Danielle, on Park Seed ($2.50) they say Limelight plants grow to 3' x 3' but on Specialty Perennials ($3.95) site they say plants grow to only 18" tall. I'm confused...maybe Park Seed is reflecting "size at maturity" in zones 8-11. I know my plants didn't get much over 18" but since they weren't in full sun the stalk laid on the ground reaching for sunlight. Anyway, I'm going to order a new pack of seeds AND dig up the Limelight tubers I've got. I'm going to get that lighter foliage one way or another...LOL. Pat, thanks so much for the seed offer :)...collecting the little black bb's from these plants is fun except I drop more than I catch when I tap or tip the flower cluster! Leslie

I will admit I have a container of Round-Up in the shed, however, it has been in there for four years and is still half full, so you can see we don't use it often. In my beds, I pull the weeds. I have a Cape Cod weeder that is very effective, and I sometimes use a scuffle hoe. In the cracks of the bricks, I use my FLAME THROWER! Yippeeeee! I do love that little device. The weeds die and do not come back any time soon. EXCEPT!! FOR!! NUT SEDGE!!! That stuff is back an inch tall the very next morning! ARRRGGGHHH. So I use a paint brush and apply Round Up ONLY to the blades of that stupid stuff. That way, I can really control where the application and what it kills. And it seems to work fine on the nut grass. It takes about two days and then it starts to wither away. And it is usually some months before I see any peeking out again. It does come back eventually, because the amount I use is probably not getting all the way down to the roots/tubers underground. But I'm okay with doing it about twice a year to keep it under control. In the meantime, if you haven't tried a weed burner, I say give it a whirl. I LOVE mine! Very effective, if I don't get it too close to the edge of the flower bed. Marcia

Sorry. This will be a long one. It always is with me. (blushing) I'm with the OP on this one. Even if no one but me ever saw my lawn, I would want it to be dark, rich green GRASS...and nothing else. (I'm known for wanting everything to be beautiful. I'm also a bit of a home body, and enjoy spending time in my yard. Many guests have remarked that, no matter where they look (on my property), there's always something beautiful. I'm always taken aback by those comments, since while that was MY goal, I never expected others to pick up on it.) Case in point about the intentional act of putting down grass, and not other (lower maintenance) plants. I own a small, remote island. I made the decision to create a lawn area and, once you include the slow-moving barge fees (3 days to get from its port to the island), labour, equipment, and materials, that lawn cost me $14,000. That obviously begs the question, why, on earth, would anyone spend a nickel putting in expensive, high-maintenance grass, only to let it be taken over by clover and other weeds??? My husband and I recently purchased a 19th century farmhouse in need of roof-to-foundation renovation. As such, I inherited a lawn that is EASILY 70% weeds, including clover so thoroughly interwoven, it would be impossible to pull by hand. I pride myself on my beautiful lawns and gardens, and can spend/have sent hours, each day, ensuring everything is healthy and how I want it. At my last home, I developed a bit of a reputation for being out weeding my lawn by hand for hours, plus how awesome my expansive lawn was. My point is, I want my lawn and gardens to be a certain way; plant the plants I want; pull the plants I don't want; unafraid to put-in the effort to achieve that. I prefer not to use any kinds of "chemicals", other than the ammonia and mild soap I include in my homemade fertilizer recipe. (My last home was a beach house. So, that only reinforced my desire to go chemical-free.) But this new-to-me house is demoralizing me...practically to the point of tears, much of it because of the state of the (laughing) "landscaping". Sure, mowing can cut off 60% of the sea of clover flowers that make my lawn look white (or dying...can't decide which). But there are still lower flowers that seem to sprout up to full height within the next 24hrs after a mow. These flowers last from late spring to fall. In short, I'm plagued by clover flowers throughout the entire season I want my lawn to look great. It's just such a shame the previous owners didn't nip the clover in the bud, when each plant was jut a little, round cluster. I love catching them early, knowing I've stopped additional infiltration. But I'm helpless, overall. Looks like I'll have to replace the entire lawn; start from scratch; do what the previous owners SHOULD have done, and pulled weeds when I first see them. I'm not really buying the whole "benefits of clover" thing, amidst a grass lawn. If I wanted a clover lawn, I would plant a clover lawn. Putting down and maintaining grass is an expense in time and resources. Clover is virtually free (since it shows up on the wind), and is seemingly mantenance-free. Since most sod and grass seed are sold with some guarantee of being weed- (and clover-) free, I just don't believe that most people who spend the money and effort to put in a grass lawn, are okay with losing any percentage of it to other, invasive, undesirable plants. I kind of liken it to suggesting that a Ferrari owner would be okay with someone switching it with a Cavalier, and just saying, 'They both get me from point A to point B, so I don't mind.' I can fully envision putting in other kinds of ground cover, and have considered it at past properties. Not being my first rodeo, I already have substantial plans to reduce the amount of lawn area, and increase planting beds. But much of this current property begs for a beautiful, thick, dark green lawn...of grass. No dandelions. No clover, but particularly no clover flowers. (I'd be more okay with clover, if not for the flowers.) The desperation was so great, I did something I thought I'd never do, and tried the iron-based WEED-B-GONE product. (Harsh, chemical herbicides have been banned in my area for years...resulting in public parks being taken over by weeds, for the most part. It's such a shame, in the sense that a healthy, well-maintained lawn is not only beautiful, but fantastic underfoot.) That is really my philosophy, beyond the aesthetic. A lawn should be cool, soft, and luxurious under bare feet. Weeds, even overgrown grass, also tend to make barefoot walking less than a joy. So far, I haven't found a way to get rid of mats of clover. The WEED-B-GONE did nothing I could notice. I'm at my rope's end on ths matter, and likely will have to pull up the entire lawn, to put down new, almost-weed-free sod, where I can physically manage pulling individual weeds as they appear. I guess I'd plead with people to pull unwanted clover plants when they're small... if not for yourself, then for the next property owner. Sure, it means time, every day, or every few days, combing the lawn, looking for weeds. Yes, it can be back-breaking and time-consuming. But that grass lawn didn't get there by accident. A grass lawn is intentional.

