in every direction.

To get a better understanding of this concept, take it to the extreme. Most of zone 1 won't allow any plants to even survive if the plant requires that there roots go deeper than about 1 foot. Even if permafrost isn't present.

I agree with the O.P. that the gardening books have made a fatal error on tomato planting techniques by not addressing zones at the same time. Tomatoes are basically a tropical plant and they don't get a lot of benefit from 50 degree soil.

If I want to plant a leggy tomato deeper, I lay the leggy plant, pot and all, on it's side for a couple of days before planting. The plant"s top will start to turn vertical. You can then take off many of the lower leaves and plant it semi-horizontally. Everything will stay in the warmer soil.

Zones are critically important to growing most plants. For those of you that haven't put their zone in their permanent heading, please do so. Your comments or questions will be a lot easier to understand if we know where you are growing.

"Do you have bees coming to your yard to pollinate?"

Tomatoes are self pollinating and don't need bees or any other insect to produce fruit.

Betsy

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Pollination

Planting deep is good advice for long season areas so long as the soil temp at planting depth is above 60 degrees. The root system will develop deeper which contributes to more fruit production. Do not plant deep any time the soil temperature is below 60 degrees. This applies to early season plantings in southern climates and most plantings in northern climates. The low temperature is equivalent to putting your feet in an ice water bath for the plant.

When you are dealing with cold soil temperatures, mound the soil up 6 to 8 inches high, then cover it with black plastic. Set a plant into the top of the mound through the plastic, putting it about half the length of the stem into the soil. As temperatures rise, remove the plastic and mound soil up around the plant until another 4 to 6 inches has been added to the mound. The black plastic will absorb heat and transfer it to the soil mound. The mound will warm up faster when the sun shines and cool down slower during rain.

DarJones

I half remembered this deep planting advice from my father in law about 30 years ago. So this year I planted deep but forgot to remove the bottom set of leaves. Seriously. Remembered after a few days but decided it would be worse to dig them back up. Luckily no ill effects. They are all off and running and doing well about a month later.
This is the first veggie garden I have had in about 20 years so I have been reading GW like mad.