They definitely could be gone forever, but if it definitely isnt cold damage then it might come back. Last year I had a pygmy palm indoors that was in a terrible pot and very underwatered. It had spear pull, but when I took it out for the summer and kept it well watered and in the shade, it recovered from its spear pull. Now its slowly making more normal sized fronds and should make a full recovery next summer. What kind of temperatures did it see in its protection?
Good luck!
-Alex

Oh it's definitely not cold damage. The coldest they saw was -11 C or 12 F. They had fibreglass insulation and Christmas lights wrapped around the trunk. Two of my others had no insulation with Christmas lights NOT wrapped around the trunk and they are fine. I definitely cooked the other two. I'll see if I get any other input before I decide what to do.

If you're using plastic sheeting to cover them up, then the sun can definitely raise the temps inside drastically and cook your palms on sunny days, especially those that get into the 50s and higher. I wouldn't keep them really wet, but I would water them probably once every 3 weeks if you're seeing them get too warm. Palms should be kept on the dry side in the winter, but treating them like a cactus is not good either.

I have mine protected with plastic covered bubble wrap cages and have noticed that on the warmer days the environment inside these enclosures is quite humid and about 20 degrees warmer than the outside temp. Having said this, I know that a lot of palms actually don't like humidity, especially in the winter. I usually just leave them covered and on those warm, sunny days I just remove the top of the enclosure and let 'em air out :)

Did you not put a sensor in there to keep an eye on temps?

You need to keep the crown dry at this point,water only if the soil is dry,
as mentioned don't get any in the crown.

Can you take some pictures?

How many other leaves next to the spear has it lost?

Watch the remaining leaves,if more start to go you may want to
saw the dead area at the top off to expose healthy tissue and open up the
area where there is bud rot.

If you had your lights or heat laid out in such a way that the soil was broiled
too you may want to dig them up,cut off any need or damaged roots,
soak in Superthrive or another rooting hormone and then replant indoors in
a warm place where the roots can recover....

Good luck

I was hoping you would give me some input Jim. To answer your questions, no, I didn't have a sensor in there. We haven't had a whole lot of sun since they were covered I think the heat from the lights did it. I lost the spear on both and I think 3 leaves on one and two on the other (out of about 10 leaves on each). Where the remaining leaves come out from the trunk is brown for about the first 4 inches possibly due to the one bulb that was placed in the centre (5 watts each). The crowns are wet now because I left them uncovered to get some of the rain we have been having (they were watered before that with a touch of Miracle Grow as that was all I had on hand). Now that you have a little more info, do you think I should bring them in and do a little surgery on them ? I have some root stimulator so I could use that. I'll see if I can get some pics on here although I always read about people that have trouble posting them. I need to make a decision today (Saturday) because the weather is going back to cold again. Let me know what you think. Thanks !

I have to agree, sadly, that it appears it was the lights that caused the over heating. I'm thinking from your summary of the weather that you're in southern Ontario? I'm down in London, we've had very little sun, and the cold isn't the issue, it's the volumes of snow we received earlier in December from the streamers off of Lake Huron. Just uncovered one broken Rhododendron, one broken Mountain Laurel, a destroyed Pee Gee Hydrangea, and a snapped 3' red/silver maple cross from my grandmother's property up in Montreal. Very sad.

How long have you been growing your trachys outdoors in your neck of the woods? I'm a humble palm/tropicals enthusiast but I do over winter everything indoors from December to March. Good luck if you perform the surgery, I've tried and failed (sadly) on a T. fortunei in the summer when I lived out in Calgary; but I think the palm was determined to die.

You must have been using some large/hot lights if they were the cause of the die back. Were your lights on consistently throughout the season, or were they used sporadically. Is it possible that your environment was warm enough to encourage active growth which then got burnt when the lights and heat were turned off? A plant might tolerate a particular cold temperature in a dormant winter stage, but expose the plant to the same temp in the growing season, and it can outright kill it. I would NOT be watering it or feeding it at all this time of year by the way (normal rain and snow should be enough). Even if the palms do not die outright from whatever the cause was, they did take a big hit obviously and this will make their winter survival this year all more questionable. Growth for the coming growing season may also be stunted compared to normal (vigor will increase in subsequent years). But many palms can and DO SURVIVE from pulled buds.(I've had successful recovery from bud pull on Phoenix roebellini, and Washintonis in the past--one from cold, one from excessive summer rainfall.) Frankly, if they were mine, I'd be tempted to dig them out (don't know if your ground is frozen or not), containerize them, protect them from hard frost, give them an early start on the growing season, and see if they recuperate--betting that they would eventually. Good luck!

