requesting critique of tomato list for Spring

16 years ago

First, I want to say thanks for all the inspiration from this forum. Ive been learning a great deal and I would like to request suggestions/critiques of my list of tomatoes for next year. Or, which 8 tomatoes for fresh eating (not canning) in a zone 5 "short-season" climate would you plant? Below the list is a longer explanation and a few other questions if you have time to read it. Thanks for any advice or opinions you care to share!

List so far:

Sungold,

Black cherry

Big Rainbow

Big Beef

Cherokee Purple (OR maybe Eva Purple Ball?)

Aunt GertieÂs Gold OR KellogÂs Breakfast

Brandywine (Sudduth strain) OR Brandy Boy

Early tomato such as Stupice (Stupice supposed to do well in cold-climates, but some threads here seem to indicate that maybe Kimberly tastes better. Another option could be Moskvich.)

More Information:

I have not had much luck with tomatoes so far. For my first garden two years ago, I grew plants indoors from seed, double dug the bed, heavily amended the awful clay soil, and set up a drip system. I grew sweet 100s, early girl, and one labeled yellow pear. The plants stayed small and did not do well. I thought some possible reasons might be that the soil was still not adequate, not quite enough sun facing south-west but maybe too close to the fence), or maybe my seedlings werenÂt strong. So, last year I tried three store-bought plants in whiskey barrels. But again, the plants were small, only one plant had any yield (one of the sweet 100s) and the skin was tough. The Early Girl didnÂt do much at all. (Those were against the south wall of the house, so maybe they got too much heat? I didnÂt know that was possible until reading some posts here!)

After researching, this year I plan to try starting my own seedlings earlier, with a light kit & grow mat. I am going to tear up part of the patio (faces south, lots of sun) and create a raised bed, and hopefully a cold-frame. I should have room for 8 plants. I may try to do more, but those will either have less sun in the old bed or be in the whisky half-barrels.

As for what I am aiming for, I want tomatoes for fresh eating. (I donÂt think I could manage canning yet!) In general, I would like to try:

- a couple of cherries

- a variety of colors of regular or beefsteak tomatoes for slicing.

- both hybrids and heirlooms. (IÂm enjoying learning about heirlooms!)

- Brandywine. IÂve never even tasted a Brandywine tomato and really would like to try it, but IÂve read mixed reports re how it does in the short-season, cool-climate here.)

Would Brandy Boy have a better chance here? Is the flavor really comparable?

So, besides suggestions or critiques of my proposed list (what are good choices, what would you change), I would also appreciate any clarification or explanation about what I did wrong before, or suggestions for my approach this year.

Note: In case this info helps: according to the local Univ Coop Extension, we have an average of 151 frost-free days per year (they also give a range of 134 Â 171 frost-free days.) The varieties they list as consistently performing here are: Big Beef, Celebrity, Early Girl, and Medina.

Thanks again!

hoppity

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Comments (12)

carolyn137
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks again!
hoppity

*****

Hoppity, roughly where do you live in CO? I lived there for quite a few years, in Denver, and successfully grew tomatoes, but there are many ecosystems in the state with a zone 5 growing zone.

So knowing where you are would make a difference to me as to your tomato growing.

Thanks

Carolyn
denninmi
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I'll comment on your selections, to the best of my knowledge.

Sungold -- a "must have" for me, addictive flavor.
Black cherry -- haven't tried these, but the sound good.
Big Rainbow -- a great, big, pretty slicer with very good flavor.
Big Beef -- one of the better beefstakes, pretty tasty.
Cherokee Purple -- didn't care for these, flavor was mediocre, texture sort of mushy and wierd. Lots of people love them.
Aunt Gerties Gold OR Kellogs Breakfast -- haven't tried these. Heard really good things about K. B..
Brandywine (Sudduth strain) OR Brandy Boy -- same as with Cherokee Purple, one year I bought ALL of the colors of the Brandywine strains, four or five kinds, from Totally Tomatos -- I was expecting something fantastic, based upon all the mythos revolving around these. I wasn't impressed with either performance or flavor, kinda prone to diseases and rots, and flavor was just average, IMO. Perhaps Brandy Boy is an improvement.
Early tomato such as Stupice -- I wasn't impressed with either Stupice or Oregon Spring, but then, I don't live in the type of climate which might necessitate these genetics. I much prefer 4th of July from Burpee, a really great tomato all around, in my opinion, and exceedingly early.