Thank you, Henry for that link. Very good info. from Dr. Kuska's link: "Dr. Kremer further shared his thoughts on the big claim of the biotech industry that we need GMOs to feed the world. He also discussed their claim of decreased use of pesticides. There has been a 527 million pound increase in pesticide use since the introduction of transgenic crops." More info. from Dr. Kremer, a soil microbiology professor: " They noticed that every time that they checked this GMO crop that the roots were loaded up with the fungus, Fusarium. Fusarium is a fungus that can be potentially pathogenic. He said his concern was that here we have this new release of crops that are tolerant to Glyphosate yet their root system are piled up with this fungi. He has evaluated several GMO crops over the past 17 years and continues to see increased fungi on their roots." I wish people would quit messing up nature, or what God has created. I find out that I'm allergic to the oil-wax used to coat citrus fruits (esp. lemons). When I use ORGANIC lemons without the oily wax, I have no problems. I find out that they also use cottonseed oil and fungicides to wax lemons. I have a history of being allergic to preservatives such as fungicides Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate in foods. To be safe, I no longer dunk lemons into water like I used to. Here's an excerpt from below link: " There are 21 fruits and vegetables that may be waxed: apples, avocados, bell peppers, cantaloupes, cucumbers, eggplants, grapefruits, lemons, limes, melons, oranges, parsnips, passion fruits, peaches, rutabagas, tomatoes and turnips. The waxes sometimes contain fungicides. Both the waxes and the fungicides are used to prevent spoilage, the former to retard moisture loss and prevent shriveling, the latter to prevent mold. Any fungicide allowed on the produce as it is grown may also be applied after harvesting, whether under the wax, in combination with it or alone. Seven fungicides are approved for use on food crops after harvesting. Of those only one, benomyl, has undergone a complete review by the EPA. Others are: thiabendazole, ortho-phenylphenol, sodium ortho-phenyl phenate, imazalil, dicloran and sodium borate. The EPA has classified benomyl a possible human carcinogen. In test animals, the chemical has caused birth defects, low sperm counts and mutations. Benomyl is registered for post-harvest use on apples, apricots, bananas, cherries, citrus fruits, mushrooms, nectarines, peaches, pears, pineapples and plums, either with wax or alone." http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/32358/does-wax-on-citrus-fruit-make-the-zest-unsafe-to-eat-or-compromise-its-flavor Another excerpt from above link to solve the problem with wax on citrus fruits, which impart a bitter taste to the citrus zest. "I've always just used warm (not hot) water, dish soap, and a soft brush to de-wax before zesting, and I've always been happy with the results. However, this question made me curious; in addition to beeswax, apparently carnauba (familiar from the carwash) and shellac are allowed."