Oh, goody! Your catalogs always arrive a few days before mine, so I guess I'll start watching the mail for mine next week. LOL

I have received catalogs from L. L. Beene and Eddie Bauer, and I haven't bought anything from them in 20 years. You think they'd take the hint?

You're not going to order any tomato seeds right? Cause we know you have a few of those already. LOL

Dawn

I also rec'd a Harris Seed catalog. This is my first catalog from them. Are their seeds really good quality? Their prices seem to be very reasonably. I have already went through the catalog and circled everything that I would like to try, but was unsure about ordering from them or Park Seed.

I ordered from Harris for the first time last year and felt the seed quality and germination was very good.

Dawn are you kidding? Are you hinting I have a weak will? hehe. I need sweet corn seeds and have stated that earlier. Really only need one variety. Especially in the quanities they sell in. But how is an addict to narrow down 70 varieites to one? Not possible. So at least 3. Then I might as well order some spinach and other greens to put in the cold frame being that I'm paying shipping already. I haven't spent a lot of time looking through it but a few black marks ended up in the tomato section. Just making sure my pen point hadn't dried out. hehe. Probably in the next day or two I will fill out an order so will see how strong my will is. Jay

MSpriggs,

Given a choice between Harris and Park Seeds, I'd choose Harris hands-down every single time. My personal opinion is that Park Seeds is not nearly the quality company it was 10 or 15 years ago, and I only order from them if they are the sole provider of a particular variety I am seeking. I don't think I've ordered from them in 3 or 4 years now because there are many companies that are much better, including Harris, Willhite Seed, J. W. Jung, Victory Seeds, Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds, Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, Seed Savers Exchange, Select Seed Antique Flowers, Seeds of Change, Tomato Growers Supply Company, Totally Tomatoes, Peaceful Valley Farm Supply, Pine Tree Garden Seeds, etc........

In general, Harris is more reliable than Park with better germination and faster shipping and their prices are normally better, at least on the stuff that I buy. I am addicted to Harris and have to order from them every year. Some of their hybrid tomato varieties have become staples in my garden and I plant them every year because they outperform more well-known hybrid tomatoes like Better Boy and Celebrity.

Jay,

I would never imply you are weak-willed. In fact, I think you have to be very stong-willed to garden so enthusiastically in southwestern Kansas where the elements seem stacked up against you. I think you might have a tomato addiction, but that's only because it takes an addict to know one....

I noticed on their website that they are offering more and more corn seed with Insect Guard and I am not crazy about that. (For those of you not familiar with that, it involves pre-treating seed with one or more pesticides and I prefer to buy untreated seeds.)

Jay, go ahead and buy more corn seed than usual. Then you'll have an excuse to plow up another quarter-acre to make room for more corn plants. If you hurry, you can plow up and amend the soil for the new corn bed now before the ground freezes.

I wonder how those black ink marks ended up on the tomato pages? You know, if you hadn't been sitting there with a pen in your hand, I bet it wouldn't have happened.

I don't blame you for ordering from Harris. When the time comes that Harris doesn't have anything I want to order, y'all will know I'm ready for the rocking chair in the nursing home!

Dawn

Dawn,
I already have an excuse to break out more. Fist I'm a big believer in fate and being logical. I'm planning on buying or buidling a couple of storage buildings soon. Then will move the things I have stored int he old chicken house. It is surrounded on 3 sides by the garden. So only makes sense to square the garden up by adding it. And it has a dirt floor so the chickens added their waste for several years. I can see more sweet corn or maters. As too the black marks. I was using a felt tip pen and they tend to dry out. After marking the sweet corn I was going through the pages looking for the bell peppers and came to this page with shiny red maters first. So to keep the pen tip moist while looking at them I had to make a few black marks. But when I went back and filled out the order I only wrote down one. Of course I haven't sent it yet!. Yes many of the sweet corn varieties they only offer with the treatment. A few they offer treated and untreated. I put down one at least that was treated as I had no choice unless I didn't order. Jay

