Seeking ideas for difficult formal garden

19 years ago

I seeking comments and suggestions for renovating the garden pictured below.

The plantation where this garden is located has been put up for sale and the owner does not want to invest tons of $$$ on renovating this garden, yet he wants it to look reasonably decent and low-maintenance.

This garden was designed by Umberto Innocenti in the 1930s. Five large live oak trees shade the garden and also make the soil relatively dry. These trees also rain down a ton of leaves which bury the walks and beds every spring.

Plan One: remove the remaining ratty azaleas (Coral Bells and Snow varieties) and dress the beds with pine straw. Arrange large planters containing Kimberly Queen ferns at focal points around the garden. Keep the camellias that are along one side of the garden. Dress the beds with pine straw.

Alternative Plan: Remove ratty azaleas. Leave the camellias.

Design the beds using tall ferns, aspidistra and mondo grass. Add several large planters for seasonal color.

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Comments (8)

inkognito
19 years ago
I hate that when a beautiful garden is bought by a cheap skate. This is a magical garden dixie restore it if you can.
ginger_nh
19 years ago
Hello, Dixie!
I remembered your post from Feb. '04, linked below:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/restoration/msg021322405665.htm

How have things changed/progressed since that time? Have you decided to take a more practical approach rather than a restoration based solely on the original designer's vision?

I like your Plan 2, personally; Plan 1 seems to leave the garden with a too wide/large expanse of pine straw mulch.

Ginger
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The bed seems nice and cleanly shaped, so you should feel like that is a success! While having all the different plants might make you happy, it's going to be difficult to make a cohesive, strong, artistic statement out of them. There is too much variety and quantity of plants. The topiary would work as the "center of attention," but it needs some plain space -- uniform, low planting -- around it at the "floor" level, too, in order for all its attention not to be lost in a jumble. (It seems like you grasp that concept because you're placing it in front of a BLANK wall.) Something similar could occur beneath it. Also, I'd place the topiary farther away from the wall -- at least 12" additional -- so there is some room for growth. If you placed the Hydrangea in front of the wall where you now have azaleas, theres only room for one or two of them. One phormium might make a good accent placed near the intersection of where the drive meets the house. Take a look at photos of all these plants on Google images and you'll see that mature ones could not fit in the space you're offering. Unless you're planning to also keep the plum trimmed in a tight topiary shape, one of those alone would dominate and shade the whole area, allowing little opportunity for most other things to grow at all. With the picture, I'm trying to illustrate the effect of simplification.
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I would challenge your description of the area as being "devoid of landscaping." What you have there is landscaping that consists of a large tree. Seen as a positive, the tree already gives the area, in my opinion, much of what you seek: elegance and tranquility. I'd bet it's a lovely shaded glade in summer, although the foliage is too high to address the excellent point made above regarding visibility from the neighbours. Address that somehow, make the entry arbours that you suggest, and add a chair and a small table for your book and beverage, and you could already put that in a landscaping magazine. Unfortunately the tree can also be seen as a negative. The tree requires most of the nutrients and moisture that the ground there has to offer. Depending on what kind of tree it is and whether it has shallow or deep roots, you may or may not be able to plant much else successfully. The amount of weed growth is indicative of how likely it is that you can grow other plants - note the bare ground on your hellstrip, out by the street, that announces that THAT tree does not share well. There is a bit of growth between the houses, so you may be luckier there. But also, the debris from the tree gives plants below a bit of a challenge, and they may suffer; at the least they won't tend to look nice - again, depending on what kind of tree it is. For example, hostas grown near a tree that sheds constantly look like heck their entire growing season. I guess I belong to a minority that believes children can be taught not to climb into a fountain, if a fountain is what you want, but tree debris cannot, and will indeed have to be considered in your design - ask me how I know! What might be more fun and easier to maintain is a birdbath. What will work? I think you need to think of dry shade conditions when you pick your plants, and of hardscaping that can be easily cleaned of tree debris, or that still shows through piles of it. I don't really get a sense yet of what you want this area to do, which is what would dictate how to start - with a pathway, a seating destination, or just something that looks nice. If the latter, with a formal style, then a vignette of evergreens, coniferous and broadleaf, enhanced with hellebores and ferns for instance, would be excellent - if plants will grow and thrive under that tree. That's the million dollar question. One plant that I'm pretty sure could be amazing there, at certain times, would be cyclamen. You can also go container in a situation like this - that's what I do in the areas under my willow, but a willow tree is in a class of its own for interference. KarinL
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ginger_nh
19 years ago
Where did you go, Dixie?
phdnc
19 years ago
Leave the camellias. Remove the ratty azaleas. Like the aspidistra idea. Mix up the ferns & maybe add Cyrtonium falcatum (holly fern) with Fatsia japonica also. An Osmanthus fragrans near the walk some where? The live oaks will shed the majority of their leaves in the spring ( usually after you have cleaned everything up for the spring!!lol) but seriously, something to consider if doing ground cover. just some quick thoughts
P
idixierose
Original Author
19 years ago
Thanks, all for your ideas. Today Nandina visited and checked out the garden. Her suggestions lean toward Plan 2, using holly fern, sasanqua camellias and bush ivy, and pots to add interest and emphasis.

