Do a search on Datura.

Yep, Pistol, I think that's it. Thanks! My search found a post on the Brugmansia forum, under "Moonflower" that has a picture on the post by Patrick888 that looks like I remember these bushes to look. The link is attached. Then another search result was a garden seed site that says they're easy to germinate. So guess I'll try again this spring. all the same things I tried last year. Maybe I will have better luck. Maybe the seeds are just old or something. If I don't, maybe I'll just order some seed. I kinda have my heart set on them now.

I'd still like to know how y'all are getting your photos in your messages, though....

Here is a link that might be useful: Moonflower on GardenWeb

I put my photos on photo bucket then link them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Photo bucket

OK let me try this. I went to the photo gallery on GardenWeb and submitted my photo. I bet there'll be a lot of people saying, "What the heck did she put this ugly pic on here for?" But anyway this is what those seeds look like.

I did a little more searching and found one variety that takes up to 60 days to germinate. (!) That doesn't sound like it's so easy to me! So I've used an emery board on 18 of the little guys, now I'm soaking them in a bowl of warm water sitting on top of my water heater. It stays warm there all the time, but not hot. Tomorrow I'll plant ever so carefully in plant-starting mix, and cover with plastic wrap. And then I shall wait and see. I hope this link works like yours did.

Here is a link that might be useful: Moonflower seed

Yes , those are datura seeds. I have the "double purple" datura in my yard. I try to clip off the seed pods as soon as I see them developing but I always miss some and there is a forest of datura when they all sprout. I've never counted the number of days it takes for them to germinate but it seems like they start blooming mid summer to the end of summer so that would have to be 60 days.

Ilene,

I have grown several different daturas from seed--the common white singles, the double white, double yellow, double lavendar and purple ones, the dwarf ones, the white one with the lavender throat, etc. None of them are 'easy' to sprout, but it can be done.

I have had the best results with soaking the seeds in compost tea for a day or so, wrapping them in coffee filters, sealing them into zip-lock bag, and placing them in a fairly warm location such as the top of the refrigerator. It can take them a very long time to sprout.

I also have had some success sprouting them directly in small plastic cups filled with a sterile seed-starting mix. I placed the tray of cups on a seed germination heat mat and raised the plants under plant lights indoors until really warm weather arrived. They germinate somewhat faster when they have bottom heat.

Only the common white datura reseeds readily in my garden. The little sprouts do not emerge until the soil and air temps are quite warm. Once they start sprouting, I often have hundreds of them, just about as thick as grass. I think that daturas might be a good candidate for winter sowing as they seem to need cold stratification (in the wild) to encourage them to germinate.

The only readily-available datura seeds I haven't been able to get to germinate are the pink ones. I'm going to try them for a third time this year.

I also grow a couple of the related brugmansias and my brugs (in large pots) bloomed until a few days ago, and hadn't even gone into winter dormancy until the temps hit 17 degrees a couple of nights ago.

Once you get a datura to sprout, grow and flower, you should have them forever if you just let the seed capsules dry, split open and drop their seeds in the fall. My white-flowered daturas have been reseeding themselves here in southern Oklahoma ever since I planted them in 1999.

If you can't get those darned things to sprout and grow, I can dig you up some little sprouts in late spring and mail them to you. I usually don't notice them until sometime in May so they really are late to come up here. They grow very quickly, though, in our hot climate.

Dawn

Dawn, you are such a dear for offering to send me a plant. And I will be happy to take you up on it if I can't get these to germinate! I've sent an e-mail to you containing my e-mail and snail-mail addresses so you'll have them when you need them. I'd be happy to pay whatever you need for the postage, etc.