Hope this helps. It's hard to really know unless YOU try them -- I love 4th of July, for example, but a lot of growers on this board wouldn't take it if Burpee handed over a flat of plants with a $1,000 check attached. Climate and location might have a lot to do with it, too.
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Kathy, Just like Bluebell Ice Cream always says "We eat all we can and sell the rest...." No, just kidding, we don't actually sell any. LOL We absolutely eat all we can. The first few ripe tomatoes always go into bacon-lettuce-tomato sandwiches, which is ALL we eat in spring when the first tomatoes are available. Then, after we calm down from the excitement of having tomatoes, we began to eat them in salads, sliced, or even held in our hands and eaten the same way you'd eat a fresh peach. When the tomatoes start getting ripe, that's about all I eat--tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes. Here's a typical "tomato day" early in the season when the tomatoes are ripening: I'll chop them up and stir them into an omelet (along with garden-fresh green onions and mini bell peppers) for breakfast, eat handfuls of little ones while working in the garden, and then come inside for lunch. Lunch will be a BLT (turkey bacon most of the time, but really good, high-quality "real"bacon for the first few) or even fried green tomato BLTs with cilantro mayo. Then, if I work outside in the garden in the afternoon, you know I'm going to eat several handfuls of cherry types like Black Cherry, Sungold, Tess's Land Race Currant, etc. Dinner? At the very least, it will include a salad with fresh tomatoes. Maybe a sauce if there's that many ripe or tomato-onion pie, or salsa, etc. When tomatoes are in season, we can't get enough of them. I also like to make gazpacho, a tomato-based chicken tortilla soup, taco soup or tomato-basil soup. I also dehydrate larger ones, but cut them into quarters or even eighths so they dry more quickly. I used to give a whole lot away, but now I put up more for winter and give fewer away. You can even freeze them whole. Just pop them into a freezer bag and freeze them after you've washed them and let them dry. In the winter, you can take them out of the freezer and use them in sauces or soups. I love to make sauce from a combination of different kinds. The best tomato sauces I've ever made have been a combination of many kinds of heirloom tomatoes--not all paste ones. The blacks and the Brandywine types, in particular, makes the most amazing sauces and salsas. For drying, you can use a small food dehydrator (Wal-Mart usually has the round ones with several trays), a large and fancy dehydrator like an Excaliber (sp?) or even an oven. You can dry them in a regular oven by slicing the cherry, pear, and currant tomatoes in half and placing them skin down/cut side facing upward on baking sheets, setting the oven on its lowest setting "warm", and 'baking' them until they are sufficiently dry. If you have a convection oven, you can use the convection oven to dry them even more quickly. My stove (which certainly is smarter than I am and has feature I've never even tried to use) has a "Dehydrate" feature meant to be used with the convection oven. I just love it. I can dry six cookie sheets of tomatoes at one time, and the house smells heavenly when they are drying. I feel like I've died and gone to tomato heaven when the house smells like that! I dry thousands of small tomatoes every year, pack them into zip-lock bags and put them in the freezer. During the "off-season", I pull out a bag and eat them. You can eat them dry--they resemble raisins except with intense tomato flavor--or you can rehydrate them in a bowl of water for a couple of hours. Or, you can use them in any recipe that calls for sun-dried tomatoes. I like them any way at all. In an exceptionally rainy year, the excess rain "waters down" the flavor of tomatoes and almost ruins them because it makes them so bland. (People who over-water and over-fertilize often "ruin" their tomtoes in the same way.) In a year like that, you can "salvage" your crop, though, by either dehydrating them, which removes the excess moisture and intensifies the flavor, or by cooking them down into sauce, which does the same thing. I have recipes to prepare tomatoes many different ways and I'll share some of them with you as the tomatoes ripen. I even have recipes for tomato pie and tomato cake! (Tomatoes are VERY versatile.) Here's how I use them: Cherry, Grape, Currant types: eat by the handful all day long straight off the vines while working in the garden. If you don't spray with chemicals, you can do this. If you spray your plants with Daconil (chlorothalonil) or any other chemical sprays (whether natural or chemical in nature), you obviously have to wash the fruit first. We eat them in salads