Yes I can.

I know I'm a smart a$$,but I wanted to see if they are still available.You can also order these from rare palm seeds.com,Tobias Spanner said that untill recently all seeds sold as takil are really Naini Tal,they now have a valid source for takil.You need to buy from rare palm seeds in bulk(not to many)and I'm sure if your interested we could find some people on this forum who would be interested,including me.This e-bay seller assures me they are the real deal,maybe T-head could comment on the pic I posted as he may have seen them before, here is the link on ebay,betteer hurry,although he may have more if you contact him as this listing is ending shortly

Here is a link that might be useful: Takil seeds

There was a lot of talk 2 or 3 years ago about all the seeds being sold as takil actually being a form of something else but I got some from ortanique around then and questioned the source and was told they were of true takil parent. They are now about a foot tall in 2 gallon pots. A lot like Washy species, it is really hard to determine any difference in the thrachy's at this age. In fact, the only one that looks different to me than any other thrachy is the latisectus. I'm a big fan of the trachys, especially when it comes to cold hardy fan palms.

BTW Jim, I have bought a large number of seeds from Gunderson and have very good results including a large number of Chilean wines and Emerald Island Giant sabals! 5oo Fotuneis last year. Always fresh and really good percentage of germination. Just FYI! You can trust this guy.

Donray,check out this k.a.pic of a takil demonstrating the
"SFH (Slope Frost Heave) trait, of a vigorously sideways creeping stem, believed to be a adaptation for fast anchorage to a slope were frost heaving could cause fatal root shearing".(from-Palms in Colorado Springs (USDA Zone 5b) These palms rule!

Here is a link that might be useful: S.F.H.

Don,thanks for the info,look at the link I posted for the sfh and see if your takils look anything like these as far as I know the seeds selling as takil are all Naini Tal according to Gibbons,he said there current source for takil has been in the last year.I think out of the country they have been availiable longer,that would be way cool if you have some growing now!Here is a pic of a takil from "weyardsale"on e-bay(which I now know to be Naini Tal) and one I bought last year from collector palms,also a pic of my 2martianus and 3latisectus,2 of the latisectus where damaged from to much sun,but when I moved them to a spot with more shade they put out these nice fat leaves. Would love to see some pics of your takils! Donray
weyardsale naini Tal

Oddly enough, that's exactly what mine have done even though each time I repot I have tried to straighten them in the new pots. My Latisectus have the same feature as yours and yes, they do not like much sun in the early stage. Mine are real pail looking. I'll take some pics this weekend and post them. I have also seen trachy fortunei do the same leaning as takils too. I'll get you some pics of all of them. I have a few Princeps, but these have been extremely difficult and have grown very slow.

In the key to the spicies artical Gibbons and Spanner said that Takils brought over originally probably mixed with fortunei so its possible that many fortunei have some takil "blood".I have a "fortunei"with a big kink in the trunk,can't decide what it wants to be and is very cool looking.I got some new seeds today,check it out-

I am surprised to hear your princeps is a slow grower,my princeps has put out 4-5 new leaves since early spring and is the fastest growing of all my trachys along with a waggie that has also put out 4-5,Naini Tals are the next fastest this year with 4 leaves.I was very surprised to see the princeps grows so fast,what size are yours?Like so many palms the don't seem to take off untill they get a few divided leaves

I was hoping for better pics but it was late in the evening.

The first is a Fortunei, second is Takil.

Latisectus above with a few Sabals up and right.

These are in a group I have in basically full sun and need some grooming and will get it when they're moved inside the greenhouse in a few weeks. No stretched and leggy palms here! Thirsty and hungry maybe!
I didn't get any pics of the princeps because they are in the greenhouse and it was getting dark on me. My seeds of princeps were real fast germinating, but struggled from day one. I only have about 10 survivors out of 100. They only have 3 small strap leaves but seem to be starting to grow now so we'll see. Below is a foliage pic of some more Takils.

I guess I have around 35 of these. I won't part with em until at least 7 gal. or bigger if ever.

Op,I was just going to ask if you would part with a Takil,dang it.I don't blame you a bit though,I would not want to sell any Takils either,(if I had any)I guess I will just have to wait untill my seeds sprout.The takil seeds are different than other trachy seeds I've seen,very gray.I don't know why but I have always favored the Takils,I guess because there is so much mystery surrounding them and their cold hardiness,in all the pics I have seen of takils they seem to have alot of white to the undersides of the leaves,anyway nice collection!Your princeps will pick up some speed when they get a few fan leaves,for sure.One palm I have found to be very difficult to nail down of any size is Manipur,mine died this summer,probably from to much fertilizer,(live and learn)B.T.W.I ordered a T.nova and a Manipur from Ireland,I hope they make it through.Thanks for posting the pics!35!