I guess I gave up on them too soon last year. I have planted my "stratified" and soaked seed in seed-starting mix in 18 little peat pots all crowded in together in an old square cake pan and covered the whole thing in plastic wrap. The wrap is pretty snug right now. Do I need to worry about the seed rotting before it can germinate? I set them about 10" under a floor lamp that typically gets pretty warm. I don't have anything to effectively do bottom heat unless I go out and buy a heating pad, and I may just do that. I have a few left -- I'm going to try the coffee filter thing with them. Hope I don't forget to check them! Three months is a long time. I'm glad to know that once I get one growing it will self-seed. I did scatter some of the seed outside last spring, so maybe something will come of that, but it didn't do anything all last summer. Next time someone gives me seeds, though, I'm going to get their name and phone number! ;)

And thanks, tdsmith, for the positive ID. After I'd finished soaking them, those little points sticking out were cream-colored and through a magnifying glass they look deceptively like they are a new little shoot trying to come through. You just kind of expect them to be growing. Which is why I gave up too soon.

Ilene,

Just keep me posted and I'll send you some of those little sprouted seedlings in May or whenever they sprout if you need me to do so.

There is always a chance that any seed which a person is attempting to sprout might rot, but it probably won't. My seeds that self-sow lay out there on the ground all winter long, with all the recurring rain and frost and alternating periods of hot and cold and they must not rot, because tons of them germinate....and in yucky, mucky clay soil too!

One of my favorite ways to sprout difficult seeds outside is to scatter a few of them on top of the soil in my big 60 gallon planters in the fall. Then I rake just the tiniest amount of soil over them.....in case they need light to germinate. After that, I igonore them and they are at the mercy of the weather. They usually sprout in the spring, either shortly before or after the last frost, depending on what kinds of seeds they are. I like to use this method to germinate seeds of wildflowers like purple coneflower which tend to be slow sprouters for me inside.

Today I received my copy of the 2008 Select Seeds catalog and it has several of my favorite daturas in it. I was drooling over all the lovely flowers.....and wishing for spring!

Dawn

Sounds like a plan.

I took a few outside and scattered them in one of the smaller raised beds around my little blueberry bushes. The ground's frozen so a bird will probably eat them, but maybe a few will survive. I guess we've got all the bases covered, now all we have to do is wait.....

Thanks a bunch Dawn! --Ilene

Ilene,

Datura seeds are very easy to germinate using the winter sowing method. I start several varieties every year this way. I'm ashamed to say, but I still have a few growing in soda bottles in the greenhouse that I never got around to planting this last spring. I NEVER water them and they are still alive after almost a year in a two liter bottle.... (please don't turn me into the plant police for plant abuse).

This is a "no fail" way to start the seeds. I use a two or three liter clear soda bottle as my container. I poke 3-4 small holes in the bottom of the bottle for drainage, and 3-4 slashes near the top for air circulation. Then midway down the bottle, cut it almost in half, leaving a couple inches as a hinge on your bottle. Then bend it open, add 1-2 pints of potting soil, wet the soil and let drain. Pat your seeds into the wet soil. Then tape the bottle back together, throw away the lid, and set the bottle outside for the winter. That's all there is to it. The seeds will germinate when they're ready, sometime in early spring probably. The bottle will act as a mini greenhouse all winter. After all danger of frost is over, transplant the seedlings where you want them. So easy and works like a charm.

I use a fish fillet knife for cutting the drainage holes in the bottle, or a knife with a thin tip. Then I use scissors to cut it in almost in half. This is certainly not the only way to do it, just the technique I have found the easiest for me. Winter sowing is so much fun. If you're not familiar with the technique, check out the forum here on Garden Web. It works well for most types of seeds, and is my favorite method for starting datura seeds.

Here is a link that might be useful: Winter Sowing

Dawn, I've lurked in a lot of different GardenWeb forums, but I hadn't seen that method. I can see many advantages to the method other than the obvious. The birds can't eat the seed, the cat can't disturb it and you always know where you planted it! ;-)

Thanks for the link, now I have another place to lurk! --Ilene

My moonflower seeds have sprouted! (the ones that I planted inside) I don't know if they're going to survive till time to plant, as I didn't expect germination for another month or two. But I have them under light, they're still trying to get their false leaves out of the seed case (boy am I tempted to help but I won't).