From what you are describing I think you should dig them up and preform an autopsy(so to speak),I don't
know if I asked about mulch,namely if the lights were laying on the soil etc.

This may have dried/contributed to the roots drying out if so.

I really wish I could see some pics to get a better idea,if you know how to load them to your computer you can upload to photobucket free and post them here,pretty easily.

Good luck with what ever you decide-BTW(I apologize if this was mentioned)better to water from the bottom(always)by hand in cases of spear-pull.

Let us know what happens(-: best of luck to ya-

P.S.

If you decide to dig them up,bring them inside and use the above mentioned procedure with regard to cleaning/trimming dead roots(if any)and using Superthrive etc,keep them in a warm place so the roots can recover faster,if you put them somewhere cold the roots will not move much.

Wow, Cocos you should be a detective ! I am in London also. These are my first palms and therefore my first winter which is why I'm having problems. Tell me what you've got growing.

Jim, I decided to leave them in the ground. I figured that digging them up would just stress them more so I put a little peroxide on the top adjusted the lights to match the ones that are doing fine and covered them all back up. Lost a couple of more leaves as well, not good. The soil was dry but I didn't check to see how deep. I had an extreme setup. I had 24 bulbs for each tree at 5 watts each. About half were on the soil and covered with 4 layers (yes 4) of fiberglass insulation which probably gave about an R30. The rest were either wrapped around the trunk or rested on top of the insulation. I put one bulb right in the centre of the leaves to protect the bud. So to answer your question, ya, it was mulched REALLY WELL. I'll see what I can do about getting some pics. It was raining all day so I didn't take any yet.

Thanks for all the advice everyone !

You may also want to invest in a thermostat of some sort so your lights will go off once the desired temp is reached. It should keep the lights from frying your palm. I use the thermostat off my kerosene torpedo heater, works very well. I have mine set to go off around 4 or 5 degrees Celcius (around 40 degrees F for my american readers). It keeps them in a cold dormant state and uses less energy, but warm enough to pull through the winter without damage.

If I understood what you just wrote correctly you may have totally cooked the feeder roots at the surface and
I would have to say DID.
You need to be very careful in spring about watering because there may be a lot of dead roots from that set up.

This would be another good reason to dig them up,definitely your call but follow your instincts.

There was someone else on this board that did something similar last winter,I won't say who but they would tell you the same story,anyway and more importantly,I would put down 2-4" of mulch and get the lights on top of that at the very least.

There is no need to put the insulation back over the light either.

There is a device they sell here in the states-not sure if they have them over there,it's called a Thermocube and it keeps the temp betwwen 35-45(F) if you get the T-3.

Not sure if this would work over there but worth looking into....good luck with your Trachys.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermocube

I would have to agree with Jim. You cooked your feeder roots. By placing the lights on the soil and then insulation over that, I bet the soil temps approached 100F with no moisture. If this is the case, expect total defoliation by spring and slow recovery next summer. I would dig it up and nurse it back to health for a year or two before planting out once more.

That's why it's important never to put lights directly on soil. Wrapping the trunk and fronds with lights is much more effective and will leave the soil cool, but not frozen. Also the heat from the lights will dissipate into the air.

I also think you should get a 35/45 thermocube to regulate the temperatures better. In two of my enclosures I actually use a space heater set on low at 40F. Works perfectly and doesn't bake anything. Discharge air is only about 40F warmer than ambient, so it blows 80F air for a few minutes, shuts off and doesn't turn back on for a long time.

That Thermocube thing is cool. I'm sure I could find it or something similar here. For now, I am going to leave them outside. I just bought a grow kit today for my other projects like my fifth Windmill that is "in the shop". It is younger than the ones outside and got too much sun and heat last year and didn't do too well. I also have my Musa and 2 seed trays so I think I might not have room to bring them in (plus I would need to buy another massive pot, more $$$). Once I get my little grow kit set up, I will see how it works and maybe bring them in in a couple of weeks. For now there are less lights per enclosure and no insulation. Although the lights are all on the ground now, with no insulation, most of the heat will go straight up and won't dry the soil as much. Plus now any water that leaks in will hit the soil instead of a bunch of insulation. I'm gonna check the soil regularly. If they survive until Spring would that root stimulator stuff help the roots recover ?

I just wanted to know how many fronds will a wind mill palm grow in a growing season

I would still put some mulch down and then the lights if you can,those bulbs can get over 100(F)

I would use the root stimulator,Palmbooster or Superthrive,basically anything that stimulates root growth is better than nothing(-:
Be careful about giving to much water until soil temps warm up and then increase gradually as rot can set in fast in warm weather.

Trachys can grow 3-4(slower ones)leaves per year to as much as 20+,depends on size,how well established it is and to some degree the variety...... and growing conditions.