You are right that is pricey. You should be able to find them at about half that price. They are a bit more expensive than many type, but not 4 times the price.

I dunno about getting them much cheaper.

Google "Sungold Tomato Seeds" and I think you'll see that isn't way out of line.

If they are the real Sun Gold F1 seeds, yes 3.00 for 8 seeds is a good deal when buying directly at a garden store, since you're not paying an additional shipping and handling fee.

I mean, how many Sun Gold plants do you plan on growing anyway? If just a couple or three, then there should be no problem paying 3.00 for 8 seeds and sharing any spare plants with a friend.

Thompson & Morgan sells what I believe to be the best quality Sun Gold seeds I've ever bought, and I think I paid 4.99 for 15 seeds; but I got them in an order with some open pollinated and other hybrid seeds from Italy, and T & M is very generous with the seed count on many of their seeds. It's just that Sun Gold seems to be very expensive no matter where you buy them.

GardenMax has 30 seeds for $4.65

Hirts Gardens has 20 seeds for $2.99

Burpee has 30 seeds for $4.95

So no, 8 seeds for $2.99 is not a good deal.

Dave

Dave, how much is shipping and handling at each of those places? S & H isn't applicable at a garden center.

And last year, the Sun Gold seeds I got from Burpee threw tart red cherries. Only ordered plants from Hirts before, and never heard of Garden Max.

I think one of the messages posted above indicates you should look at Totally Tomatoes for a price below 8/2.99 :::wink:::

Well it depends on how many plants you want and if you are able to save seeds from one year to the next as most of us do if you don't use them all.

30 seeds even with added shipping is still a better deal than 8 seeds for 2.99. 8x$2.99=$23.92 for 32 seeds vs. $4.65 or 4.95+shipping for 30.

Sorry you haven't had any experience with the others - Hirts sells seeds as well as plants - or a bad experience with Burpee but I have never heard of Armstrong's either. ;)

All I did was pull prices off Google search to answer the question. I'm not pushing any of them but no, I don't agree that 8 seeds for $2.99 is a good deal.

Dave

valueseeds.com has sungold, 10 seeds for $.99 plus
shipping.

Dave

FWIW, your calculations are a bit off! Eight packages of 8 seeds = 64 seeds, not 32.

I calculate the cost differently, cost per seed with S&H included:

$2.99 for 8 seeds, no S&H = $.35 per seed, without tax.

GardenMax has 30 seeds for $4.65 + $4.95 S&H = $9.60 / 30 seeds = $.32 per seed.

Hirts Gardens has 20 seeds for $2.99 + 4.95 S&H = $7.94 / 20 seeds = $.40 per seed.

Burpee has 30 seeds for $4.95 + 4.95 S&H = 9.90 / 30 seeds = $.33 per seed.

Anyway, the differences are miniscule once you add shipping/handling. That S&H cost can be minimized, of course, by ordering enough other seeds from the vendor that will be covered by the $4.95 shipping fee (or whatever the cost is).

Armstrong's is a local southern California nursery, a pretty good one. BUT $2.99 for 8 Sun Gold seeds is OUTRAGEOUS! If you have to have them like yesterday, well OK, pay the premium. I bought 30 seeds for $3.50 from Tomato Growers Supply. Even with the shipping this is a much better deal, and you'll have seeds left over for future years as well as for trading with nice people on this forum.

You probably could get 8 Sun Gold seeds FREE just for asking for them in the GW seed exchange forum.

Ahhh excellent point Anney! Thanks for the correction as it has been a long time since math was my forte (like never). Your math makes it much more clear. ;)

Dave

Dave

I know what you mean about math. I couldn't even add without Excel!

Remember when people complained that the young never learned to do sums "in their heads" once calculators were allowed in schools? Now it's computers. "In my head" seems so laborious now and often wrong unless I write things down. It's quicker to type!

BTW, Elspie

You are right. That SunGold deal at Value Seeds is the F1, not the OP version, and they say ten seeds are $.99 and shipping is $1.99, regardless of order size.

That's a GREAT deal!

Here is a link that might be useful: SunGold Tomato

Johnny's Seeds

40 seed @ $3.95 plus $3.95 shipping = $.20 per seed
250 seed @ $12.35 plus $3.95 shipping = $.07 per seed

Since properly stored seed can last 10 years, maybe we should get together and make a buy.

BOTTOM LINE: ARE THESE HYBRID SEEDS WORTH THE EXTRA MONEY?
IS THERE A HEIRLOOM AS GOOD?

Splitting hairs and saving money can be fun.