I also planted some outside in a pop bottle, Dawn, like you said. In fact, I lurked a long time over in the winter sowing forum and found someone who's giving away assorted seed for a sasbe. There's also the wintersowing website that will send you an assortment of seed for a sase. I already got them in the mail, there are probably 8 or 10 different kinds of seed. Sometimes not many seed, but they say germination is pretty high in winter sowing, so 8 seeds will probably produce 7 or 8 plants, which will be more than plenty for me. I had never considered this idea before, so I'm going to use my free seed to try it! Thank you for sharing your gardening wisdom. I know I have found it so valuable many times and have learned a lot in the almost 1 year that I've been coming to this forum.

Ilene,
Be careful. You'll get hooked on winter sowing. I was so successful with it, I wound up with thousands of plants. I had a hard time giving them all away, LOL. My friends would avoid me in spring because I'd be trying to force plants on them. I would plant over 100 soda bottles every winter, and I became an addict at collecting seeds. No matter where I was, I was picking seeds off plant. I got really wrapped up in trading plants and seeds for a few years too. I have an obsessive personality so I really got out of hand. Now, I try to control myself a little better, and I only plant maybe ten bottles of seeds each winter. Now I will start them in the bottles, but grow them in my greenhouse so they grow really fast. If I had any sense I'd be trying to sell some of my abundance, but instead I just give it away. I am glad you're having fun with winter sowing. It sure makes winter more pleasurable if you get to play in the soil.

You know, Wallflower, I can see how that can happen. There's something so satisfying about seeing those little seedlings popping up out of the dirt. It's the miracle of birth, actually!

The moonflower seeds that came up were not from my winter=sowing experiments, though, but were from sanding down the seed with an emery board, soaking for 24 hours and then planting in seed-starting mix, covering the tray in plastic and putting it under an incandescent light that seems to put off a lot of heat. I expected a long wait, but checked them every day. Today, I have ten little plants, most of them have managed to throw off the seed case, finally, and one or two of them have the beginnings of true leaves showing.

I am, however, doing a bunch of winter sowing. I have them mostly in plastic milk jugs and 2-liter pop bottles. The people at wintersown.org sent me some seed and so I had some to experiment with. And of course I got carried away again buying seed.

Lots of people buy plants in my area, I thought if I was successful beyond what I need for my garden, I would pot things up and put them in my garage sale this year. Whatever they bring might help pay for the seeds and seed-starting mix I have bought. DH keeps rolling his eyes, like "Here's another hair-brained thing you're getting into," so I really hope this is successful. I have not sown my wintersown things very thickly. When the seed is big enough to handle, I've only planted about six seed. When the seed is tiny, I scatter quite a bit more than that, but not enough so that there will be a "carpet" of seedlings in the bottle. Since some of my seed packages don't have much in them, I just hate to waste. Things I have wintersown are:
Moonflower
Anise Basil
Cinnamon Basil
Lime Basil
Sacred Purple Basil
Tansy
Grape tomato
Marglobe tomato
Hopi Red Dye Amaranth
Giant Imperial Larkspur
Aquiligua
Pentstemon
Mexican Marigold
Dwarf Marigold
Motherwort
Rosemary
Wildflowers (I have no clue what's in this, there were about 9 different-looking seed that I separated out as best I could and sowed in separate bottles. In this case, I did plant all the seed, as there were only 6-8 of each kind of seed or a small scattering of tiny seed.)

I think I'm done but I sent a SASBE to someone over on the wintersown forum who says the package will have a lot of different seed, so when that comes I will probably be scrounging around for bottles & jugs.