daily, dehydrate them for the winter months, etc. If you raise Principe' Borghese, you can pull it up by the roots and air-dry it by hanging it upside down in a dry basement, attic, cellar, etc. but you can't really "sun-dry" them here in OK the way they do in Italy because we have too much humidity. Well, people in SW OK might be able to sun-dry, but I can't even do it here in southcentral OK except in the hottest, driest droughts when humidity is insanely low. With the paste tomatoes, we use them for salsa. You have to have several paste tomato plants to get enough ripe ones at one time for tomato sauce. It takes a LOT of tomatoes to make a pot of pasta sauce. Remember that tomatoes are largely water and most of that water boils away so what seems like a "lot" of tomatoes cooks down over the hours into a relatively small amount of sauce. So, most of the paste tomatoes we raise are used for salsa or pico de gallo. Yellow pear and other similar yellow tomatoes make wonderful tomato marmalade or tomato preserves, but you can only make small batches of a few jars unless you have multiple plants. When you start getting lots of tomatoes, you can use them so many ways......one of my favorite is a tomato-onion pie that is sort of like a quiche. They make great, fairly quick pizza sauce and then you can make pizza using home-made crust or Boboli crusts. If I want to make a pizza or pasta sauce for dinner, I fill up a crockpot with tomatoes in the morning after breakfast, set it on low and let them cook down all day. Sometimes I remove the lid so more moisture cooks off more quickly. Then, when I come in at 3 or 4, I transfer them to a pot on the stove, boil them down as needed, and add the remaining ingredients, simmering the sauce for an hour or two for dinner at 5 or 6 p.m. Kathy, there are so many ways to prepare them! Sometimes, I think people get "bogged down" or "stuck" eating them fresh and forget how versatile they are. Maybe we can start a "favorite tomato recipe" thread in a few weeks and just keep adding to it and adding to it. One plant of each variety is fine, unless you want more. If I am planning on making and canning a LOT of sauce, I plant a couple of dozen paste tomatoes--they grow very well in buckets. You don't have room for that many, and I can't can as much as I used to because my new stove, purchased last summer, has a ceramic top and canning is not recomended. The old stove is in the garage, though, and I can plug it in and use it for canning because it was the oven that went out on it, not the burners. (For some reason, DH really wanted a "new" stove, although I would have been happy fixing the old one's oven.) Tomato plants are self-fertile, so they pollinate and fertilize themselves via air movement, so only one type of each is needed. Of course, as space allows you can add more. If you want to save seed AND you want to avoid the possibility of having insects like small bees and flies cause cross-pollination, you have to bag your blossoms even before they open. For blossom bagging, just go to the wedding part of the craft section at your local Wal-Mart (tee hee) and buy a set of the litle bags sold there for rice or whatever. I think one package has ten bags? After the fruit form, you can remove the bags and re-use them, but be sure to mark that branch so you know to save seeds from that cluster of tomatoes. I usually use surveyor's tape as a marker when I bag blossoms, but I don't do it all that often because I'm so busy during the garden season that I don't save a lot of seeds. I hope I answered your questions. If I didn't, ask more or ask again. And, if you want to see which tomatoes are "in favor" this year, watch when I type up the list of what actually went into the ground. I often plant two of each variety, but then maybe 4 of a few of the ones we really adore. Well, except for Tess's Land Race Currant. It gets so huge that one is all you need and, even at that, I leave hundreds and hundreds of them on the plant for the birds because I get tired of picking the thousands of tiny tomatoes that one plant makes over the course of the growing season. In the "old days" they used to plant hollyhocks to "hide" the outhouse from view. Well, if I had an outhouse, I'd just plant one Tess's Land Race Currant and it would hide it from view all by itself! Happy tomato growing and eating! Now that I have tomatoes on the brain, I'm going to go take a bag out of the freezer now to rehydrate for lunch. Dawn
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doof
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Purple Cherokee is a very different kind of tomato in appearance and taste. I would recommend it, but, be warned, it is a late tomato, not an early one. Very late, for me. And it wasn't that productive. I only got a few tomatoes, but they were delicious.