Is this the article you are referring too? Not too sure about the color, I know princeps are sometimes identified by the lighter underside but not sure about takils being lighter? Also what I meant about selling, I would not want to sell Fortunei at a Takil price, but worse sell a Takil at a Fortunei price. Thinking by the time they get to a 7 gallon pot, hopefully they can be identified as to which species they are true too. Who really knows to which species any of these Trachy's are really true to anymore? Even the experts are asking each other this question. According to the article I mentioned, the leaning is true only to Takil. I wonder about this! Maybe a little cross in all of them especially in the states. Notice the comment about Americans take note? Do other countries think we've mistaken the identity of certain Trachy species?

Here is a link that might be useful: takil

The article I was referring to is (Chapter 4 keys to genera article 1)and the part I was quoteing is-"Could it be that in every T. fortunei that we see now in Europe there is some T. takil ÂbloodÂ? Is the twisted hastula that we occasionally see on some present day T. fortunei, some kind of throw-back?" Heres the link to it: under T.takil

Here is a link that might be useful: Keys to genera

Also Donnie,I think your takils look like the one(s) pictured in the S.F.H.link,trunk and leaf structure are similar and in the last pic of yours you can see some white coloration on the bottom of one of the leaves similar to sfh link photos,just my opinionated unexpert 2 cents on that!

Sorry Jim i did was not going to get involved in the takil debate as in my opinion it is still unresolved. And until there is DNA evidence avaiable we will just never know if 'true' takil has been discovered and circulated.

There was a big debate on the european palm society forum on the topic and Martin Gibbons did get involved at one stage. You will need register (its free) to logon on.

There is a member called Sergio in Italy that has what looks to be a true takil from seed collected from one of the original becari takils from rome university. There are 2 threads, but if you want to log in make sure you have a bit of time on your hands, it may be interesting but its looonnnggg.

There is also another debate rolling as to weither or not manipur is a seperate species and could actually be takil?

Whatever happens i am really pleased with my naini tal as is certainly different from the standard TF IMO. I also have a few 4 leaf seedlings from the Takil in Rome, so that should be interesting.

http://www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?topicid=172

http://www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?page=0amp;topicid=156

I'm thinking discussion more than debate. I can't tell you whether these are pure Takil or something else. I do know I trusted the source and know they were a bit hard to come by and think there is a good possibility they are, but there are also people who are going to say "aint no way" because I have read articles where certain individuals say they had the only true Takil and none were sent to the US.I sent a copy of that article to my supplier and his responce was "these seeds are true takil" disregard what they are saying. I do know they were very limited, so until the jury returns, we have to wait and see. I may have to beef up security! LOL

Donray,you might as well have 35 dinosaurs with the takil situation the way it is,as said before and you can see in the last pics I posted there is so much difference between even two fortunei,I think the first pic looks more like fort and the second,I don't know,I guess I will have to wait untill they get bigger although the shorter one(2nd pic) has a bigger trunk and may be older,also the one in second pic has not started growing leaves that are representitive of where it is growing in the yard now,(its new home)the one in the second pic has.I think what is so cool about these palms is how highly adaptive they are they have those prehistoric qaulities that I enjoy in some plants like pachypodiums,some palms and also in reptiles and some other animals,you have to respect any plant or animal thats been able to adapt and survive so long!But this may all be the coffee talking!LOL
T-head,thanks as always for adding your thoughts,its nice to hear whats going on accross the pond,you guys have been at this with these trachys a lot longer than we have over here and any information you can share is VERY much appreciated!I will definitelly check out the links you posted about takil discussion,Thanks