We've been having some really erratic weather here, and I worry that maybe the seedlings will come up 'way too soon and then freeze to death during April. Last year we got two full days and nights of freezing weather in mid-April RIGHT AFTER I set out some of my plants. Even though I covered them, I lost all my peppers. And my peach, plum and apple trees were blooming so I had no fruit on the trees last summer. I'm finding it hard to understand "when" to set out the seedlings from wintersown seeds. Some say as soon as two sets of true leaves have emerged. For me, that's likely to be 'way before April 15. They say wintersown plants are more resistant to cold than others, so maybe you just set them out and don't worry about the effects of the late freeze? Or am I going to have to go out and cover everything? I am going over to wintersowing and try to get someone to clarify. Most of those folks don't live in Oklahoma, but I'm sure some of them have erratic weather too. If you, Wallflower (and Dawn and anyone else from Oklahoma who has had experience with this) know the answers, I'd like to hear from you. Remember this is northeastern Oklahoma, which is colder than the rest of the state.

I'm having a lot of fun, anyway, and I do enjoy these forums and seeing and hearing what everyone else is doing. I appreciate each of you who write in your comments, even though I don't post real often, (and when I do, I ramble), I do still love to read what everyone has to say.

Ilene,
I very rarely lost a plant while it was in the WS bottles. That's just very rare. I wish I could post some pictures here of beautiful little seedlings up in my bottles, outside covered with snow. It didn't faze them. The bottles act like mini greenhouses and keep them warm as toast. :)

I'm in south central OK, Garvin County, so I am a little warmer than you are. Here I can set my seedlings out by around April 1-15. I usually had so many plants, it'd take me a month or longer to get them all set out. They generally won't outgrow their bottles (remember, I have some purple and yellow datura still growing in bottles from LAST year)!! I'd just wait to plant them until after your average last frost date.

I much prefer the winter sowing method over starting seeds under lights. My seedlings would get so leggy growing them under lights, and then it was such a hassle getting them hardened off in the spring. With Winter Sowing, there is no need for hardening off the plants, and they're rarely ever leggy either. I even started my tomato seeds in my winter sown bottles. Now, with the greenhouse, the technique works incredibly well, although it's no longer truly "winter" sowing when I do it inside the greenhouse.

I think you'll make a killing at your garage sale selling your excess WS plants. Your husband is going to be very surprised, ROTFL. I am excited for you. I'm just sure you'll do well with the sale. Be sure to advertise "starter plants" in your garage sale ad. It'll help bring in the customers and I'm betting they'll be your biggest money makers. Good luck!! If you need some more seeds, I can help you out. I have a huge tote full that I'm never going to plant. Some of the seeds are a couple years old, but they've been kept cool and should still be good. I'd love to see you do well selling plants this summer.

Ilene,

I do think that wintersown plants are more hardy but they still will freeze if the soil or air temps get too low. How much cold can they take? That varies depending on the plant.

Mulched plants have a better chance of survival. Covered plants have a better chance of survival. Well-watered plants survive better than plants with dry roots. Plants that have been properly hardened off to the sun, cold and wind have a much higher survival rate than those that have not had a chance to harden off. Not many plants, though, could survive an extended cold spell like we had late last spring.

I kept tomato plants alive in the ground for about 3 weeks last year during all that awful late cold weather. I basically built a temporary green house over them AND each plant had a 3 to 5 gallon bucket of water to hold and release heat all night long AND they were mulched with straw and chopped oak leaves. So, it is sometimes possible to keep plants alive in late cold spells, but it is an incredible amount of work.

I have noticed that hollyhocks, larkspur, poppies and other plants that generally pop up out of the ground here in December or January can take quite a lot of cold, but even they will freeze back to the ground sometimes.

If you can hold your seedlings in their wintersown containers for just a couple of weeks more, I think you wouldn't have to worry about losing them.

Good luck with your plant sale. I agree with Dawna that you probably will make a killing on your plants since so many people don't raise their own from seed.

Dawn

Wolflover, I do apologize for calling you"Wallflower"! I didn't have my glasses on this morning LOL! Thank you for being so gracious about it!

I will never turn down seed. E-mail me directly. I have some extra from last year I could trade, or if I don't have anything you can use, I'll send you a SASE.

I guess I got carried away and planted too soon. Next year I will have a better idea of how soon to plant.

Oh, Dawn, I didn't see your post until just now!

