I had the idea to make a herb garden in the form of a medieval chapel ruin like some ruins in my neighbourhood. I didn't carry it out because the masonry proved too difficult for me. I laid out a very small herb garden of two squares each 4x4 ft, framed by granite setts at the end of a patio. They are backed by an apse with the Apothecary Rose and Rosa Mundi. The patio was supposed to be the church floor! At the other end of this area is a short hedge of the Tidbit Rose, the gallica Conditorum. I think gallicas are the obvious choice for a herb garden as they were originally grown for their medicinal properties.

Since I do not like boxwood (although it grows here) I had an idea to use alchemilas as some sort of low border plant, to lay out the shapes. I don't know if that would work well and it won't be as tidy, but it should give a green structure impression. Alternatively it is probably possible to use any other green herb, since it is mass of same plant that counts really.

You could also probably use Chaenomeles (flowering quince) or gooseberries for the forms instead of buxus, there are low growing varieties that can be cut in very low hedges. Bonus of flowering quince is that it flowers quite nicely in spring.

For roses I would probably use whatever is hardy for you and does not have too big blossoms, also probably something of the smaller size. Briars/briar hybrids might be an option, since they have that wild flower/herb look.

Well, I have flirted with herb gardens for quite a few years but generally struggle to either keep everything within its alloted space, maintain the different soil and drainage requirements and have it looking aesthetically pleasing so, I now grow herbs here and there, in pots quite often (mints, sages) and convenient for regular use. I think, to have a really good formal herb garden, you need considerabley more discipline, control and planning if it is to be more than an admittingly fragrant but untidily romantic chaos....oh, and NEVER NEVER be tempted by tansy - an absolute swine which ruined my first herb garden and haunts me still. I think this set-up would also be the only one I would consider using standard roses in as well.

Thank you for the suggestions. I need to move a few things around in my kitchen garden and I'm considering putting my two Therese Bugnet roses and some herbs in an oval bed in the middle. There is a birdbath I'd like to put in the center, with a rose on either side. The bed would be about 9' x 13' so there would be plenty of room for some herbs, too.

Any suggestions? I need to move the roses, since the deer have been nibbling on them and I thought the herbs might keep them away. The deer only chewed on them once, then lost interest, but I think the roses and herbs together would make a nice focal point in the garden :)

Here is an idea with no hedges needed. It is very formal and symmetrical and I may well do it myself someday.

Decide how many different kinds of herbs you want. Let's say 12, just for the sake of discussion.

Buy 12 square chimney flue liners. They are not cheap, so check on a supplier before you do this. Last time I checked the larger ones were about $60 each (better size to use), and the smaller ones (more affordable) about $35. Prices may have changed since then. Next prepare your planting bed, digging and amending the soil. Then lay out a design with the chimney flues, which are going to act as bottomless pots. You will be burying the flues to about half depth, giving you good drainage but contact with soil. Here is the pattern I am visualizing:

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I tried to do this in ASCII but the format wouldn't hold so I drew it on a piece of paper and photographed it.

Anyway, you have a grid of planting spaces (the flues, represented by the X's) with a central feature such as a birdbath or ornament -- even a pillar-trained rose (represented by the box), and crossed pathways to allow easy access and pleasant strolling. I would encourage making the pathways broad. It is easy to underestimate how much space you will want. I would go with 3 feet at a minimum, 4 1/2 if two are to walk abreast. You won't want to move the flues later. They are heavy, especially once buried halfway and filled with soil. I would also make the pathways of deep wood chip or other mulch. It would be a serious pain in the neck to have to trim grass around the clay chimney liners. Why make all that extra work for yourself?

Once you have this established, then plant roses around the edge, again leaving a generous path. The roses are the spirals. This spacing is not only for easy access and visual beauty, but also so that the roses won't shade the herbs, many of which are sun-loving. This would create an enclosing frame around each corner. If you put all twelve roses on the outside and then a pillar in the center, that would give you 13 roses. That is either unlucky if you are superstitious, or a baker's dozen if you are of a more confident nature. Either way, you could play with the numbers, perhaps by omitting the central pillar rose.

Rosefolly

Here is a link that might be useful: Clay chimney flue liners

Lavender Lass when the AmeriFlora show was here in Columbus (about 10 years or so back) they had a lovely knot garden made from different colors of Thyme I believe. The plants grew about 8" tall and it appeared to be only a couple types that were taller and one was reddish. I don' know that this could be permanent however in your zone.
roseberri
Also, I have a wormwood that appears very hardy and bushy and appears to be something that could be a medium size hedge if trimmed a bit.

There is a formal garden of herbs at the Huntington, and although its fascinating, it also looks like the dog's dinner most of the time. Herbs are messy flopping sagging things drunkenly slopping about like a gang of slatterns on a Saturday night binge.