Just to add a little info to our discussion, the reason some people are saying our seeds sold as Takil were questioned and thought not to be possible in the US. was in part by no other than the publishers and authors of the article posted (link) by Jim. What we had here was one broker claiming another broker was not allowed to or had any privilegde to the real Takil parent. Tobias Spanner(Toby) in association with Gibbons, the founder of who we all know as RPS. Reputable in UK, but without a doubt having issues in the US. Mostly due to poor costumer relations but also on occasions poor quality as well. I have seen Tobias drug out on the carpet and had the crap beat out of him verbally numerous times in another palm discussion forum. I choose to form no opinion and can appreciate the roll both suppliers perform for our growing pleasure, but I will say Joseph of Ortanique has many sources of seed collection, always fresh and dependable and therefor choose his service over RPS. So, in my case, it's one broker saying another broker sold seeds not true to the species. It could be they both got seeds from the same source but wasn't told? Who knows for sure except the collector himself. I seem to remember later on that the palm originally thought to be Takil was actually not Takil and therefor seeds were thought to not be true also. Lots of controversy as Trachyhead said, a lot of other questions added to the issue and today is still left with uncertainty as to what some of us are growing under the Takil name. Just FYI

Here is a link that might be useful: Link of RPS

Just so you know D-ray,your palms look very much like the palms on the webshots link I posted(takil)and the more I read about the subject and see more and more pics,I don't see anything to disprove that your palms are takil.As to the comments about no takil seeds untill 94 or 95 I don't think anyone can say that just because gibbons and spanner don't sell them they aint real.As far as I know the three palms I have now are Naini Tal which to me is very cool!but these seeds were sold originally as takil,one thing is for sure,they are different than my fortunei or anything else I have so it will be fun to see how they turn out,D-ray,they don,t look like yours and they don't look like other fortunei I have seen.I think that no matter what takil or my other palms look like the variability in these palms makes them very exciteing to grow!

Donray, You seem to know more about the politics of the whole issue than i do. I sincerely hope you do have true Takil plants. All i know is that they are much slower and harder to grow than fortunei and are exremily closly related to manipur which is proving to be a pain to get established plants after about 5 years of the seeds being available (i will post a pic soon).My question is why on earth would the US not get takil seeds??!! I know there has been bad press about RPS, and i have had an interesting experience last time i bought seeds from there a few years back, but i don't want to go into that on here. I think they sold the first lot of Takil that we now know as naini tal in good faith, so if Toby is involved in the whole 'US does not have true Takil seeds' thing I will be quite suprised.

T-head,that was an interesting discussion in the euro palm so.forum and I think Martin pretty much said that he was not saying there are no other takil seeds out there and they definitely have taken responsibility for their mislabled seeds and they did catch some compost for it and we now have Naini Tal,which is a very cool palm.I think this whole takil thing is very close to be resolved if thats possible!Did you see the sprouted takil seeds with the offset root?my seeds also have this characteristic,for what thats worth,they do look like the takil seeds,always look forward to your trachy pics, how about the whole family?With any luck I should have Manipur and Nova here by weeks end.Take care

I'm sure you've probably read this article which states the palms in most part being grown in the US. as Takil are actually Wagneranius. What I read was quoted by Gibbons saying it was not possible for any Takils to have made it to the US., not that we were kept from having any. If I remember correctly, it was not possible in his mind for my supplier to have any available, which are the seeds I aquired. Never had any issues with RPS when I have used them. And yes, they did sell those seeds in good faith and did nothing to hide but only admit it was in error.

Here is a link that might be useful: Takil article

The information that is still circulated today is 10+years old,in that time the number of "new spicies" discovered may have doubled.By the time G&S finish their new book we will probably have even more with so many varieties growing so close together and "new"ones being found.One new cross I think is cool is wagxfort I have three of these(as of this summer) and a bunch of seeds,will be an interesting one to watch.The lines continue to blur!

We'll have to start naming them and keep track of birthdays and give each one a number like SS# and everyone who grows one can do a family tree for those they grow! I have been searching for the article I mouthed about, but haven't found it yet. It is possible that I have let my alligator mouth overload my tweety bird a$$ again! I hate it when that happens! My apologies to any and all who may have been offended.(still looking though)

Donray, you are absolutely right, there was an article by Gibbons some years ago (i remember reading about it too on another US based forum). I can't see why you have offended anyone.

Jim, wagXfort is a really nice cross, i have a friend down on the south coast who has one with a 5ft trunk and he wants get rid of it!!!!! It basically looks like a waggie with fort size stiff leaves.

That is very cool T-head,I would love to see that!I have three I bought last year not quite grasping at that time just how neat these are,one of them went through the last winter with my "fortunei"the leaves are well divided now and these are really nice looking palms.I know where you guys can get some if your interested.
Donray, not sure I recall what article your referring to?you mean where they cought some flack for the Naini Tal situal?I hear you can get yout takils certified by....not going there!how about the U.S.goverment,we can trust them right?