If the plants don't grow too big for the bottles/jugs, I will hold them that way till after danger of frost, then. If they get too big maybe I'll just turn DH's favorite room into a potting room! (evil grin)

I have been starting plants from seed for a couple years now, with some success except for last year because I had "bad dirt". But like you say, Dawn, the hardening off is a pain. Since I'm gone for most of the day, I can't just leave them out for an hour and then bring them in. I have had success with putting them out in a crate with old curtain sheers over them for the first few days, then gradually removing the cover. If I can avoid the hardening off process that will save me a lot of work.

I live in NW Oklahoma, My DIL has white moonflowerw for the last couple years, I tried planting seeds last year and they didn't survive so will try the seeds in a bottle this year, would like to have some purple flower seeds. I enjoy this forum. Very informative and frindly people. Havent tried the bottle method. Will soon !!

Caroline, e-mail me. I got some purple/white moonflower seed sent to me. I think I could share a few with you. I have not planted any of them yet.

My white moonflower seedlings are doing well. They got pretty leggy so I dropped the little peat pots into a 12-oz plastic drink cup with about an inch of soil in it, and then gently filled up the cup with more soil, leaving about the top inch of each plant poking out. They all have their first set of real leaves. I hope I can keep them going till it's warm enough to plant them!

When I was talking about the plants at work, my boss overheard, and she has a degree in horticulture. She said, "Ilene, you KNOW, don't you, that Moonflower is nothing more than JIMSON WEED?" No, I hadn't known that. She said it grows wild in the fields and farmers herbicide it because it makes the cows sick. Now, that's a fine how-de-do.

Well, I don't care, I don't have any cows nor do any of my neighbors, and if some farmer's cow is actually rude enough to come and eat my Moonflower that I have babied along up to this point, they deserve to get sick. haha

Ilene,

Your boss is correct that the common white datura that grows wild is often commonly referred to as Jimsonweed. That's one of two names I knew it by when I was growing up in Texas, and the other one was "loco weed". As the old story goes, the Jamestown settlers threw some datura leaves into some soup they were making (they were starving, after all, and foraging for wild plants to help them survive), and they became ill after eating it. I don't remember if any of them died from that experience, but some of them had some hallucinogenic experiences.

Although we like to grow it for its' lovely flowers, some people do use is as a 'drug' and overdoses of it can cause serious side effects, including toxicity, respiratory arrest and even death.

I think I read somewhere that some native American tribes may have used it in certain ceremonies due to those hallucinogenic properties.

I grow my daturas in various places on my property and my domestic animals (cats, dogs, guineas and chickens) don't nibble at the plants at all. The deer, however, do sometimes eat the leaves if we are in a drought and food is scarce. And, no, I don't know if the deer suffer from the hallucinations after eating the leaves.

Dawn

I think jimsonweed flowers actually open at sunset and close (never to open again) the following day once the sun gets to them.

A also think it has been illegal for the last few years to cultivate jimsonweed in Oklahoma. (I suspected there was a criminal element on this forum!)

I had one plant come up last year in a giant pile of grass clippings that I collected from lawn services a couple of years ago. I saw the flower as I was parking the tractor in the shed for the night, and I researched it in order to find out what it was.

It was the most amazing (giant) flower I had ever seen (IMO). After every good rain, it would get more flowers a week or two later.

Scott, clarify please, are you saying we're all in trouble here? Somehow I think my boss would've told me had I been cultivating an illegal plant, she's motivated to keep me workin'!

Ilene,

I do not believe you are in any danger. : )

We had a big discussion on noxious and prohibited plants in the spring or summer of 2005 and what we discovered is that the laws are sometimes confusing. Plants that are prohibited or controlled in some manner can be found on several different lists, but there is no "master list" that any of us ever found at that time.

The noxious weeds that are vigorously prohibited are musk thistle, Canada thistle and Scotch thistle. (If these grow on your property, you are legally obligated to remove them before they set seed.)

