Hi Lucy,

Welcome to the RMG Forum. I live in Thornton, just east of Westminster/Broomfield and I like it up here a lot. But it is DEFINITELY not lush! If you fly out for a visit, get a window seat and watch how drastic the change is shortly after you cross the Mississippi River. If you truly love the lush greenness around you, you may not like our dry, high plains desert climate. I LOVE it out here! I've lived in Denver since 1964 and wouldn't even consider moving back to a humid area. Grew up in Illinois, and when I get back there now the air feels like it's too think to inhale! And I hate being sticky all the time. Don't like soggy cookies and crackers either! ;-)

We have been in a drought condition for several years now. Last winter we got a LOT of snow in the mountains which filled up almost all of the reservoirs, but then we had a very dry spring and summer, so they're back down and there are watering restrictions in much of the Denver metro area. Mostly the restrictions apply to lawns though. You can usually water veggies, flowers, trees, bushes, etc. whenever you need to, though, depending on your town, you may not be able to water some things with an overhead sprinkler except on your watering days. It just depends on each municipality. You really do get used to it, though it would be a bigger adjustment for you, where I'm guessing you almost never need to water your lawn now. In Thornton (this is the first year we've had restrictions--depends on what reservoir each city gets its water from) I can water the lawn 3 times a week--which is more than enough since a properly watered, established lawn only needs a good deep watering about once a week. Also, most areas allow more frequent watering of newly sodded or seeded areas (seeding grass is difficult out here because of the low humidity and most people put in sod.)

Learning to garden out here would definitely be an adjustment, but it's very doable. If you don't want to have to water a lot, there are lots of xeric plants--trees, bushes, perennials--you can put in that will require very little watering once they're established. I have lots of different perennials, not just xeric, and they almost all look great. There's a couple I have in too much sun--the sun is much hotter out here--that I need to move to a little more shade, but moving stuff is part of perennial gardening. And I have a small (only because that's all the space I have) veggie garden, and it's doing really well too----and I expect it to do even better each year as I keep improving the soil more. If you move into a new house, or one where there hasn't been much gardening, you will need to add a lot of organic matter to your soil when you're planting things.

The one thing I do miss from growing up in Illinois is the LONG thunderstorms we'd get back there. I love to lay in bed at night and listen to the thunder. We do get thunderstorms out here, but they usually move over very quickly, so I have to enjoy them very quickly! And they almost never happen after dark. (And we do get hail with the thunderstorms pretty often. That's one of the cons!)

But there are SO many positives that lack of thunderstorms is a trade off that's well worth it. The low humidity is a primary one. We're supposed to get some, possibly heavy, rain in the next couple hours and my humidity in the house right now, with all the windows open, it 50%! It most often runs around 20 to 30-some percent. And because of the low humidity, we almost always cool down into the 50's or 60's overnight--even on the hottest summer days. My house is air conditioned, but I've only used it a couple time his summer--and it's been a hot one. I leave all my windows open overnight, then close them in the morning when the house is all cooled down and reopen them in the evening. If it gets too hot in the afternoon I turn on the AC for a couple hours until I can open the windows again. Sure saves on electricity, and I don't like being in a closed up house all the time anyway. And lots of people think we're buried under snow all winter! We don't want too many people to find out that that's just not true! Because of the high altitude, the sun is much hotter, so when we get snow--even if it's lots--it almost always melts off within about 48 hours--on the roads at least--and on the grass within a couple more days. We almost never have "dirty" snow because it just isn't around long enough to get dirty! And then there are the mountains! Need I say more! Next week I'm going out to spend a couple nites in a secluded cabin on a stream I found near Bailey just southwest of Denver--can hardly wait. If you're ever feeling too stressed, you can head out to the hills and walk or sit in a quiet place for a while---and it all goes away!

Anyway, you can tell that I'm prejudiced in favor of Denver, but if it turns out to be your kind of place, I think you'd love it too. I lived in Manhattan for a year back in '63/'64, and while I wish I were rich and could afford to fly in for plays and stuff, I would never want to go back there to live. If you move out here, I think you'll see an amazing difference in the people too. Very laid back and friendly for the most part. VERY different from the east coast. Anyway, you get the idea!

Let us know what you decide,
Skybird

Hi Skybird...wow. Well, that pretty much answered a lot of my questions! Thanks so much for all the insight and information!

