Well that's pretty interesting that at least one district collects the numbers of entries by class. New York district does not (or if they do nobody has told me). Not being in the "Handbook for Selecting Roses" just means it's not in the "Handbook for Selecting Roses". Most of my roses aren't. For crying out loud, even Quadra isn't listed in the "Handbook". It's real easy to fall off the straight and narrow. It is a conundrum. We say we want to see more shrubs and OGRs entered in rose shows, but the barriers are considerable. The number of roses I've shown over the years that have changed official exhibition name or show classification is dizzying. It's a lot to expect a person to keep track of. The "Official List of Approved Exhibition Names" is published annually, and costs $10. If we really expect a person to stay current, this information should be available for download. Don't know. I think I'd like to see fewer exhibition classes, and more courts. It's hard to see that the much trumpeted Floribunda court has much relevance here. A shrub court or OGR court? Now your talking! If I had to guess, I would say Rosa setigera will not bloom in time for the Hartford show next week. Many of my favorite roses never make it to a rose show. There's nothing to be done about that. They are what they are.

When I first contacted Kim about roses, he gave me a reading list of books written by several very successful breeders. My favorite author is Jack Harkness, but LeGrice is right up there. Harkness's book Roses is a very complete and insightful study of species roses and their hybrids. You can learn a lot about what traits various species roses have brought into the rose gene pool. LeGrice ... is incredible. If you want to learn about bloom color ... read LeGrice. The other books were equally as important as they gave me a sense of the timeline of the development of modern roses, and studying them gave me even more information about the traits found in the rose family. Cultural information may be "dated" and biased because both of these breeders were from England, but the knowledge they share about the botany of the plants is detailed and very much worth learning. I read these books periodically because every time I read them, I am bringing more personal knowledge and experience with me and see the information with "new eyes". I also made my own lineage trees by hand because HMF did not have the lineage report feature online. Even though I can go through a lineage report on HMF and understand it, I think the exercise of doing my own lineage reports and looking up the species roses and the other roses included in the lineage gave me a deeper understanding of the make up of the rose. A seedling may look like it is a good rose, but you really won't know if it is a worthy cross until you have carried it forward for several years. A juvenile plant often performs differently in many ways than a more mature plant. It takes time to learn how to see roses through a "breeder's eyes". You are on your way, but you have only had the opportunity to touch the surface of what it takes to breed good roses. Also, it takes time to reach the point where you can learn from the best teacher of all things roses .... the rose. I love your enthusiasm. You'll need it to help you to meet your goals. Smiles, Lyn PS... keep in mind a lot more has been learned and written about the science of breeding good roses since these books were written.

Thank you all. I'm considering all of your suggestions. Steve, I'm in Dover, Delaware. As for water, it has been dry here and I watered this area shown in the photo for about 2 hours yesterday with an occilating sprinkler. And I'm pretty alert to the water requirements. So I think I'm OK with the water situatiion. Fertilizer may be the problem. Tell me what you think about alfalfa pellets. I buy these in the 50 lb sacks at the animal feed store and use them on my roses and daylilies. I'm talking about horse food here. Do you think these would be good on the shade garden, too? Perhaps a combination of Plant Tone and alfalfa pellets. Paul in Minnesota, thank you for posting your pics. The second photo of your golden tiara with the scapes just emerging is a beautiful plant. I would be delighted with such a plant in midseason. However, my Golden Tiara plants look sickly by midseason, and are no longer attractive, even though the June Hosta right nearby look fabulous. (June and Sagae are my absolute favorites - they put a smile on my face every time.) So, perhaps is it a heat problem with the Golden Tiaras? Well, no matter, i've already decided. Alfalfa pellets and Plant Tone are going on the shade garden. thank you all again. I will post more pics of this spot in my yard a little later in the season. Christine

Jeri, Please don’t consider your input nit picking I welcome it. Only by pointing out corrections to these rose lists will it better serve there primary purpose. While I encourage corrections, e-mail is preferred as listed in header. Will do my best to answer some of your questions. “Irene Watts” is a Hybrid China 1896; it was changed and has to be exhibited as “Pink Gruss an Aachen” a Floribunda as the >>>>> indicates, similar to many other rose changes on the list. It’s also shown in the Floribunda class, as “Pink Gruss an Aachen” helping avoid any confusion. “Glendora” in the Hybrid Perpetual class should have had >>>>> indicating to See: “Joasine Hanet”. “Joasine Hanet” a Portland without the date 1882 but >>>>> indicated an addition to the name was missing. On subject of “Joasine Hanet”, In today’s May 2005 list of supplements to the 2005 “AEN”, I have “Joasine Hanet” listed as missing a DQ rose indication in the latest AEN, the entry should be DELETED. Working off two lists, ended up with “Joasine Hanet” and “Johasine Hanet” data, the latter of which is listed as a DQ in the 2005 an AEN. Another rose to DELETE is Pam’s Pink a “Found” rose that was to be removed from the 2004 list. I could not find “The Portland from Glendora” in the 2005 AEN, but there was a “Portland from Glendora” See; “Joasine Hanet”. Without knowing your involvement in roses, if you just like to grow roses or are also involved in exhibiting them. If you just grow roses, the information on the garden web forum will keep you posted on corrections and some of the new roses introduced. If you exhibit roses, there are rules and regulations everyone must follow. One rule has to do with the using the correct names of a rose. This is where the 2005 Official List of Approved Exhibition Names “AEN’s” comes in. It is one of the official ARS publications, which judges and exhibitors use to verify a roses name. Released in March, is supplemented each month with information from ARS publications until the next years AEN is published. Not every one that exhibits roses belongs to “ARS” and receives ARS latest publications. This is one reason for listing the new names of roses on the GW Forum and keeping these posts up front where others can benefit from them. Once posted to, moves the post down the line. Ron Schwerdt 5-31-05