Then there is a list of plant seed that is prohibited in varying quantities. In 2005, there were 36 plants on that list. Mostly they are wild grasses and forbs whose seed are prohibited in bags of commercially-sold seed, or are allowed in very small quantities (because it is virtually impossible to have seed so clean that NONE of the weed seed is in there). This includes some very common weeds like bindweed, cocklebur, dock, johnsongrass, wild mustard, and nutgrass, among many others, including the aforementioned thistles.

Also, there are those plants like marijuana and opium poppies (and others as well) that are prohibited by federal controlled substance laws.

I haven't seen common datura on any of the lists of prohibited plants, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: previous thread on noxious weeds

It seems that some Mustang students became ill in 2004 from ingesting the plant, and HB2166 came about as a result because there was no way to prosecute the ones who distributed the plant.

I can't tell if it is TECHNICALLY illegal to just cultivate it, or to cultivate it with intent use or distribute as a drug. The info I find from searches is shaky.

Regardless, I think we are all safe to let it live in our yards or fields as long as no ingesting is taking place.

Ilene, we know you have been ingesting the seeds! You can't fool us!

Scott,

The Mustang case brings to mind some 2006 legislation in Oklahoma that partially prohibited one particular variety of salvia which, apparently, can be used as a "drug" in some way. From what I remember, the law allows ordinary gardeners like us to grow the salvia, but prohibits the possession of an "enhanced extract" of the plant. I guess there always will be some people looking for a way to use otherwise innocent plants as intoxicants.

I agree that those of us who grow datura for the flowers (they are a favorite with the hummingbird moths and other night-flying moths in our yard) are probably OK. However, I live in the middle of a lot of horse and cattle ranchers, and I don't plant my flowers anywhere near the "edges" of our property, because I don't want the seeds to self-sow onto anyone else's land and make their cows or horses "loco".

I bet Ilene is just happy that her soil is "ingesting" the seeds and she'll have those lovely, white trumpet-shaped flowers this year! :)

For what it is worth, kitty cats have long used catnip as an intoxicant, but it has not yet been added to the list of prohibited plants. (smiling) My cats just crush the plants to the ground every chance they get. Luckily, it self-sows and comes up here and there around the garden, so every now and then a plant they haven't yet 'discovered' and crushed actually makes it to a decent size before they finally find it and destroy it by 'loving on it'.

I suppose there probably are tons of plants that have the potential to be 'abused' by people who are looking for a new way to "get high" and I think that kind of experimentation could prove to be very dangerous as many plans are poisonous if ingested in various ways.

I love daturas and brugmansias and always have them around the place, but I grow them strictly for their gorgeous, huge trumpet-shaped blooms. Happy datura growing, Ilene!

Dawn

LOL Dawn, about the cat and catnip. I once had a big black cat who would "nap" under the leaves of a catnip plant. It was growing right next to the birdbath, which was a hoot, because he was a hunter, but when he got to the birdbath, the catnip would make him not care about the birds!! If ever a cat got high on catnip it would be him, under there just kind of "snorting". Then he'd take off across the yard as if something was after him and leap over the fence! The cat we have now, a long-haired gray part persian (her mother was a black cat, however) is not interested in catnip and seems to be annoyed by it.

I bet everyone's sick of this thread, but I had to add this about the cat.

Scott, c'mon over sometime and I'll make you a poppy-seed cake. ;~) --Ilene

Ilene,

Well, I guess if anyone is tired of this thread, they can ignore it!

Here in southern Oklahoma, we usually refer to jimsonweed or locoweed as Angel's Trumpet and refer to the morning glory-related vining night-blooming flower (Ipomoea alba) as Moonflower, although I have noticed many people use the name moonflower for both datura and impomoea. So, if you ever ask me about moonflower, and my answer seems 'wrong', it might be that I am thinking of the vining one and not the bushy, shrubby one. LOL

Had a coyote in the yard today....from about 11 a.m. on and off until about 2 p.m., so I had to lock up the cats on the screened-in porch so they wouldn't get eaten. I had some cranky cats. I scattered dried catnip on the floor. They rolled around in it, blissed out and then relaxed and slept for the rest of the day. Now I am out of dried catnip, so I hope they enjoyed it.