We have been contemplating leaving here for years for so many reasons... Colorado has been at the top of our list, along with Vermont. (what can I say, leaving the Northeast will be hard!) We have friends who moved to Highlands Ranch who dare us to come visit - they say if we come, we'll never go back. They're probably right!

Low humidity is definitely a great thing - but does it get really dry in winter? Are there also less bugs to deal with (both annoying and garden wise) because of the elevation/lack of humidity?

Thanks again for all your help, really appreciate it!

I'm a transplant from Minnesota. Things are lusher there too, although not for as long of a season! When I go back to Minny in the summer now I always admire the greenery, but sometimes I get to feeling a little too closed in at the same time. Many wide open vistas out here. And after 20 years in Colorado, it seems a little crazy to see all those farmers growing corn without irrigation, just assuming it's going to rain!

Anyway, you'll have to learn to appreciate a little different look if you want to be happy gardening out here. There are also thriftier ways of watering and such that you'll learn. I have and now I'm as fond of my 'desert garden' as I am of my perennial garden - and it's less work, too. So if you're adaptive, I'm sure you'll be happy gardening out here - the semi-arid climate feels more comfortable when you're out digging, both in hot weather and cold.

Oh and definitely buy the Sunset "Western Garden Book" and study up.

Oh - and the lack of dirty snow is DEFINITELY a plus! We love snow (hence the Vermont possibility) but dirty snow is so...just so yucky! Giving up the thunderstorms would be an adjustment, we love them also...but I guess there is a price to pay for everything!

If you have forced air heat, the humidity in your house in winter will probably run from the low 20's to the low 30's. I'm thinking of installing a humidifier on my furnace before this winter. It WILL make sleeping more comfortable. Outside the humidity usually runs somewhere between 20 and 40 percent in summer and winter unless we have weather around. The humidity can go down into the single digits when it's been dry for several days in a row--or several weeks in a row! Some people consider the low humidity a disadvantage, but not most of us. But you WILL find yourself using a lot more hand, face, and body lotions than you probably do now. And I recommend keeping a chapstick in your pocket! For me, the need for extra lotion is no problem at all compared to feeling hot and sticky all the time. I also lived in Lancaster County PA for about 6 months back in '66, and it was so hot and sticky that I'd keep the tub filled with cold water and just sit in it for a while every now and then to cool off. But by the time I got out and "dried off," I'd be all sweaty again. Couldn't wait to get back to Colorado! And have been here ever since! And in winter the cold goes right "through you" in humid places--like Chicago! It's not at all like that out here. Most of the time in winter, as long as the sun is out, you don't even need much of a coat---many days, none at all (just get home before it gets dark out!) Did you know that we get more days of sunshine than Florida--the Sunshine State! So, again, it will definitely take some adjustment if you've never lived somewhere dry. But most people love it--it sure sounds like your friends do.

Below is a link to the NOAA weather site for Thornton where I live. Watch it for a while to check out the temps and humidity. You'll see that for the next couple days it shows what looks like quite a bit of rain, but rain is different out here than it is back east. It doesn't rain all over! We get showers--sometimes heavy--that move in and out quickly--usually! They've already had a band of showers move over the downtown area and south of there today while it's been sunny most of the day here in Thornton. That line of showers is now out on the plains southeast of Denver. More showers are expected to move in later--I hope they do! But if they do, they'll probably come and go in a half hour or so. And I could get heavy rain where I am, but people a mile or two away wouldn't get any. It's hard to explain for somebody who's used to weather in the east. Also, FYI, the south end of town--from downtown south to Parker and Castle Rock--usually gets considerably more precipitation than the north end of the City. Just has to do with the way the weather moves off of the mountains.

And bugs! What bugs? Back in Chicago the house was always full of flies, and when it was going to rain, the screen door would be absolutely covered with them. Out here I don't even bother to close the screen on the slider most of the time when I go outside, and while I do get a fly or two in the house, it's not enough to worry about. And when I drive to work, I drive on a couple miles of roads that are still pretty much in "the country," and there are so few bugs out there that it makes me mad when one occasionally goes schplat on my windshield. In the garden, the biggest problem I've had is the earwigs that were virtually defoliating some of my things last year and earlier this year, but I have that under control now. Last year I also had a little bit of trouble with aphids and mites, but so far this year no problem with that, so I suspect the incidents of bugs in the garden are probably less than back east or the midwest where bugs, in general, are much more prevelant. Of course we do occasionally have a mountain lion or a bear show up in the metro area!