John

Last year I thought Sungold seed was expensive so I bought some Sungold Select, which is an OP variety that is supposedly de-hybridized from Sungold. I have never grown or eaten Sungold so I don't have any way to compare, but I was dissapointed in the Sungold Select. I have leftover seed so I'll try again this year, and if it doesn't work out I'll buy the real Sungold next year.

Bob

To put the cost (which IMO is stupidly high) if I go to the store, the artificially ripened, taste like cardboard toms are $4.69 per pound. A decent tomato plant will produce at least 25 pounds of fruit. If only four seeds germinate and produce nicely, that's 100 pounds of tomatoes.

Then again, I tend to buy seeds that are from $1.50-3.00 for 35 or more seeds. The average person would never be able to tell hardly any difference in taste.

Mike

I bought my seeds from TGS last year as well. It was with several other varieties, so the per pack shipping cost was low.

I must say though that these seeds are worth the price. I had two plants, and at the hight of the growing season, I wa picking nearly a 100 tomatoes a day off of two plants. The plants got huge at nearly 10 feet each, and even with all those tomatoes coming off daily, I could not keep any on the counter. The wife and kids (and myself too) were eating them by the handfuls, so yeah, I say they are worth it.

jj

Californian, was the supplier Botanical Interests, and did the package actually say "8 plants" (after thinning)? That's the seed I used last year. I planted 3 seedlings and usually put 3 seeds in a pot and thin down to one. I have about 12 seeds left over, so that suggests there were 20+ seeds originally. And it is the hybrid, according to the package.

Here is a link that might be useful: Did the package look like this?

Californian, was the supplier Botanical Interests, and did the package actually say "8 plants" (after thinning)? That's the seed I used last year. I planted 3 seedlings and usually put 3 seeds in a pot and thin down to one. I have about 12 seeds left over, so that suggests there were 20+ seeds originally. And it is the hybrid, according to the package. Produced quite nicely, by the way.

Here is a link that might be useful: Did the package look like this?

Yes, I think it was Botanical Interests brand, because the Black Krim seeds I bought there were that brand. I think I will go back and buy the Sungold seed package and count how many seeds are actually in the package. If there are really twenty seeds and they are allowing for only 40% of them sprouting I guess that's worth the price, especially now that the replies to my question indicate Sungold seeds are expensive no matter where you buy them.
BTW, with my almost pure clay soil my tomato plants never produce huge crops, the roots just can't get through it even though over the years I have amended the soil with probably fifty cubic yards of compost and several tons of gypsum and hundreds of bags of store bought potting soil and planting mix.

Sungold Select, which is an OP variety that is supposedly de-hybridized from Sungold.

Sungold select is an OP variety that was selected out from Sungold F1. It is definitely not as good as Sungold which is
most evident when tasted side by side.

Sungold Select II is another selection from Sungold F1 which is
much closer to the the hybrid in terms of size, shape, productivity, and flavor. However, it is still missing that special something Sungold F1 has to offer......

I have a co-worker who prefers the Sungold Select II because
it has a much more tomato taste to it than the fruity taste
associated with Sungold F1.

My kids like them both....

Lee

Californian:
My soil is also clay, as in "making adobe bricks" material, and I have many huge crops, depending upon the variety. (We are off-topic here, but, hey, you're the original poster, so I'm sure you're fine with it)
I would say you are not getting huge crops either because (1) Too much fertilizer making all plant and no fruit; or (2) The varieties you choose; or (3) your roots are being decimated by nematodes livving in the soil. I can't imagine it's because the roots can't get into the clay, especially with all those amendments.
If you DON'T get a huge crop from Sungold, then there really is something wrong, because mine usually grow to at least 16 feet tall (literally).

Carla in Sac

Way off topic, but Carla... what do you do/use to manage a 16' plant? Do you let it sprawl or what?

Carla, how does one get rid of nematodes if that is the problem?

Californian-- it's really hard to deal with nematodes, and I haven't been very successful myself. A lot of mulch helps,
but I usually just plant either varieties which can power through it, or the ones that can't, I just assume I'll only get a couple of tomatoes before they croak. One suggestion in a previous post was a cover crop of mustard to trap them, and I'm going to try some this summer to see if it helps. I have tried Elbon Rye, beneficial insects and French Marigolds, but those didn't do much.
Azruss-- I use a combination of rebar, and cages I made out of 5 foot cattle fencing, for my tomato supports. My Sungolds always need a second 5 footer on top, and they still grow up and over the top, then trail down to the ground. The bigger problem with Sungolds is that they escape the 2 foot wide cages out the sides. I keep tucking them back in, but it gets pretty crowded in there. Mmmmm, there's nothing like a ripe, August Sungold just a little dehydrated from the summer sun. (dreaming...)

