These are the ValueSeeds I think I am going to WS any objections or advice? I have the containers all ready...I work in the Deli at Costo so all those food containers ( rotisserie chicken any one) that we can't use for food due to a crack or got dropped well they have a home with me for plants! The sauteing iron has gotten a work out the past 3 days making holes! Hyssop Morning Glory Dwarf Ensign Mixed Dayflower Amaranthus Joseph\'s Coat Delphinium Pacific Hybrid Mixed Pansy Rhine Gold Sweet Pea Astronaut Mixed Colors Lupin Blue Bonnet Seven Dwarfs Mixed Columbine Nora Barlow Mixed English Daisy Rose Carpet Salad Leaves Niche Oriental Mixed Bellflower Amethyst Zinia Red Spider Fuchsia Fuseedia Mixed F2 Zinnia elegans T&M Giant Cactus Flowers Mixed Digitalis purpurea Candy Mountain Aquilegia x cultorum Danish Dwarf Parsley : Big Mountain

Wow! Thank you so much for your replies and all the great information. I'm trying to go through it all and compare to what I was thinking about doing. We don't have a tractor or high tunnels but those are things I am trying to get as soon as possible. It seems that everyone has a bit different definition of what a bed is. I live on 5 acres and right now we have one plot that is 100x75' (the length of our mainline is 100') and a second one that is 70x60'. We will be expanding next year to have a third 50x100' plot and extending the current ones to 100x100' and 70x100. I really like the idea of permanent beds because right now we till the entire plot and then I have to create and map out the beds every season which takes a lot of time and effort. I would really like to just till the bed and have a more permanent path in between. I think I may go with either 30" or 36" for bed size. I am just trying to maximize space efficiency in the beds. I agree the diamond pattern is the best way to fit the most plants in. Jay and brookw, what size bed do you use? Your row spacing sounds similar to what I was thinking. For those of you who have a permanent or standard bed, what do you do about things like trellised tomatoes, peas and crops like potatoes that are planted in a single row? That's why I was thinking of having several different bed sizes. As for starting crops in the spring I was planning to start brassicas, bulb onions, green onions, peas, carrots and beets in mid-April. Is that too soon? Should I use row covers? My last frost date is 5/15 and the first market is June 15th. This past year I didn't have anything to sell at the first few markets except plant starts because I planted everything too late and then critters ate my peas. I would like to have produce at the first market next year. (I don't grow greens except a small amount of spinach and kale because there is a greens specialist at the market and the bunnies always eat them all before they get to harvestable size.) Thank you all for the succession planting information. Carrots sold like crazy this year so I want to plant a ton more of them. I never thought to succession plant the cucurbits. Thank you for the chart, little_minnie! I will have to compare it to the notes I have for my plants. I'll be back with more questions and thoughts. Thank you again for giving me so much to think about.

Julie...I am not sure I understand the idea of a Christmas 'card' in the front yard..could you explain a little more what you are trying to do? pm2

Ok.. Here I go. Dad left when I was 2, sister 12 brother 7. Parents were married 13 yrs. Dad cheated and got GF pg so I have a half brother that is almost 2 yrs younger than me. Dad married his GF, they were married until I was 10. Dad never got me in the beginning bc I was the baby and he thought too young for weekend visits. Mom tried to get him to take me. Never would. Started going when I was 5. Dad worked all weekend leaving us with SM. SM and older sister got along great bc SM let sister drink and smoke and go out all night while me and brother were literally locked in a bedroom for hours with only rice and biscuits for dinner. No breakfast or lunch. Dad was clueless. Mom remarried when I was 4 to my stepdad. They are still married, I am 30 now. Mom never did or said anything until brother told about the abuse we indured (neglect) for 4 yrs. She stopped letting us go. When dad remarried at 40 a 29 yr old mom became furious at the affection I showed towards new sm. She was lots of fun. Taught me to drive at 13! Responsible parent? Absolutely not. I didn't realize the loyalty my mom demanded until I was 13. I went to live with dad and sm for 2 yrs in jr high. It was awful for me. I was even more neglected since sm and bd were both cops. No one ever home. We were the party house bc I was left to run wild. Got into some trouble and my mom made me move home. All through high school I would want to go see my dad and mom would get angry and tell me things like 'your dad never helps he doesn't pay child support he cheated he left US' so I would drop it. Then I started having my own issues with dad bc SM #2 felt betrayed by me since I moved back home with mom she wouldn't speak to me. I would visit and she would lock herself in her room all weekend. So I stopped going. Then at my high school graduation dad came SM did not, my Parents got into a fight. I was crying over my bff moving away and we were hugging, dad said awwwwww isn't that so sweet in a 'mocking' tone. Mom turned around and said 'she isn't use to losing people or people leaving her, that's your job!' omg!! It was awful they started screaming and going at it. I didn't speak to my dad for 5 yrs but I never heald it against my mom. SM and dad divorced and dad met sm#3. Dd was 1. I started seeing my dad in secret bc I didn't want my mom to know. Dad owed mom $25k in child support but she had to buy his part of the house when I graduated college. So when they went to do all of that basically they wipped that clean and mom had to still pay $28k to dad... Mom was furious. She had a bad attorney and dad knew the judge since he worked for the county ... Mom has lots of baggage, lots of hate, animosity. I did not realize what my mom was doing to me by forcing me to pick her or my dad until I told her I was inviting dad to dd's bday party, a party she agreed to help pay for. She simply said 'i won't be there' which then I had to not invite dad bc I couldn't afford the party on my own and needed her help. She basically knew I needed her $ and that I would pick her so that I could have this party we had already planned to split. Basically my dad was not a good dad. Not there for me. But he is still my dad. I look just like him and so she always says don't make that face you look like your father!! That always hurt me which is part of some issues I have with my self esteem and self worth. It will hurt your dd's. They will look for a way out as young adults by trying to find a man to support them so they can move out fast. That is what I did. I could not stand the constant badgering of my dad and her stories of how he left us or how he did this or that. Granted they did not start until high school. The way I have fixed it now is I just tell my mom, he is my dad and you married him, you had kids with him, you get over it. So she slowly has gotten over it in the last two yrs but she still says things about the money (which I do agree he screwed her, he screwed us) but I don't want to relive it over and over and over again. I just want to live my life now. It took only 10 yrs from the beginning of the mess for me to figure it out and I had to set very clear boundaries with my mom. Now things are fine and honestly, now I see that my dad was a deadbeat, still is and my mom was right however I still don't want to hear it. Your situation is a bit different. But do know that she will figure it out when she is an adult. Just keep doing what you are doing. Do not cut yourself off from her because that hurts worse. She will realize wow sm wasn't like what my mom said and she will probably need therapy like I have needed but she will get it and her adulthood may start out rough but in the end, her childhood will not define her. Mine does not. I do not say 'well I had a rough childhood and no one wanted me so I will go be promiscuous or a deadbeat' I have changed my yellow brick road to better fit what I want. Now my sister... She uses her childhood as an excuse for her constant mistakes... Hopefully that won't be your sd.