Thanks Dawn.
I was looking through my Harris Seed catalog and noticed that there are a lot of things you can buy, but in very large quantities. Hopefully, the things I want to try come in smaller quantities. Maybe you can help me with tomatoes. I want a beefy tomato with few seeds that is fairly good size. My tomatoes were just awful this year. I didn't get but a few and then they weren't very big at all!! I was really disappointed. My cherry tomatoes did well. But, by the time I had enough ripe to harvest it just wasn't enough for a family of 5 to munch on. So, I'd take advice on those also. I think I'm going to plant a few more of those this year so I can get more at a time when I harvest them. My kids just love to harvest with me. Although, I have to watch my 3 year old because she picks them too soon!! Then I have to put them in the window sill and wait for them to ripen that way. I think the cherry toms that we planted this year was sweet 100.
Thanks.

Melissa,

You're welcome. (And, there was a time I thought Park was a great company, but something has really changed there in recent years.)

First of all, don't judge any particular tomato on the basis on last year's performance because for most people in our region the weather was too odd and too wet and that really affected both the flvor and performance of many tomatoes.

Secondly, do you remember what kinds of tomatoes you grew this year?

Some of my best performers in recent years have been Jet Star, Ramapo, Supersonic, Prime Time, and Moreton(all of the preceding are from Harris, except Ramapo and you have to buy it directly from Rutgers/NJAES) as well as Better Bush (for extra early tomatoes), Sophie's Choice and Glacier (also for earlies), Momotaro, Brandy Boy, Indian Stripe (similar to Cherokee Purple), True Black Brandywine, Nebraska Wedding, Royal Hillbilly, Estler's Mortgage Lifter, Radiator Charlie's Mortgage Lifter, Valena Pink, Tennessee Britches, Scarlet Red and Red Defender (both new to me in 2009 and outstanding producers with good flavor)....I could go on forever.

Cherries that perform exceptionally well for me (I harvest and dehydrate thousands each year) include Tess's Land Race Currant, Black Cherry, Sweet Million (better flavor and a better producer for me than Supersweet 100), Sun Gold, Riesentraube, Coyote, Grape, Rose Quartz and Ildi. I also grew a mixed row of Yellow Canary, Pixie Orange and Red Robin (all topping out at about 15-20" tall) along the edge of the black-eyed pea bed and they produced huge loads of cherry type tomatoes. They also are the perfect sized plants for a toddler to pick from (this could be a disadvantage or an advantage).

For great production and decent flavor, I like Better Boy and Big Boy, even though they are common old everyday hybrids and nothing special like the heirlooms. and think Beefmaster and Big Beef are great hybrids too. So is Whopper. (Jay, what am I forgetting here?)

One key to success....and it is easier to say "do this" than to actually do it because the weather can be so very uncooperative....is to transplant your tomato plants as early as you can and then protect them during late freezes. My best crops normally come from plants I set out in March here in southern OK. Why does it matter? Because hot weather interferes with tomato pollination/fertilization, so to get a good crop you have to have your plants in the ground and growing and setting fruit well before the hot weather arrives. All the bite-sized tomatoes, like the cherry, grape, pear and currant-types, are not affected in the same way by the heat so they produce more consistently.

Two great little tomatoes that absolutely laugh at the heat are Porter and Porter Improved, orginally from the Texas-based and now-defunct Gene Porter & Sons Seed Company. Even in the worst drought years, they produce small tomatoes in spite of weather. I've seen them bloom and set fruit in August when there was no rain for weeks and the temperatures were exceeding 105 daily and the nights were in the 80s. Not many tomatoes can perform in heat like that. I have seed of both Porter and Porter Improved I can send you in the seed swap if you want some.