Carla in Sac

Well I went back and bought the pack of Sun Gold seeds for $2.99. The package said 40 mg of seeds, plants 8 plants. I counted the seeds and there were actually 28 seeds in the package, so I guess they are allowing for a low germination rate. Most other tomato seeds of the same brand were cheaper and had more seeds, like 100 to 150 mg. I guess since these are hybrids one can't save seeds either. I am going to plant about a third of the pack and see what kind of germination rate I get, and save the rest for next year and the year after.
Ten of the 15 super sweet 100 seeds I just planted already sprouted. Only two of the five Chadwick Cherry seeds from 2002 sprouted, and one only had one leaf.

Californian

FWIW, just be warned that all you plant may germinate. Since they're so expensive, you wouldn't want to plant too many and not be able to use them. They are, according to everybody, extremely prolific.

When deciding why the package says "enough seed for (however many) plants," stop guessing about germination rates. Those seeds are commercially packed and should be fresh. Besides, you probably didn't read the ENTIRE planting directions which if you did read them will probably explain EXACTLY why the amount of seed in the pack is projected to only produce 8 plants. In other words, it's probably something to do with how many seeds they tell you to plant per inch or per starter cell and then subsequent thinning out directions.

Also, in other words, this entire thread has been based on speculation about how many seeds were in that pack and all this blather about how doggone expensive they were. Good lord! Go buy the seeds and plant some tomatoes before it's to late to grow the darn things!!!

Nichol's Garden Nursery (Oregon) has 20 seeds for $3.45, 250 for $13.95. They also offer Sunsugar, another small yellow, which I favor, for taste, massive cropping and vitality. Both are described as hybrids. Pinetree Garden Seeds (Maine) offers 15 Sungold seeds for $1.15, 15 Sunsugar for $1.35, also hybrids. I've been ordering from both companies for years, and have always had good germ. rates.

Pennyrile, I don't waste any seeds. I usually start tomato seeds in a shoebox sized container, and space them about an inch or so apart. If some don't come up, after I transplant those that did I recycle the seed starting mix for some other seeds. For larger seeds that I plant in individual plastic pots I only put one seed in a pot, so I don't have the waste of discarding a perfectly good seedling if several seedlings had sprouted from planting more than one seed in a pot. Again if a seed doesn't come up I recycle the planting mix and pot for some other seed. I bought a case of 4 inch square pots about 15 years ago and am still using them. Just wash them out and use them the next year. A few break every year, but I still have enough left to last me for the rest of my life. I think its really wasteful to plant more than one seed in a cell, if you are using trays that have cells. Maybe commercial growers do it because they have to have a seedling in every cell of a six pack or no one will buy it. But a home grower doesn't have that worry.

Cal,

A couple of comments.

If you counted 28 seeds in that pack of Sun Gold, and those seeds were packed for 2009 and stamped as such on the outside of the package, and you plant one third of the pack as you said you will, then you should expect 7 or 8 seedlings.

Another comment. If you recycle starting medium as you described and after what you may think is failure of some seeds to germinate, you will occasionally get a wrong plant from one or two of your starter cells, because some seeds which you think were dead will later sprout out of the recycled mix after you have retagged it in another cell with a different name tag. Believe me. I've seen that happen way more than once.

Pennyrile, yes I have had slow to sprout seeds later sprout when I planted something else in the potting soil, but it is usually easy to tell which seedling was the slow starter because it will come up in a different place then where I planted the new seed. I always dump the potting soil I am going to reuse in a big bin I use to store it and mix it up so usually the seed will be buried really deep when I reuse it. I have even had slow to sprout seeds finally sprout after I transplanted the new seedling out into the garden.
Your comment about packed for 2009 brings to mind a question. Was that seed actually produced in 2008 for sale in 2009 or is it old seed from previous years that was tested and repacked? The reason I ask is I asked Armstrong if they had any year old seed they were selling at a discount and they said no, they send all unsold seed back to the vendor. But what does the vendor do with it? Do they throw it away, or test it for germination rate, put it in a new package, and resell it, or maybe sell it to cut rate seed companies, or mix it with some fresh seed and resell it, or what?

Just a note, if you get seeds from Fedco, they are $2.40 for about 30. I also use Pinetree that was mentioned earlier and really like them. Fedco usually mentions the germination rate of its seeds. I believe that the 2009 seeds you are buying is from the 2008 growing year, somehow it would seem unethical to do otherwise. I'm not sure what they do with leftover seeds, it does seem a waste to toss them.