Eva Purple Ball is not purple (nor is Cherokee Purple). CP's color is hard to describe -- sort of a dark dusky red shading to a greenish-brown at the top. Eva Purple Ball, however, is a pinkish light-red color. Very small. I didn't care for it at all, and would not grow it again, but there are people on this forum that rave about it. It is an early tomato. About two to three ounces.
northernmich
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I too started here, reading, trading, growing.

Let me share what I have done/learned.

First off, as of yesterday I am the official keeper of over 200 varieties of OP tomatoes. That does not make me an expert, but it does show my involvement :)

Let me tell you that, for one...I have a similar climate as yours, 45th parallel near Canada. I grew in two ways last year; containers and raised beds. My first year to incorporate containers...3-7 gallons. In the containers went farm dirt, taken from a former dairy farm. Raised bed #1, which I will be referring to was screened topsoil as I have clay and many ROCKS. Some mulch has been added to bed #1, but it is NOT farm dirt.

The containers produced fruitful. I grew Farmer Reds...I have some to trade but can't find any information on them, they were more an orange red and about 9.5 oz and good to eat, I also grew Gardener's Delight (cherry), two others but the memory is fuzzy this morning.

I keep a small notebook and do recommend that you document as well, as much of what I will share is right straight from my notes :)

Bed #1 got these in order (I even drew cute little pictures :) -Brandywine Pink, Mr. Stripey (yellow with red streaks), Rutgers, Marmande, Gardeners Delight.

Across from them in order-Brandywine Pink, Roma, Gardener's Delight, Yellow Pear, Amish Paste.

These were started in the peat pellets and up on March 17th, I was ancy with spring fever. All other plants came up later. I used indoor lights in a homemade stand using a heat-controlled electric warmer that I get at resale shops for like $3. They were the healthiest plants and I put them in about 6 weeks later (calendar is not close to me). We still had frost going on...I hardened them off maybe 2-3 days then planted them. When frost warnings came. I used styrofoam cones and rocks to hold them down. All survived and thrived. This bed actually produced plants over 7 feet!

It was a chance though...the rest of the plants in other beds all matured and faired well. Additional plants grown in other beds last year were; Beefsteak, Large Red Cherry, Orange Banana, Gold Currant, Yellow Cherry, Brandywines, Italian, Delicious, Black Prince, Evergreen, Sunburst, Silvery Fir. In one garden went unidentified mix of colors from a packet...I don't recommend that-not knowing what they are until maturation. I also ended up with a beautiful unknown pink paste (I did save seeds).

Now how did I like them? For me the best sandwich slice went to Mr. Stripey...wow, I never had a tomato like that.

Gardener's Delight, Yellow Pear and Gold Currants were yummy candy.

Brandywines were good...I enjoyed their size and taste.

Rutgers, Marmande, Farmer Reds, were always there to be picked, a matured earlier and very similar.

The green one (Evergreen) was the best green salsa ingredient ever. Used that with the type of Mrs. Wages salsa mix that calls for cider vinegar to be added.

Sunburst was pretty but bland. The currant and other small cherry (not mentioned) wore me out picking. The best pastes I grew-Amish, edible off the vine.

I will update my inventory list of seeds Monday (three days from now). I do TRADE!

I have every variety I think you mentioned trying. I will enclose picture to this thread hopefully. This year is a radical growing year for me, not only will I try new ones at the homestead in beds, but I am now the catalyst for a community garden with access to 8 acres...garden one will not be that big I ensure you.

BUT...I can try all 200 tomato varieties...MAYBE :)

Earl in Northern Michigan
MrsJustice
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Nice Pictures
northernmich
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
A Googled list.
hoppithaven
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you for all the wonderful feedback so far!

Carolyn, I live in Colorado Springs - actually the northeast corner, closer to plains than mountains really. Elevation is supposedly 6700ft in this part - higher and more severe weather than downtown co/sp. Not as bad a monument, but seems a bit worse than downtown denver (I lived there for 6 years & miss it). I want to research more about microclimates, including how to figure them out in my own yard. The yard isn't large, but the area by the house where I want to put the tomatoes is warmer, snow melts faster, and is more protected from wind. I like to think it might even be equivalent to a zone higher, but I haven't tested anything yet. Does this information help? I look forward to any suggestions/ideas you want to share.

denninmi, thank you for your comments. It sounds like the sungold, black cherry, Big Rainbow and Big Beef might be good to start with. I have heard good thinkgs about Aunt Gertie's Gold and Kellog's Breakfast. I'm not sure what the differences are, except maybe Kellogs breakfast is sweeter and or earlier. Interesting point about Cherokee Purple. I wouldn't mind trying one "weird" tomato, but don't want to waste space on one that is mushy! It sounds like Brandywine can be a bit of a gamble, so if I try it, I plan to get the Sudduth strain from Johnny's Selected Seeds. I would like to learn more about how it compares to Brandy Boy though. I thought breifly about 4th of July, but for some reason thought it might be average compared to the others. I will have to reconsider though, since it is popular here and might do better. You are absolutely right that I need to try them, and I have a much longer list of tomatoes I want to try over time. (I wish I had room to try a few earlies side by side this summer to compare!)

doof, I didn't realize that Eva Purple Ball is earlier than Cherokee Purple. I thought Cherokee Purple might still do well here, so will keep it on the list. I still want to learn more about purples in general, since I didn't even know they existed until recently. I've seen pictures of CP, but realize I have not seen any pics of EPB, so I appreciate your descriptions and comparison in your experience!

