I don't know about worm tea, but I did make a few dozen 55gal rain barrels last summer. Don't go to Home Depot for parts. If you have a Tractor Supply or live in the Midwest and have a Farm & Fleet or Fleet Farm, get part from there cheaper. $12 bulkhead connectors (to connect a hose) from Home Depot are like $2 at the other places in the Agriculture/plumbing section.

I'm thinking that with 55 gallons of liquid you'll probably need more VC and more bubblers. The more bubbling action the better up to a point that you don't want to rip all that new biology to shreds.

Also, my experience is that you'll trash-can the air stones pretty quickly. They are a nuisance to keep clean and don't disperse the O2 any better. You can tee off the hoses to spread the oxygen more.

cb2

Oops.....

About how long to brew: it's all gonna depend on the amount of oxygen and dispersal of it. I know you'll need longer than 24 hours so 48 is probably a good starting point.

You probably should re-feed the biology about 1/2 way thru brewing. When the molasses smell dissipates, adding some more is good.

cb2

I agree with chuckie on the amount of VC, double it. Also I was going to use panty hose, then it was suggested that might restrict some of microbes from able to get thru so I went to a paint strainer bag. Just a thought.

For a 55gal drum Im assuming you have a larger pump as a simple aquarium pump might not get the job done.

I have not brewed tea but I agree with the air stone report. Are you going to spray all the barrel at once? Better to brew 5 gallons a day and spray 5 gallons a day than a whole barrel once a month.

Well, guess I like a strong cup of tea.

I make 5 gallon batches, using about 1/2 gallon of castings and 1/2 cup molasses. Using the largest stones and a 4-port bubbler, it usually takes 20-30 hours. When it is warm enough outside, I am greeted in the morning with 8" thick foam spewing onto the ground. It reminds me of a giant root-beer float! I use and reuse 5 gallon paint strainers bought cheap. The tea is used straight or diluted up to 4:1 depending on the needs. I apply this with a watercan as foliar feed/ soil drench.. The tea strainings are a worm favorite!!!

First the disclaimers:
1) I am new to "worming",
2) I've never made worm "tea" (I think it should be called worm kombucha or worm beer since it is fermented :) ),

I, and my friends, make a beer on a regular basis. As I have read through the myriad threads on "brewing tea", I have consistently had two musings:
1) Fish culturists have know for a very long time that the actual value of "bubbling" is only to move water. The oxygen transfer from the surface of the bubbles is insignificant relative to the oxygen transfer at the surface. Change the water at the surface (move it) and you maximize oxygen transfer. Bubbling is an INDIRECT method of moving water. Why not go direct? Simply pump the liquid instead of pumping air. That is MUCH more efficient use of energy and transfer of oxygen. By the way, oxygen content (partial pressure) in water is HIGHLY temperature dependent. The colder the water the higher the oxygen partial pressure in the water.

2) Clearly the sugar added (most often molasses) is just "food" for fermenters. If you're gonna feed sugar, why not add a spoonful of brewer's yeast and forget the mechanical aeration/agitation. There is no MECHANICAL "agitation" necessary when brewing beer or wine I assure you, but there is VERY vigorous 'natural' agitation due to the gasses produced by the fermenting yeast. There shouldn't be concern about production of ethanol, because that's clearly what is happening with the current methods, else there wouldn't need for added sugar and there wouldn't be a "head" of foam.

For what it's worth from a complete novice, I wouldn't add ANY 'sugar' in ANY form. I'd add water to the VC; mechanically pump the liquid - not too vigorously; let set until it showed "signs of life"; and "use". All the sugar is really doing is creating ethanol from the existing fermenters - almost certainly yeasts.

While adding sugar to VC liquid will certainly increase the number of fermenters up to the point that the ethanol reaches toxic levels (for them, not us, :) ), are "you" really after an increased number of fermenters? (That's NOT a rhetorical question.) I suppose that's why folks say not to ferment the concoction more than 24 hours. Still, I can't understand why it gets fermented AT ALL, OR, do it SERIOUSLY. "Middle of the road" sounds a lot like voodoo to me. BUT... I acknowledge again, that I am speaking from practical ignorance and only technical training. I could be convinced that there is some beneficial reason for accelerating the fermentation then stopping it before the fermenters reach a max, usually in about 72 hours.

I guess for me, I need someone to explain why "plain" diluted VC - or even diluted VC "steeped" for a day or two - isn't as "good" as fermented VC.

Paul

Maybe that is why the old timers before blubbers 1929? used to say stir, stir, stir. Either it got oxygen in or spread around the bacteria and food supply.

No reason we can't compare and contrast to brewing other things.

As a fishy person I agree bubbling is only to move water to get oxygen at the surface and the bubble surface area themselves are minor addition.

I also do not have brewing experience so will defer to those that do.

The reason not to add sugar is to not encourage the e-coli as per that knowledgeable lady who used to post here.

But hey maybe they used different techniques than our brewers here. Maybe just having e-coli is not horrible because there are so many good bacteria that overwhelm the bad just like in our intestines. That is how it works. It would be unrealistic to think it was different.

Should the pump shoot the water into the air, onto the surface, across the surface, underwater up towards the surface, use two pumps for circular water movement from most to least oxygen and back?

Probably air is the choice because of lower start up costs and the ability to move multiple air tubes into various water containers as needs change. $30 for one pump or $30 for 6 different lines. Maybe a power head would hurt the weebeasties where as an energetic bubble tickles them.