There's just nothing formal about them. It's the structure of boxwood hedging that makes for formality. As rosefolly suggests, you need something to provide the structure that herbs don't have.

I'm not sure if what I've done qualifies for what you are looking for but here goes.
In order to put a wood deck on the west side of our home, we had to build a retaining wall that surrounds the deck. The deck was then built within the stone retaining wall. There is a space of approximately 1 1/2 feet between the deck and stone wall.
One side of the deck abuts the house the remaining three sides is surrounded by the retaining wall. Dont know if you can invision what we've done???
Anyhoo. In the middle of the long wall is a cl. America, at each of the two corners is Mutabilis. The three rose b ushes are being trained to climb along the glass deck railing. Between the roses are the following herbs: Lavendar, Mucho Garlic, parsley, dill, oregano, mint, sage, rosemary, and basil, fever fiew. And a few others which I cant think of now.
The flowers on the lavendar is so pretty...the bees love it too. The garlic is growing round things that will be blooms but I keep cutting them off and putting them in salads and in mashed potatoes.
Have fun with your plans. Hope this helps a tad.
Jeannie

It has just occurred to me that I don't know if clay pots are cold hardy in zone 4. If you cannot leave clay pots outside in the winter for fear they would crack, then you will not be able to do this as I have described it. You will might be able to do it with wooden containers, though of course they will eventually rot. Perhaps you could build the structures with dry stack stone, or even use a few courses of brick to get the formal geometry and raised bed effect. It doesn't need to be very high to be effective.

You do need to do something if you want an herb garden to be decorative. I had not thought of it in just the way that HoovB described it (vivid and yes, accurate), but herbs are often rather weedy in appearance.

Rosefolly

You all have so many wonderful ideas! What I'm really looking for are rose/herb combinations that look good all summer. I have roses with lavender in front of them (very nice) but I'm wondering if the roses will give the bed the structure...with the herbs still easy to reach and pick as needed.

Rosefolly- I like your diagram. It gives me some good ideas, but I will have to adapt it to an oval area. You're right, pots won't work in zone 4, but I have one strip between the house and sidewalk that is all spearmint :)

Jeannie- Your area along the deck sounds beautiful! Do you have any pictures?

Formality means geometry, straight lines, repetition, uniformity and symmetry. Clipped hedges and globes. Rows. Squares.

I suppose you could get some sense of formality if you used the same rose throughout, which would provide repetition and uniformity.

Hi Lavendar Lassie: Wish I could post some photos for you; but I'm totally challenged when it comes to uploading photos. Wish I could.
I've promised myself that when I retire...next spring one of the first things I'll do is take a class to learn how.
Jeannie

My formal 12x12 herb garden with roses wound up being a chicken pen in one 6x6 square; a raised lettuce box with snapdragons and alyssum in another 6x6 square; lemon thyme, dahlias and a small rose in another square with a path running through. This garden was originally a patio surrounded by a flower bed. I expanded the exterior bed quite a bit and added a number of roses and perennials. On the interior, we chipped up the patio to put in a little rose and herb garden.

I'd seen a pic of a topiary chicken sitting on a nest so am trying to duplicate it. The little yellow blobs are lemon fizz santolina chicks, the purple alyssum is food, and there is a lavender fence to keep the chickens penned with G. Nabonnand, the tea rose guarding the gate.

The back of the square has a trellis with some roses that are going to climb up it, I hope.

I just found something I wanted to do, a topiary chicken, and built the area around that idea. Just for fun.

I don't know if the lavender will stay small enough to be in scale next year, but this year, it's a fun focal point. Last year I tried marigolds and spicy globe basil as an edging in a rose and herb garden and by the end of the summer it was a mess and I decided not to do that again because I didn't want to work that hard maintaining the edging.

Germander is supposed to be an edging that will stay small and only have to be clipped a little to maintain the look. I'm not sure how it would do in your zone. It's been so much fun to do this, although I am not sure what it will look like next year as all the plants will prob get too big. This summer, though, it's been a blast to go out and check on my no-fuss chickens, lol. Have fun making it look like what you want it to be. Gean

Here are some pics of my garden with chicken pen.

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square 2 - lettuce/snaps/thyme
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square 3 - dahlias with lemon thyme and lavender and small rose

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exterior shot
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Gean - your topiary chicken with the yellow 'chicks', etc. is the most creative, cutest idea I've ever heard of! That is absolutely adorable! Thanks for sharing!

I have a veggie-herb garden that is layed out formally and symmetrically. Square with an octagonal center. It is surrounded by boxwood with a pillar rose in the center as an accent (Aloha).
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