Earl, it's great to know you started here as well, and your progress is inspiring! I love community gardens - they do so much good in so many ways! There is so much information here, I will have to go back to it a few times. I appreciate your timeline information about when you started the plants and when they matured. Charts around here indicate I should stard plants around March 17 as well, but it seems to differ a lot. Did Brandywine Pink really start producing before the others in the bed? And is the electric warmer you describe similar to the gro-mats that can go under the seedlings? Your pictures are wonderful, and I like the many different varieties together. I will look up Mr. Stripey next! I'll also check out the link you posted, - I haven't seen that website before.

Thanks again everyone! Feel free to add more comments and suggestions. I really appreciate it!
hoppity
northernmich
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Answer-heat unit is the electric warming plates, long rectangular , may have to remove handles...use only the ones with adjustable temps, the others will melt plastic...guess how I know? :) They are used to keep dishes warm...but $3 is cheaper that $20+ and they work excellent.

That said...here is MY top ten unique...NEW to try, based on feedback,advice and taste winners:

Black Krim
Cherokee-any, Chocolate, Spudakee, Green or Purple
Dr. Wyche's Yellow
Garden Peach
Kellogg's Breakfast
Missouri Pink Love Apple
Neves Azorean
Paul Robeson
Stupice...although many say Kimberly is like BUT better
Yellow Submarine--quote told me is--"this will make Yellow Pears a spitter"

Earl
elkwc
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hoppity,
I'm in extreme SW KS. I'll add my comments from my experience.
Sungold did well here. I'm going to plant Flammee' this year instead because the fruit is a little larger. Both were very good for me.
I've had way better luck with Brandyboy here than Brandywine. Produces way more and tastes as good.
Cherokee Purple didn't do very well for me and the taste varied. From bad to good.
Kellog's Breakfast did very well and great tasting. It will be back this year.
Big Beef does well for many. I prefer the hybrid Goliath. It does very well and very consistent every year.
Indian Stripe, Coustralee, Adelia, Pineapple, Caspian Pink and Wes all have been very good for me.
Great gardening with whatever varieties you decide on.
dangould
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I am zone 5 and tomatoes grow like weeds for me. I advise you first learn to grow tomatoes before getting too deep into difficult ones like brandywine. Brandywine is a loser in my book. Cherokee Purple is very early for me and a big winner. Stupice is super flavor. Sungold is a huge plant with tiny toms. not much yield for the area used. I would try some Jet Star first off. Make sure you get good seeds. not plants. plant sellers tend to use f2 seeds. you must get the f1 seeds. big difference. Jet star will give huge yields in small space and plant.

You can plant jet star twice. Once early and the 2nd one plant seeds about May 1. and get toms at the end of the season. keep notes to determine the best dates for you.

The cherokee purple plants are small also. very good yield. but the hybrid jet star is going to give more tomatoes than CP.

Here is a good list for your first year.

Jet Star should do best
Celebrity is ok good yield but not as good eating.
Cherokee Purple a great tomato.

All 3 are high yield smaller plants. Just what you need.

Grow these 3 first then branch out. You should get enough to can with these three. I like to eat 5 to 10 tomatoes per day. so you need some good yield of good tomatoes.

If you can not grow these 3 then you have no business fooling around with other tomatoes. If you are too cold for these then you will have to look at Oregon tomato releases. The PNW is cold and that is a different issue on tomatoes. I assume you warm up in the middle of the summer.
hemnancy
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Cherry- Siberian Pink prolific and tasty
Verna's Orange Oxheart- yellow heart, very early and productive

I would recommend a tunnel TunLCover that will protect your seedlings when you set them out and keep them warmer so they grow faster.
fusion_power
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hop,

First and foremost, your climate will preclude growing many of the longer season varieties - unless you do something to modify the climate. The suggestion above of using a grow tunnel is an excellent one for you. You can find these listed as hoop houses which can be constructed from a wide range of materials.

Re the varieties on your list, Black Cherry, Cherokee Purple, Big Beef, Kimberly, and Kellogg's Breakfast will all perform reasonably well. I would suggest looking around for Gregori's Altai because it is a very good variety that can handle shorter than normal seasons.

Fusion

requesting critique of tomato list for Spring

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