Dawn

Dawn,
WOW is all I have to say about your knowledge of tomatoes!! I am still a novice when it comes to tomatoes. I have only grown them for 3 years now and to be honest, the 3 years have been awful for them. The rain has pretty much done them in every time!! Anyway, I will take your advice very much so and try to get them out early and then just protect them.
As far as the Porter and Porter Improved seed, I would love some. Should I post on the seed exchange first?
melissa

Melissa,

You might not have been around the forum long enough to know this, but Jay and I both are tomato-obsessed...and there are some others here who are almost as obsessed as we are. I've never counted up all the varieties of tomatoes I've grown over the years, but it would add up to several hundred for me.....and likely more than that for Jay. (Jay, have you kept a variety count?)

I'll put some Porter and Improved Porter seed packets with your name on them in the envelope of 'swap' seeds I'm sending to Carol.

If you'll come up with a list of seeds you want and post it either here in the forum or over on the exchange part of the forum, I bet some of us would have some extra seeds to send you....but you might as well wait and see what you get during the swap.

To plant early, you need raised beds that are raised above the grade by 4-8" because that helps them survive the heavy rains so common here in springtime. You also need to protect them and there are several ways. If you garden on 'flat land' you can use Wall-O-Waters. Unfortunately, I garden on a slope so I can't use WOWs. I protect mine by wrapping the cages in 4 or 6 mm clear plastic, putting 2-liter soda bottles or recycled cat litter jugs full of water beside them to collect heat all day and release it at night to keep them warm, and I will throw a sheet or blanket over the wrapped cages if a late freeze is likely.

I also push the limits of the growing season by planting large tomato plants (purchased in 6" pots in the D-FW metro area) in containers and placing the containers on the concrete patio where they soak up sun and heat. I usually plant them as soon as I find them in the stores....about the 2nd or 3rd week in Feb. Those 4 to 6 early plants usually give me ripe tomatoes in mid-April if I find them in bloom in mid-Feb. and if I remember to drag them into the garage on nights the temps are dropping below 40 degrees or so. The early tomatoes in containers keep me happy until my in-ground plants start producing ripe tomatoes, which can be any time from mid-May to mid-June depending on what the weather has done. The reason I buy my first 4 to 6 early tomato plants is because I'd have to start seed in November to get my own plants large enough to bloom by mid-Feb. and in November, I'm stilll usually busy with the current garden and the holidays and I'm just not ready to start seeds at that point.

The most plants I've ever planted in one year was just over 400 plants, but that was before the deer found us and I had lots of plants outside the fenced-in garden. Most years now, since the deer found the garden and I can only plant inside the fenced area now, I only have about 100 plants, so I'm experimenting less each year. Really, 400 plants was too many, but I had plenty of friends, family and acquaintances who were always willing to take those excess tomatoes off my hands---although I literally spent an entire day picking tomatoes at least a couple of times a week. I always say you cannot have too many tomatoes, but for us anything more than 100 plants really is too many tomatoes. On the other hand, 'too many tomatoes' is a nice problem to have.

Dawn

Like Dawn stated you really need to give a variety more than one season although I don't many times. She covered several varieties. I will give a few opinions of mine before I share a few I really like. First what does well in my garden may not in yours or Dawn's. Hearts don't do well here for me and I know several others that have had similar results trying to grow hearts. Taste is unique to each of us so what I like you may not. Also soil and weather conditions are big factors in the taste. Small to mid sized tomatoes overall will set and produce better than the large ones. There are a few exceptions. I look at is like this. Would I rather have 50-60 4-8 ouncers or 2-8 larger ones. Lucky Cross in the only one I grow for that 1-2 fruit. And why I'm cutting back on the Brandywine types. Brandyboy F1 is the only one I've found that does well consistently of the Brandywines.

Although since I've been on this forum I've found many times that Dawn and I have experienced the same results with a variety there are exceptions. And part of that is the climate, conditions and soil. My sand and her clay she has greatly improved.

