confused about captain jacks dead bug brew

13 years ago

I'm having a hard time understanding this and was hoping someone somewhere could explain it to me. How is it that Captain Jacks Dead Bug Brew can be effective in killing spider mites and thrips but not aphids? Don't all three of those pests use some kind of sucking mechanism on the plants? I've read that the bugs are killed when they ingest the leaves, but I've also heard they they are killed on contact. This doesn't make sense to me b/c then how would it be effective in killing caterpillars?

I must be missing something but I can't wrap my brain around it and well I'd really like it to work against aphids until I get my beneficials built up.

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Comments (7)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
13 years ago
I'm having a hard time understanding this

Perhaps if you can tell us what criteria you use to choose to believe marketing text, we can explain marketing text.

Dan
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
13 years ago
Cap'n Jack's active ingredient is Spinosad. Its mode of action requires ingestion, meaning chewing and munching. Piercing/sucking insects aren't much affected. I'd opt for not using this product if control of aphids is your aim. They don't ingest leaves, they suck plant juices (sap). Spinosad is not absorbed into the vascular system, therefore can't infect insects that feed that way. Or at least, the control will be extremely haphazard.

That's why aphids aren't listed on the label. The manufacturers don't want complaints or lawsuits related to the ineffectiveness of their product.

Do a bit of reading up on Spinosad and you'll understand more than what I've tried to explain.
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This product active ingredient is "spinosad". How it works is when bugs bite the leaves which you have sprayed, it kills them. So "generally" it won't kill beneficial bugs - unless you spray something and within 3 hours a beneficial bug (such as a bee) visits the plant before it dries. Anyway - so "directly" it won't kill the cabbage butterflies, as they don't munch on the leaves - their larva do (the little green worms). The larva will be killed by the spinosad very quickly - at the very least over night. And eventually, the butterfly population will start to disappear, as you are killing all of the larva. Hope that helps explain things a bit.
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If what you have is the Cabbage Looper or Imported cabbage Worm then a Spinosad product or a Bacillus thuringiensis - Kurstaki product can aid you in control, if that is needed. Spinosad is probably less desireable because it is known to be toxic to bees and other beneficials, when still wet. The BTK is availabloe as Dipel, Thuricide, Foray, and several other brand names. Both are quite safe for humans and can be easily washed off any produce they may be on. The Insecticidal Soap mixture that bleached your plants leaves most likely was too strong a mixture, 1 teaspoon of soap per quart of water is all that is needed, and spraying should not be done after about 9:00 AM or before 6:00 PM.
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Thank you everyone for the excellent feedback. I will spend lots of time studying the UF bug identification pages. And thank you for the encouragement Silvia. I didn't let my initial foray into vegetable gardening daunt me too much. I chalked it up to learning and even got 12 pints of roasted habanero salsa, a few pounds of sun-dried (dehydrator, LOL) tomatoes, a few quarts of pickles and a few pints of hot pickled okra before the whole thing crashed and burned. I read as much as I can as often as I can and try not to bug people with too many questions. I was the person in college and grad school who everyone hated because I was always waving my arm wanting to know how and why. So this morning I had a Hitchcock moment. Every morning I walk through the yard and carefully inspect everything. I noticed lacy leaves all of the way down on the bottom of some tomato plants. I can't bear to throw a seedling away when I thin, so after everything got potted I had about 12 plants left. I stuck them in the new in-ground veggie bed I put along the back of the house. I plucked a leaf off and turned it over. It was CRAWLING with dozens of almost microscopic worms/caterpillars. Like I said, I'm Mrs. Magoo even after implant surgery. I could see they were greenish and had some kind of stripe. They were so small that I didn't think I could squash them with my foot or roll the leaf up and squeeze them. I ran to the bird bath and shoved the leaf under water. Then I went back and carefully combed the bottoms of all of the plants. I found 5 or 6 more leaves like that and drowned them too. Now I'm curious about whether moths lay dozens of tiny eggs at a time or if the eggs hatch multiple caterpillars? It's time for another Bt spray anyway. I try to do it after irrigation nights. Today is dark and overcast and looks like rain so I may have to wait until tomorrow. I figured I'd let the babies drown good and proper and then change the water in the bird bath later. I should have taken a picture but my phone was in the house. I should throw them in a jar with mesh over the top and add a few leaves to see what they turn into after a bit. Snakes, worms and caterpillars gross me out so badly!
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Vkay, don't forget that labels cannot list every single insect that may (or may not) be controlled by the product. The product you've mentioned (which I have never used), is designed to help control those insects that FEED ON VEGETABLE MATTER. That's a zillion or so different kinds of insects....can't list 'em all! I promise you that Cucumber beetles would be on the 'long list' of pest insects controlled by this product. Spinosad has shown to be 'relatively' safe in regards to predaceous insects, including beneficial beetles. It needs to be ingested by the insect in order for it to be wholly effective. Though it does have some contact killing action, it is far less than if it is ingested. Again, it's a product that when used with good sense, and according to label directions, can be a helpful tool in integrated pest management. I would never use such a product freely or widely, or as a prophylactic. Spray it only where the pest is directly feeding or you know that they will be feeding over a very few days. I've used products containing this active ingredient for two purposes. I've purchased a fire ant bait containing spinosad and was quite pleased with the results. I also used a spray to control a very heavy visit by some wicked japanese beetles on a young Allee Elm planted in our front yard. Between the birds and the Spinosad, the beetles didn't have a chance.
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Kimmsr
13 years ago
If any product with Spinosad as the active ingrediant is being looked at for use be aware this stuff is known to be highly toxic to bees and many forms of aquatic life with a lower level of toxicity to birds, but enough toxicity to be of concern.
djhnd
7 years ago
"Highly toxic" is hyperbole. Aquatic life and birds is also an overstatement. Spinosad degrades rapidly in soil. It is toxic to bees if sprayed while they are foraging: so, in the middle of the day, onto/near flowers. Applied to leaves, evening or early morning, it has little to no effect on bees.

Depending where you are in the country, you might decide you want zero impact on honeybees, as east coast populations have been decimated by mites and who knows what else. In the part of California I'm in, they are vigorous, in little danger, and I'm comfortable applying spinosad to leaves at times they aren't active.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15366583

"Spinosad is practically non-toxic to slightly toxic to birds, based on studies with bobwhite quail and mallard ducks. " http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/spinosadgen.html

Dow agrosciences of all companies has a comprehensive PDF on many studies of this. Simply, don't spray on flowering plants during the day.
Anthony Bassilakis
4 years ago
I have two containers of adult Mexican beetles and their larve. One i spayed with Capt Jacks. 4 hours later they are all alive? I don't think this product works?
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
4 years ago
Doesn't sound like you are using the product correctly. For the product to be effective, the insect pests must ingest treated foliage. You cannot just spray them directly and hope it will work.
Anthony Bassilakis
4 years ago
I had applied at least 2 to 3 times. Then I starting to manually remove. Yesterday I caputured about 4 adults and 15 larve.

confused about captain jacks dead bug brew

Comments (7)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

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Kimmsr

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