Why don't you take your friends up on their offer to come visit! Stay for a week and get a look at the Denver area and take a drive or two out into the hills--maybe a drive up to Rocky Mountain Natl. Park. I'll bet, along with your friends, that you'll love it and become Denverites in short order! And you can always take your vacations back in Vermont!

Gotta go for now,
Come give us a try,
Skybird

Here is a link that might be useful: NOAA - Thornton CO weather

I just saw your last post, and if it's snow you want, all you have to do is drive out into the mountains. Even in the middle of summer you can usually find some out there if you're really missing it. But it WILL be dirty in summer! And if you ski, you'll absolutely LOVE the dry snow conditions, compared to the wet eastern snow.

Skybird

Re chapstick in pocket. This is a good idea, and even a better idea to remember to remove the chapstick from the pocket before doing the wash. It isn't the wash part, its the dryer part, and the result is "That Colorado Look", or multiple, hard to remove stains all over every piece of clothing you own.

(said from having 3 teenagers who are learning this for themselves these days)

I've been in the Denver area for 20 years and LOVE it here! That being said, there are some things a gardener new to the area needs to know:

1) The dirt here is not real dirt - not like the dirt we had in the Northwest at least. Everyone I know lives on clay or dry rocky stuff. After battling for 2 years to add life to this stuff, I finally dug it all up and brought in good soil for my garden.
2) The weather is challenging. Early frosts and late snowstorms can wreak havoc on your flowers and trees. Spring thunderstorms can bring serious hail. Warm sunny days in winter can scald your trees. Several years ago I watched the temperature drop 70 degrees in a single day. Pay close attention to the weather forecasts, and don't get suckered in by the garden & home retail centers trying to get you to put in annuals before Mother's Day. I lost $100's of dollars of annuals before I finally learned.
3) As far as the drought is concerned, we've limited our Kentucky bluegrass lawn as much as possible - keeping only a play area for the kids and the HOA-required front lawn. With a good sprinkler system, you can play by the water restriction rules, efficiently water the yard, and keep water costs down. My water bills run from $60 month in winter to $100 for July. You can hand-water bushes, flowers and gardens every day, and you will need to water daily or every 2 days unless you plant native species.

I'm curious why you think there aren't thunderstorms out here? We get some real boomers and 4th of July our street was completely flooded from the torrential downpour.

What really makes me love it here are the winters. We can have 4 foot of snow fall one day, and it will be gone in two. A couple of years ago I had 10 foot drifts in my backyard from one spring blizzard and the next day it was sunny and almost 60 degrees. Several times we've played basketball or football in the backyard on Thanksgiving Day. We never bothered to get out the snow shovel this last winter at all, but we still got in several days of sledding with the kids. And the mountains are right there if you feel the need to be cold. No dirty snow, no ice, no week after week of gray gloomy skies and hardly any mud!

This is all great information, thanks so much everyone! We were planning on visiting our friends in October, but that now has been pushed back til January or February...

I guess all we ever hear about out here is when the drought gets really bad or when there are wild fires out there - and those are two scary things for people who never really have to deal with either! I guess with the sun as strong as it is, you can have some real success with a nice greenhouse too? And I guess solar power is a real possibility out there as well?

I have done some investigating into the xeric gardens, and it all looks a lot less intimidating than I originally thought. Thank you all so much for all this great information!

Unless you get a house on the FAR west side that's in or near the foothills, you really shouldn't need to worry about the fires--almost all of them are in the mountains or foothills. And this year we've had very, very few anyway. And, as you can tell from all the replies, the drought is something you can learn to live with. And---it will have to end one of these years and the weather will get back to normal--whatever that is!

A greenhouse out here is wonderful! I used to have one but had to sell that house! And solar assisted heat is definitely a possibility. Just be sure you get a good system. I have a solar assisted system for my hot water in my house now, and it definitely saves money.

Since you're coming out in the middle of winter, if you want to see SNOW, have your friends drive you over Loveland Pass. You'll see snow!

Skybird