While you are making Scott a poppy-seed cake, you could brew up some catnip tea to go with it. (grinning)

Dawn

LOL! I'll be wearing my poinsettia corsage...

One last post from me. The bush on my place that appears to have been jimsonweed had such amazingly huge and white flowers that I drug my wife, all of my kids, and every visitor that I had this past summer down to the shed to see it. Because of all the rain, it got really big, had hundreds of flowers total, and many seed pods. I am hoping to have more next summer. Absolutely beautiful!

Scott

Scott,
Your plant will more than likely come back from the roots, and you'll have babies all around it to share, if any of your friends want them. Mine always came back from the roots except for one year when we had an extremely wet, cold winter (winter of 01-02, I believe). I had one datura that would get eight feet tall. It was the biggest plant I've ever seen, and it came back every year. Nobody could believe it was such a giant plant. I had no idea they weren't supposed to get that big! I lost it that winter, and none of the other datura plants afterwards ever got over 4-5' tall.

Dawn, my MIL gave me my first datura. She called it a moonflower plant, so that is what I called it for years. I didn't have any idea what it was until I discovered Garden Web. I get embarrassed now thinking about me talking about my moonflower bush when everyone was talking about their moonflower 'vine', LOL. On GW I learned it was actually a datura, and I almost flipped out when I found out what it was . Here I was growing this poisonous plant in reach of my child, my horses and cows, and all my other pets, and I had no idea how deadly poisonous it was. So obviously most animals aren't going to eat it unless they are starving, because mine had never touched it in the 14 years I grew it prior to knowing what it was.

Ilene, I haven't mailed your seeds out yet but I will soon!
Dawna

Dawna,

My daturas tend to spread out more horizontally in full sun and more vertically in part shade. The tallest I have had one get is about 5' tall. To be fair, though, they are usually growing in the narrow band of sandy soil (almost pure sand) between a pecan tree and the guinea house/pen and I NEVER feed or water them. I can only imagine how well they would do if they had decent soil, an occasional feeding and some water in the hottest part of the summer. LOL

I grew one down near the mailbox one summer and one of my rancher neighbors stopped and asked me nervously if I "knew" what it was. I said "Of course, it is locoweed," and went on to tell him I had planted it there. He was horrified. So, even though the rancher types work to eradicate it from their property....there I am planting the darn things! I promised him I'd cut off the thornapples (seed pods) before they split open and scattered everywhere, and I did. I also never grew one down near the road again.....no point in making the neighbors nervous. (grinning)

Regarding poisonous plants, tons of the plants we grow ARE poisonous. I think many people would be shocked if they realized how many ornamentals can be dangerous if ingested. I just try to make sure that I don't grow anything like castor bean in an area where the dogs might get hold of the beans, which contain ricin. Otherwise, I don't worry too much.

I remember that very cold winter early in the 2000s. I lost some zone 8 plants (technically we are zone 7B if they haven't changed things lately) and haven't planted any zone 8 plants since!

It was 12 degrees here Thursday night and that's the coldest we've been in a while. I do think the natural cold stratification helps a lot of my reseeding plants, including daturas, break dormancy and (eventually) sprout. I also have some daturas that come back from their roots (the ones in sandy soil) and some that don't come back from their roots (the ones in clay soil in a very wet and cold winter).

Dawn

I know there are several plants that are poison, so will tell my DIL, my son does not like them because , he says they are like weeds. When I tell him they are a weed, I am
sure he will destroy them, they live on a ranch.
Ilene I sent you a email,

I agree about so many plants being poison. The farming/ranching community and those who live in town do have different views on things such as this. In town, our domestic animals are more picky about what they eat (in most cases) than livestock are. So we tend not to worry. My mother loved the tropical look of castor bean plants. She had a whole row of them along the back fence. As a little girl, I used to collect the pretty beans and play with them. What if I had put one of them in my mouth and accidentally swallowed it? Well, I wouldn't be here today. And back in the 50's they probably wouldn't have even been able to figure out what it was that offed me. LOCAL CHILD DIES MYSTERIOUSLY.... The beans are too pretty, I wouldn't ever plant a castor bean seed where children are apt to be. However, I can't remember the last time I saw any child munching on leaves, so I think the other things are relatively safe.

