Al's 5-1-1 mix and tomatoes in containers

15 years ago

I finally bought all the ingredients for Al's 5-1-1 basic mix today from OSH:

- Sun Land redwood soil conditioner for the pine bark fines

- perlite

- OSH brand sphagnum peat moss

I am going to mix it in 5:1:1 ratio and wet them overnight. Then plant my tomatoes in this.

My question is do I need to add anything more to this mix for planting my tomatoes in, from your experience? Like any fertilizers? Please advise.

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Comments (5)

korney19
15 years ago
Redwood soil conditioner?
OSH brand?

Is this a California thing, like Happy Cows?

Please explain.

matermark
pennyrile
14 years ago
Sunland Redwood Soil Conditioner appears to be basically composted wood chips and bark fines. If this is the case, then yes, you'd have to add fertilizer to what you are describing as basically a soilless growing medium.

Your addition of fertilizer can be in the form of time released granules, periodic and regular liquid applications, or a combination.
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Around here the pine bark mix at Home Depot that works is the #302 Golden Trophy bags. I've been using this for the last 4 or 5 years. The only problem is that the #302 bags vary significantly from pallet to pallet. You need to check an open bag and make sure. If the chunks are small then the entire pallet is probably OK. If not the bags in the entire pallet is not usable. I got burned this year in my first buy and had to unload all the bags to someone's in ground garden (after a harsh winter I wasn't thinking straight :-). The bags were wet and the chunks seemed small after a quick inspection but after getting them home they stunk (which I heard was not good) and had a lot of sticks and bigger chunks hidden in them. A week later I went to a different Home Depot and found a pallet of perfect #302 pine bark and loaded up as many bags that will fit into the van. A couple of years ago the good pallet of #302 was behind a bad pallet which required me to climb over the bad pallet to get to the good pallet. The employees at Home Depot must have thought I was nuts. Last year I found #302 Golden Trophy at Menards with the same pallet to pallet differences but this year Menards doesn't seem to carry it.
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5:1:1 would be like a good computer motherboard, a skillful person can unlock the potential of a good motherboard. When I started learning assembled computer and overclocking I destroyed a lot of motherboards, I was not able to use the full potential of the motherboard because I was an inexperienced beginner. I spent a lot of time and money and finally somewhat I am able to do what I'd like to do with my machine, that's I enjoy now :-). So if you have skill may be you can unlock the potential of your plants, it is up to your skill of container gardening. Overclocked CPU are void warrantee we know that but to use the full potential of the machine we use a lot of difference means and methods. Just like adding lime, slow release fertilizer ....whatever you called to 5:1:1. The time changed the means and methods of overclocking as well as 5:1:1 won't remain just like the time it has been created, I think. It should be changed according to the climatic condition and the growing environment and the type of plants we grow. To unlock the potential of container plants, 5:1:1 has been created and then started to tweak it to make it works it is natural for those people who loves it, just like overclocking. One of our forum members TheMasterGardener gave his opinion last year about 5:1:1 I consider he is right. I know very well how many of our active forum members support this 5:1:1. As a hobby container gardener I have been trying to get some useful information from the different opinions to grow my plants better :-). too bad very selfish :-). I do not know how bad are those potting soil available in the markets over there but the potting soil we have here is very much acceptable. Before I am here I used it without much problems. The problems we have here is mainly cold climate and sunshine. I have been in so many different forums only here 5:1:1 is keep doing discussion so there must be a good reason, I think. The issues with Al's 5-1-1 mix should be solved by your skillful application of the advice you got here. Please do not be serious, just I share my opinion. I encourage whoever likes to try new things. Good luck Caelian
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Bingo! That is where I get mine. The regular pine bark mulch in the blue bag is very good. They also sell 1/2 and 1/4 inch hardware cloth (wire) if you did want to sift. http://myagway.com/catalog/product/117217/agway-pine-bark-mulch-3-cuft#.WH-mdSMrKiY I also found some nice soil conditioner in Stauffers. I bought a bag to see what it was like, and it was partially composted. Perfect for 5-1-1. I went back to get a few more bags, and someone had bought the rest of the pallet! Luckily they got more. I'll have to look at the bag and post what the brand is.
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digdirt2
14 years ago
sonaliagrawal - I'm not sure but I think this is one of those custom recipe mixes they talk about over on the Container Gardening forum, right?

Since your question is about the mix itself, the best place to to ask about it would be on that forum where the folks who actually use it could help you.

As a general rule, yes, as penny already said, you do have to add fertilizers to home-made mixes.

Dave
ragtimegal
14 years ago
Hi sonaliagrawal-

I am using this mix as well. The recommendation is to fertilize weakly, weekly. I believe at about 1/3 - 1/4 strength fertilizer. There is a thread in the container forum specifically about fertilizing in this mix.

There is A LOT of discussion about organic vs non organic fertilizing in containers, so you'll have to read up and decide what is right for you. The amount above references using a fertilizer such as MG.

I just put a post up about trying to get better in-ground tomato plants, as all of my plants in this mix in containers are doing very well, and my in-ground plants aren't nearly as happy.

Oh, and don't forget to add the dolomitic lime!! :o) Check the recipe to get an idea of what is appropriate for your container size and volume of mix. I ended up with about 8 Tbsp. per container, and I have 15 gallon containers. (not 18 gallons...made a mistake in my other post)

If justaguy is around in this forum, I believe that he grows tomatoes in this mix and may be able to comment on it.

Good luck!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Fertilization thread re: container plants
justaguy2
14 years ago
You have to be careful about the wood. If you are using pine/fir bark you are fine. If you are using part bark, part sapwood you may be looking at a nitrogen immobilization problem as the sapwood ties up N as it breaks down. The reason for using pine bark as the basis of a mix is that is breaks down very slowly (much slower than peat). By using sapwood, the slow decomp is negated and N immobilization can/likely will occur.

In any event, fertilizer is absolutely required in containers as the mix has no real store of nutrients to sustain the plants.

Normally a fertilizer in a 3:1:3 ratio would be good, but if your mix contains sapwood you might choose 3:1:2 instead such as Miracle Grow 24-8-16 to try to offset the N immobilization from the sapwood. It's a bit of a guessing game if your mix contains sapwood as the N tied up by the decomp of the sapwood will be released at some point.

Al's 5-1-1 mix and tomatoes in containers

Comments (5)

korney19

pennyrile

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