I read somewhere an old vermicompost brewer bet a teen to drink the brew and he did and was fine.

Perhaps brewing works because of something like the reason homeopathic preparations have to be shaken just before taking a dose to activate them. Maybe it is not the weebeasties at all but merely their residual energy signatures. Maybe it is something like Preparation 500, 501 etc. packed into the cow horns and buried until spring.

When brewing AVCT, our job is to supply food and oxygen to the biology we're expanding at staggering rates of growth. The bubbler action supples the oxygen and also stirs the biology to all areas of the brewer.

UNSULPHURED molasses is used as the food source in lieu of refined sugar because sulphur and the biology we're inducing to multiply like crazed rabbits on PED's don't get along.

Because massive amounts of biology are being produced, massive amounts of both O2 & the food source are needed. Steeping ain't gonna achieve that. Neither is stirring it with a stick.

cb2

Sounds a lot like voodoo...

The E. coli in our guts are not "overwhelmed" by the "good" bacteria. E. coli are not "bad" in the proper - our intestine - environment. (Qualified by stating that nowadays, thanks to bacteriologists and geneticists, there are strains of E. coli that are harmful where ever they inhabit the gut.)

There's no big deal about how to move water across the surface. Also, "fish" water pumps are not much more expensive than air pumps these days, and use energy for the purpose of "aeration" MUCH more efficiently than air pumps. Furthermore, "there ain't no sech thang as a free lunch". Ganging bubbling tubes isn't simply a matter of adding a manifold and more air stones. CHEAP air pumps barely pump enough air to make a SMALL air-stone work at anything deeper than 6". A small water pump that draws the same amperage as a cheap air pump can EASILY move more water than necessary to maximize oxygen partial pressure at any given ambient temperature suitable for raising worms (50 to 80 degrees F).

I THINK the reason everyone talks about "oxygen" so much is not because oxygen is "good", but rather than NO oxygen - "anaerobic" - is usually "bad" not only because it promotes growth of "bad" bacteria, but even some common, and non-poisonous bacteria produce toxins in an anaerobic environment. The best way to minimize the possibility of "going anaerobic" is to aerate.

All of this has piqued my interest. I think some personal experimentation and research are necessary for me to 'let this go'. At this point in time, I'd be inclined to mix up the "wort", stir occasionally for two to three days, and "call it good". I have available some pre-agared Petri dishes. I may see what 'grows' in "sugared" vs non-sugared and aerated and non-aerated "brews". I do not have the ability to determine exactly what the 'critters' that grow are, but I do have the ability to determine densities and gram-negative vs gram positive.

Paul

PS - The reason I put quotation marks around "aerobic" and "anaerobic" is becauseI never really cared for those terms to be used in the context of presence or absence of oxygen. "Aerobic" means "air", not oxygen. The more informative terms are oxygenated and anoxic.
I'm not trying to be stuffy, but written communications are difficult enough without introducing confusion by way of casual use of technical terms. I fully acknowledge that "aerobic" and "anaerobic" are completely ensconced in the vernacular as meaning "with" oxygen and without" it. That acknowledgement only slightly mitigates the potential for confusion. Another of my pet peeves is the misuse of "accuracy" and "precision". I have given up spitting into that wind. I just get spit in my eye...

I promise not to mention this again unless some confusion arises. :)

Paul

Thanks chuckiebtoo. We were composing at the same time. I don't THINK anything going on in VC "tea" is any more biologically active than that going on in a wine or beer vat, so I have my doubts about:

"Steeping ain't gonna achieve that. Neither is stirring it with a stick."

"Life", especially micro"life" is damned persistent in its ability to get into small places with little effort. That said, I'm willing to be convinced of the need to agitate. Is there some literature that you can point me to that looked at the density of microbes produced per unit time with and without agitation?

Please don't misunderstand my question. I am not challenging you or suggesting that I don't believe you. I would simply like to see the research that makes those claims so I can evaluate their methods and conclusions. The reason being that in areas where I DO have some experience growing microbes, vigorous agitation is never necessary, and "naturally occurring" agitation is often preferred. Considering the biological 'soup' we're starting with, I'm just surprised that oxygenation or feeding or agitation are required for maximum growth or best results.

Paul

Anybody using air pumps keep them above water level. The other thing they used to say was to keep the electric cord with a dip in it in case water follows it. A Ground Fault Interrupter outlet would be a good choice.

The most respected compost tea site I follow is, for some unknown reason, banned by GardenForums (they think it is advertising & it simply is not) so I can't give you the web address.

But, if you google yahoo and then compost_tea, you'll be able to get there.

Lots of PHD's, and doctors, and microscopers there. I've been following, and adhering to the info, for a long time.

cb2

To see if I arrived at the right place, is Dr. Elaine Ingham a prime contributor to the site you reference?

Paul

Yes, my inspiration to "tea", the respected Dr Ingham is there.

Where? Another try: compost_tea@y----groups.com

cb

oops, I left off the "s" on 'groups' earlier.

This post was edited by chuckiebtoo on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 13:21

I looked at the other one first, but it didn't look like a forum.

I'll read through the one with Dr. Ingham.

Thanks,
Paul

Wow !
Interesting !
Digression: I spent the morning releasing mason bees from straws. Back to worms and testing tea on tomatoes later.

Barbara