The human race is still learning about the medicinal properties of plants. Many can be beneficial for what ails you if you know what you're doing, but can be lethal if you don't! I watched a program recently that reported there are scientists who are collecting seed of every kind of plant they can find, for long-term storage, because all is still not known about the healing properties of many plants and they're afraid something will go extinct before they discover that it has a substance in it that cures cancer or AIDS, etc.

Native Americans knew that chewing the bark of a willow tree would cure headaches. Aspirin, one of the safest and most widely used drugs in our country, used to be made from an extract of the bark. Now it's made synthetically, I believe. If you go to Wikipedia and enter the name of an herb or a flower, there will most likely be a section of how it has been used medicinally. This was one of the skills of the Native American medicine man. He knew his plants. It was a skill that was handed down for generations. But in my youth, doctors had low opinions of those who used "natural" remedies, suggesting there was no possible way anything like that could even work, and believing the patient would waste time in healing by going down that path. It is amazing to me how things swing back and forth within a long period of time. Now, in my so-called "golden years", doctors have started actually recommending the use of certain herbal remedies, and the eating of certain foods.

I also read that the "witches of Salem" were actually victims of hallucinations brought on by ingesting mold on rye bread, which was a staple in the community. This mold was similar to LSD.

No, I'm not a witch, or even leaning in that direction, should anyone wonder. But isn't it interesting when you consider the possibilities of the plants around us? (I wonder if Bermuda grass has any healing properties) ;~)

LOL, on the Bermuda grass having "healing abilities". But then, it does "heal" the empty bellies of my horses. :) That's the only thing I like about that stuff!

In the early years of my gardening, I wouldn't grow Foxglove for fear my horses would accidentally get in the yard and eat them. Little did I know back then, that half the plants in my yard would poison the horses. Eventually I threw caution to the wind and started growing whatever I wanted. That was after I found out that my moon flower plants were actually DATURA, and the horses and cows had never touched them. HaHa.

Dawn, I believe datura likes sandy soil the best. I've only grown them in sandy soil, so I don't know that to be fact, but my plants got really large growing in sand compared to my friends who grew them in better soil. I never fertilized mine, ever, but I would water them. The ones that grew to 8' tall were staked, other wise they'd sprawl all over, which looked really cool. I had the three plants, 8' tall, that sprawled over a 25' section of 6' fence and made a solid hedge. The smell and the 100's of flowers were out of this world... I haven't tried growing them at my new house. We're mostly clay soil here, so I don't know if they'll do as well here as back at the farm. Or even if they'll come back from the roots in this clay.

That winter of 2001-2002 I lost thousands of cannas. I had at least 25 varieties then, and lost everything except 17 of the old fashioned red indica cannas. It was really a heartbreaker. I had never lost a canna over winter prior to that. I also lost a lot of my zone 8 plants (but that didn't keep me from planting them again, LOL). I replaced my cannas over the next couple of years, then got infected with the canna virus and went from over 50 varieties down to about 20 now, it seems. Can you tell I am (used to be) a collector. That good old OCD kicking in!

Ilene,

I read that about the mold/rye connection to the odd behavior that let to some people being labeled as "witches" and I wonder what modern-day ills might be linked to strange food or chemical reactions that science has not discovered.

Dawna,

I do have some come back in clay soil, but not as reliably as those in sandier soil.

I guess we all remember that horrible winter of 2001-2002! I lost cannas too, as well as many other plants, but have replanted some cannas since then.

Is there any good news going on with the canna virus situation? I haven't heard anything lately.

And, I think that most people who love plants are collectors of one sort or another, don't you. LOL

It is so cold here this week, but I am dreaming of spring!

Dawn