This particular little garden has been on hold all summer -- we were short handed for 6 months and I was injured in June and unable to do much for a couple of months. At this point, I 'd just like the owners to decide what they want to do.

Gardener Rants: I'm beginning to suspect that it will take some high-priced consultant to come in and suggest just what I have already suggested. Actually, they've had several consultants look at the garden about 6 years ago and nothing came of that either. None of them could say why the old azaleas were dying out. None of them could say why the little dwarf hollies failed to thrive.

I also get the feeling that they want the impossible (lush happy dwarf azaleas) and that they know it's a risky proposition, but they seem to think that's how it's supposed to look. That's how it was when they first saw the garden and that's what sticks in their minds. Snow and Coral Bells. Even though the bloom period lasts for 2 weeks only.

We've even discussed removing select limbs from the canopy of live oak branches that shade the area -- but that idea was rejected too.

I wish I were an artist so I could create a watercolor picture of my Plan 2 vision. A picture is worth 1000 words.

Perhaps I'll feel less cranky about this project on Monday. I just want the garden to be beautiful and realistic, where the plants thrive and flourish. Humbug.

Meanwhile, the rest of the gardens are mowed and manicured and a picture of loveliness.

I'm not the best gardener in the world....but I'm not the worst.
nandina
19 years ago
I wish you all could have joined me yesterday as I stopped to see the plantation where Dixie Rose is head gardener. It is not too far from here and I was interested in seeing the Umberto Innocenti landscape. Last year I spent hours studying his design for Millikin in Spartanburg, NC. which is truly fantastic and not open to the public.

It was a beautiful morning; light breeze blowing in from the old rice fields. We found Dixie Rose in the tack barn waiting our arrival. As we started walking the sandy road past many outbuildings toward the main plantation home I was struck with two thoughts. First, I don't know how this gal maintains such an expansive piece of property so well! It is in beautiful condition. She has already done some marvelous restoration work on the plantation. Secondly, how can one describe the very old Live Oaks that dominate the plantation. They are unique, each with its own personality. I could visualize Innocenti when he first saw them realizing that his design would play second fiddle to the oaks as long as they survived. So, he selected five oaks with character and designed a formal garden of brick walkways and walls which highlight the oaks. Many of the old handmade bricks used are 'seconds' which means that they were burned or discolored in the firing process and this adds a nice patina to the walks.

The soil is what we call Low Country gumbo and this is why Dixie Rose is having a problem growing azaleas in dense shade. Her 'Plan B" idea is excellent and the plants should suit the soil condition. She is worried about the owner not approving her ideas. Dixie, why don't you put together the cost for your plan along with the reasons for your plant suggestions and just present it to him. Add some azaleas to the mix in the side gardens to keep him happy. But, the formal lines of the main garden must be planted in the general manner as we discussed and Innocenti visioned.

Dixie Rose has figured out how to grow hybrid tea roses in this hot, humid climate. Her rose gardens are healthy and loaded with blooms. She has a special green thumb! Especially when the summer has been spent fighting off armadillos which have been very destructive to lawns and gardens.

Yes, you all would have enjoyed this plantation stroll, standing beneath oaks that witnessed Sherman's troops burning the original house to the ground. Some of the old buildings remain such as the laundry house and sections of an old greenhouse. It is a beautiful plantation which can be purchased for a bit under five million dollars. Don't choke! I was at a new development last week where three acre lots were selling for a million dollars apiece. They don't begin to measure up to this old plantation with its history, beauty and restoration challenges.
ginger_nh
19 years ago
Dixie Rose' persistence in garnering expert opinion, Nandina's message, and the working relationship between the 2 gardeners is priceless in many ways--and what a name for a Southern gardener: "Dixie Rose." Thanks so much to both of you for providing a window into the world of Southern US restoration/historical gardening.

This is what I had hoped this forum would become when I lobbied for it last year.

Ginger
mjsee
19 years ago
grrrr. Azleas are NOT going to be happy under oaks that size...even if they water constantly. Too much shade...not to mention the soil conditions. I like the holly fern idea--and camellias should be fine. (as y'all know!) Pots are an excellent way of dealing with poor soil and massive oak roots.

I run intothis all the time. A customer came in yesterday--wanted suggestions on what to plant in a partly-shady bed, with large trees (she wasn't sure what kind--but I'm sure they are oaks.) When quizzed on what she meant by "partly shady" I discovered that this bed gets MAYBE an hour to 90 minutes of dappled sun. A day. In the summer, anyway. She was "drawn" to all the sunny-perennial plants--lavender in particular. I tried to convince her to go with the shady stuff that thrives in my yard...and get her "flower fix" from bulbs, but she would have none of it. So this woman bopught a lavender plant that she was CERTAIN would "get enough sun"...along with several coreopsis, and a number of other, unsuitable plants.

Plant torturer.

Hope you have better luck iDixierose!

melanie

Seeking ideas for difficult formal garden

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inkognito

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