In additon to the ones she has listed I will add a few. A few I will always grow are Juane Flammee'( my favorite smaller type just bigger than a cherry) , Kellogg's Breakfast( in my top 3 light orange color and temp senistive as to flavor), Cherokee Purple( better than IS and more productive here), Black from Tula does well here as does several of the blacks. I grew one I liked this summer called Mystery Black. Carbon is another. One all around favorite for me is Glick's 18 Mennonite. I've grown it the last 2 years. Seems to have a little early disease problems but when it takes off performs as well as anything. Picked around 85 4-6 ouncers from it and still loaded with green ones when the freeze got it.
For those that are dependable and that I plant most years to have something in case the favorites fail are Moneymaker(just larger than a cherry) and Vintage Wine Striped. Black Cherry is a good cherry. I grew an F1 cherry cross this year that I really like but haven't convinded the breeder to make that cross again. Heinz 1439 set very heavy here and seemed to be disease resistant. Can be sliced and also a good canner type.

As far as hybrids go Goliath has been my standby till this year. Both plants went down. It is also a favorite of many small market growers here. Old Fashoined Goliath and Porterhouse have done well here some years and have good size and flavor. Security and Jetsonic did very weel this year, The first for both. I liked Jetsonic the best. Got the seeds free when I puchased some others and didn't see it listed by them this year. Heartland is another favorite. I have a few more new hybrids to try next year.

Some Dawn mentioned do well here and some are favorites. I tried not to relist them. Just added those she didn't mention. And as soon as I hit the submit button will think of others. There are so many varieties cutting it down to a few is hard. Especially for me. I always have to leave off something I like.

Here our season is just between being long enough for a spring and fall crop and is longer than those north of us who can only grow one. So I plant from mid to later April depending on the spring till at least early to mid June. The earlies many times will slack off or quit when the intense heat and wind hit. The late ones do well from late August till it freezes. So learning and knowing your climate really helps. Having big early plants is one way. I do start some of mine directly in the garden with plastic over the top. I've had mixed success. Two years ago they were by far my best plants. This year wasn't as good. Time will tell. I do start many inside under lights also. I will grow several in cold frames this winter and try that. The garden guru I've learned a lot from does that. And one that Dawn and I knew that used to be on GW used them and put a layer of manure underneath. I'm going to try that also this year. Anyway to get a little head start and have healthy hardened off plants helps. Jay

Jay,

The hearts haven't done well for me at all and I think they just cannot handle our heat. I've only tried a handful of them, and I don't waste time/money/space on them any more.

Melissa,

As Jay pointed out, often the ones that grow and produce well for me also grow and produce well for him, but sometimes we get completely different results from the same variety. So, you have to try different varieties and figure out what works with your soil and your climate.

An example of 'opposite' results is that Kellogg's Breakfast performs great for Jay, but not for me, so I grow Nebraska Wedding instead. He likes Cherokee Purple better than the similar Indian Stripe, while I prefer Indian Stripe to Cherokee Purple. Those are small differences though, and all 4 of the tomatoes I mentioned in this paragraph are great ones, but you do have to try them to see what works for you.

Something Jay and I haven't directly addressed, too, is flavor and taste bud perception. Every single one of us have different taste buds that perceive flavors in different ways, and that is why I might love a certain tomato variety and Jay might simply despise it, or vice versa. So, you just have to play away with different varieties and experiment to discover not only what grows well for you, but what tastes good to you too.

Jay and I and the other experienced gardeners will be here to help you figure out your tomato issues in 2010, so perhaps you'll have better results with a little help from your forum friends.

Jay, Your mention of GoneFishin' brought a smile to my face. I thought about his hot bed and his liberal use of manure not only in it but also in his garden. We all should aspire to be the kind of gardener he was.

Dawn

Melissa, I grow several of those mentioned above, but neither of them mentioned Sungold, which is a gold cherry tomato that does well in this part of the state. It is our favorite tomato and I'll bet your children would love it. I normally like acid tomatoes, and this one is sweet, but it taste as much like fruit as it does a tomato. They were some of my earliest to ripen, and I picked from the same vines this morning and it's mid November. They have been "on ignore" since early September but they just keep going. I had other plants around them which have died or been pulled, but since these were growing up and over some of the other cages, I just left it all. Mesonet says we have been down to 35 but since we haven't had a freeze, they just keep going.