Dang, I knew someone would mention government! I am having a very difficult time with this Bail Out plan that I have set the article hunt aside. This is off topic I know and yes it does relate to politics, but not a specific party so I'm going with it here! Not sure how many of you are following this new Bail out plan, but here's one for us all.

OK.....here's a plan I could live with.

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend. To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife team has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And, of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ('vote buy') economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up. Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can 'never work.' But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, my plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

So with this plan we can get all of these we want! Get in on this one Jim, the check will soon be on the way! Read the part where the seller says "amoung other plants my husbands first love is the palm" So what, she's going to sell it? !!! Sounds like something my wife would do!

Here is a link that might be useful: Takil or something like it

In responce to your earlier post all I can say is,Donray for president!B.T.W.I did not say government I said goverment-haha
That link you posted(don't know if your aware of it) is the one I mentioned earlier,where I bought my 2 Naini Tal.
I checked with rps and Spanner told me that the seeds for these were Naini Tal,so not takil but happy to know what they are,Naini Tal is a great palm.I have told weyardsale that they should change there listing but well you know how slow people are to come around to the truth and you can't make them,usually,anyhow since we probably won't see any of that money does this mean you might sell one of your takils?Had to ask-LOL

I may, just for you, but understand they won't come with a certificate! LOL As far as politics, I'm too poor and honest for that line of work. I actually got the Bailout from another source but bought into it and thought it was actually a very good idea!(See, honesty) Surprised it wasn't pulled.

I don't think it would work,in a situation like that the prices go up on everything its one of those things that can't be regulated because its self regulating.I would like to see some more pics of those takils when you get a chance,with better lighting,some of that creeping trunk,the growth point and from above,from all the pics I've studied of takils they very much look like the real deal.One thing that needs to happen for those to sell at their real value,(not that your selling)is that people need to really understand how rare they are,some would say there is no such palm,now thats rare!

Ok I'll get some for you. They're kinda like some of my old girlfriends, they look much better in the dark!I was wanting to show a couple trachy nerds on another forum and seek their opinion too anyway. Cheap camera creates poor pics., I'll see what I can do.

Donnie,look forward to pics!

Uh we have a math problem. 85 billion divided by 200 million is just $425 per person (not $425,000). sorry but you will need a Plan B.

Uh, you are correct. I copied and pasted it, but didn't worry enough about it to do the math. It was meant as a laugh only. Obviously too many zeros for the author, yet a small number compared to the $700,000,000,000.00 plan our gov has working.

Uh,does this mean I am not getting my check?I guess I have alot of palms to return,but when don't I?

I'm sorry Jim, I was hoping to brief you in time! But it's obviously OK to spend money you don't have.

Good news,I will keep everything!and now that I'm out of money what else is there to do but buy more palms!I wonder where I could get a takil?

maybe you could contact your senator and see if he would co-sponsor a provision in the rescue bill for "several trunking trachycarpus takils" for jimhardy in Iowa. It seems like most everyhting else in there.

Thanks guys I have it covered,a friend of mine is going to dig up that nice one in Rome that is all the rage, is now a good time to plant in zone 5b?

Jim, now is the perfect time to plant a 100 year old 50ft takil ;-)

T-head,please don't tell them I said that!I mean just in case it suddenly came up missing!

Jim, a few more pics. I tried not to show any background so as to not give away any location of stash! LOL These are different plants to show consistency of features.

Nice one Donray, they look just the same as my naini tal of the same age. Really healthy looking plants too. Do all of yours have the 'creeping' habit?

Thanks T-head. I think I may have mentioned earlier, these were repotted not long ago and at the time I was unaware of why these were growing this way and tried very hard to straighten them when repotted.(unaware of the habit) It was really obvious prior to that and made me think something was wrong, so I repotted and relocated. But almost all have done gone back to the "creeping" already, but kind of starting to add some height now.

Nice pics donnie,I have to admit your last pic does look more like naini tal but who knows?
I think I can lift a thumb print from pic 3 so thanks for that!(if they do turn out to be takil)
Your second to last pic makes it look like minitures-LOL,a good example of our shrinking dollar.
Thanks for posting the pics-

Hey,so,my filibustas are coming up as of a week ago,just thought I would post a pic in case anyones interested,sorry about the picture qaulity

Nice one Jim, no matter how many times you do it, sprouting palm seeds is always exciting!

Look more like filiferas to me! LOL

You got me Donnie!these are takil(the real ones)like yours!LOLLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL