First frost date mid october count backwards, recommend plant dates 7/20-8/20 . Could you do them in a wave or two
a 10 days a apart ?

Kaity,

In all honesty, I am not so sure your results with a fall planting will be any more successful than your spring planting this year, so I encourage you to think about how a fall planting is likely to perform if the weather for the next 6 to 8 weeks continues along in basically the same pattern we've had for the last 6 weeks or so.

The OSU-recommended planting dates for snap beans for the fall garden are:

Pole Beans July 15th - July 30th
Bush Beans Aug 10th - Aug 20th

To use these dates as OSU intended, you should know that the earlier dates are for folks in northern OK in the fall, and the later dates are for folks in southern OK in the fall. (In the spring it is the exact opposite.)

Consider too that research has shown that every type of seed has soil temperatures at which it will or won't germinate well. With beans, the best soil temperature for them is 77 degrees. At that temperature, 97% of your bean seeds will germinate and they'll do so in an average of 8 days. If your soil temperature is 86 degrees, you'll get slightly faster germination--just 6 days, but only 47% of your bean seed will germinate. And, if your soil is a toasty 95 degrees, you'll get germination in 6 days as well, but only 39% of your seeds will germinate. If your soil temperature is 104 degrees or hotter, you'll get 0% germination.

You can figure out your average soil temperature by using a thermometer with a probe (like a standard kitcen meat thermometer). Take the temperature of bare soil during midafternoon when temps are highest and take it about 2" below grade level. Record your soil's temperature for 3 to 5 days and average together the results. If the soil temp is higher than is ideal, you might want to find some way to increase your seed's chance of germinating, like germinating them inside in damp paper towels, for example, and then planting them out into the ground as soon as they sprout in the paper towel. Or, you could plant them in the ground and temporarily shade the ground with sheets or shade cloth to help keep it cooler, which could help give you better germination. If you are planting them in the ground into soil that is pretty hot, you need to plant more seeds than usual to make up for the significantly lower germination rates.

Are you seeing many grasshoppers in your area? Grasshoppers love to eat bean plants, especially in July and August when there's not a lot of green around. You may need to protect your young bean plants from the grasshoppers. The grasshoppers this year are bad here where I live, but not as bad as they were last year when they stripped all my bean plants down to naked stalks in July and August.

Finally, green beans grow and produce best when air temperatures are in the 70s, so since those air temps are a long way off, especially in this hotter-than-average year, try to time your plantings so your plants will be blooming when temps are in the 70s. Accomplishing this is always tricky with fall beans, and I expect it will be trickier than usual this year. You might look at your soil temps, look at your OSU-recommended dates, and choose to plant a week later than OSU says in order to let the air cool down a little more. The problem with waiting a little bit is that you have that inevitable first frost looming in mid-autumn.

I'm not saying "don't plant beans" but rather consider all the factors that go into getting a successful stand of beans and decide if it is worth it. If you choose to plant them, you're going to have to work really hard to offset the negative effects of this year's terrible heat and drought conditions.

I'm going to link one of the soil temperature maps from the OK Mesonet for you. You can look at the average soil temps in your area and it will give you some idea of what to expect in your own garden.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Bare Soil Temp at 2

I got no green beans this year. I think I'm just going to take my insta-thermometer out this fall and start taking the temperature until I get close to 77 degrees. Plant when I'm near that. My first frost date is so erratic. Anywhere from October 31-Jan 1. Who can go off of that?

Tracy,

I know that first frost dates can be crazy in our climate and yours may be even crazier. The earliest I've seen a killing frost here is Sept. 29th and the latest I've seen it is about December 18th, but with some regularity it seems to happen around the week before Thanksgiving. So, I more or less base my planting around a frost date near Thanksgiving, and I can cover stuff up with Agri-bon if it gets too cold too early.

I had a good early bean crop (and I planted as early as I reasonably could, which helped a lot), but then they gave up once the highs started hitting the hundreds which for us was in about mid-June, or maybe it was early June. It seems so long ago now.

Dawn

Two years ago, we had a frost in mid October. I think last year it was late December.
If I have my tender plants somewhat limited in small areas, I can cover with blankets because usually the early frosts are light and only one or two nights. I can use sheets, cover for a night or two here and there and then be safe. It's not too bad until December, sometimes even January.
I have a few peppers that I keep close to the house and two eggplants that are going on their third year. I blanket them when we get freezes and the heat of the house really helps.
A couple of my gardens have a heavy block wall which retain heat, miserable in the summer but very handy in the winter. The same structures that I use for shade can also be used for blankets. I just keep the blankets and sheets handy, watch weather closely.
I wouldn't push it later than probably December, but I bet I can plant some September pole beans and probably have better luck than I did this spring!

I was thinking about putting in another crop of beans for the fall, but now I really need to stop and consider it. We usually have a freeze by Dec 1st, but the main problem would probably be the grasshoppers, unless I can manage to control them before then.

Has anyone ever used the Garden Blanket (or Garden Quilt) fabric from Gardener's Supply? I've used it to raise temperatures and protect new plants from winter damage, but it is also said that it can be used as a row cover to keep out insects. Rain and light do go through it, and it weighs next to nothing at all. However, if I tried using it to keep out the hoppers, then I'd just be jacking the soil temp up even further, wouldn't I? Drat!! Maybe use it to start a slightly earlier spring crop next year??

Pat

Pat- for row cover to protect from insects, just start out using a light tulle or sheer curtain fabric. You may even be able to pick some up from Goodwill. I was so disappointed, we had a house fire last year, and when they pulled our curtains to clean, we had them replaced. Instead of returning them, they discarded them. In the craziness of living in an RV for almost seven months and moving 600 boxes back into the house, I somehow forgot about asking them for my sheer curtains to use as row covers. Duh!
I don't use row covers that often because my main insects, besides squash bugs, are aphids, which are worse with row covers.
When you get closer to frost, I use sheets for light frosts, blankets or cardboard for heavy frost. If it is a plant that I can get a box over, I will keep a cardboard box handy and the box is good to about twenty degrees, even better if you can put a small light inside.
I get used U-Haul boxes from my step-daughter, who is a manager at UHaul. Two big boxes stacked per eggplant or pepper, an some folded boxes over plants like lettuces work great. I would think they could be made to work for a bean pole, as well. If not, I would use old, soft blankets. Be sure to uncover, if possible, during the day.
If you can plant near the house or a structure, some heat will be retained, which give you quite a few degrees with light frosts, as well, and doesn't seem to matter too much when planting in the heat.
I will sometimes use aluminum foil mulch and Christmas lights to increase heat and light on my eggplants, peppers and tomatoes in December and January if they are still trying to bloom.

Pat,

I belive that GS's garden quilt blocks 40% of the light, so with only 60% of the regular light getting through to the plants, they should stay cooler.

I like row covers and use them a lot, but mostly for frost protection. I have some of the Agri-bon heavy-duty frost blanket type, and some of the more lightweight insect protection type. I've been happy with both of them and find they do what they're supposed to do. The biggest challenge with using them here is the wind. I find it hard at times to keep them where I want them on very windy days.

With grasshoppers, you really have to watch them because if they are hungy enough, they'll chew through row covers, cotton sheets and fiberglass window screen material.

Dawn

Kaity,

I probably garden a long way from you.

However, I planted 14 row feet of Festina bush snap beans (and they are our favorite) on July 13 and I'm pretty sure I will have a stand by morning.

They are in the two rows following the potatoes and the soil was still moist and easily workable. I planted deeper than I would've in the spring and I soaked the rows all night after planting with a soaker hose and then soaked them again for about three hours yesterday afternoon in order to keep the soil cool (Yesterday's soil temps at 2", bare ground at the nearest mesonet station ranged from 81 to 101.). My water comes out of the Ogalalla Aquifer at about 55-60 degrees and the lines are buried more than 3 feet down.

Anyway, if you are going to do this, I second Dawn's advice on cooling the seedbed in some manner.

I don't know what fall is like where you are, but here it usually gets chilly by mid-September and a lot of warm-weather crops quit producing or produce tough or otherwise low quality produce after that. Beans in particular seem to be prone to rust and toughness after mid-September here. Again, I don't know anything about fall vegetable production in your area. However, cooling the soil is essential to get beans going under these conditions of high heat.

I also planted 30 row feet of French Horticultural Beans today behind the garlic and multiplier onions. Maybe we'll have a few meals of shellies in late September/October.

Tom

Kaity,

You and I have the same conditions and I have planted mid July and gotten a good crop in the past, but this year is not like any other I have experienced here. It is so dry this year, in addition to this horrible heat. Some years I only have to water 3 times total (except containers), but this year I have had to water every 2-3 days. Even then, it dries very quickly. I have empty spaces in my garden because I just couldn't decide what to plant that wouldn't just be a fight to keep alive. I am changing the way I plant next year to make it easier to water, in the event we have another year like this one, and grouping my tomatoes together more so that I can provide shade.

If you are willing to gamble on the outcome then I say, why not? If you are the type gardener that expects to plant and forget until harvest time, then I don't think it will work. I encouraged Chandra to try additional beans but he is planting in raised beds in his back yard and his family seems to be very conscientious about the care it receives. I, on the other hand, not so much. I am very good in the spring and early summer, but when the heat comes, I become less willing to spend hours in the garden. I don't even enjoy the hand watering that I have to do. Most things are now on soaker hoses and it is midnight, but I have water running.

So I guess my answer is this. If you are willing to cool the ground, water frequently, and take a big chance, then you probably should plant. I will just be doing what I can to keep what I have already planted watered and producing. I have spring planted pole beans that still are not producing.

I have a squash plant that has probably had 40 male blooms and made one squash. I repeat, it is a strange year.
Tess's Land Race which is normally a huge tomato plant (with tiny fruit) is not big and full like normal. I have noted that my healthiest looking tomato plants are those that get afternoon sun, and some that were planted late after the huge rains had ended.

That sounds like I'm saying to plant later in Spring, but I am not. Most years the fruit set that happens in the cool weather loads the vines down and produces heavy summer fruit. This year there was such a short time between the cool spring weather, and the hot, hot, summer that heavy fruit set just didn't occur in my garden. At my house that period in between brought eight and a half inces of rain in just a few days and it didn't dry up for weeks. Any one of those three things, late planting, too much rain, or early heat could have hurt the garden, but we had all three this year.

My tomato production is way, way low this year. We are getting all we can eat (at most every meal), and today I took a little salsa kit (onion, bell pepper, jalapeno, and tomatoes to a friend, but usually I am getting large amounts of produce this time of year. I am grateful that I still have canned salsa from last year because I wonder how much I will be able to do this year. I have lots of peppers and they are all doing fine tho.

My cantaloupe never produce early so I wait 'not so patiently' every year while everyone on the forum tells me how good theirs are. I don't have a lot of vines, but so far they seem to be doing OK. I can see a lot of fruit that are about 2/3 to 3/4 normal size, but still green and growing. In fact, I saw one tonight that needs a sling before it gets any heavier.

I am usually proud of the way my garden looks, but this year I wish I had a sign on the gate that said, "This is a grow place, not a show place", because it is one ugly garden. As Dawn always says, "There is always next year".

Thank you all for the Advice..

I have seeds left over from this spring. and i keep thinking it will be worth the gamble. all the info on soil temp has been So usefull. I just had such big plans on green beans this year and thanks to the weather the vines were loaded and i was watering BUT the beans had no flavor and were Super tough. i had great harvests then 4th of July week they just shut down.. plants turned brown and that was it.. i tried canning a few and it wasent worth it.

My tomatoes are producing BUT they are Small and what bloomed early. even though i am watering every other day and fertilizing about every 7 days after a fewhours you cant even tell i watered.. and im watering deep and watering at night..

my Ocra is looking ok.. BUT it is in the center of the garden so i really having to baby it an it is not very tall.

i have gotten 1 squash off of 12 plants... the rest of the squash get about as big as my finger then just turn brown..

Just a weird year.. i have Mulched a few areas to keep the ground cool around those plants and that is working. tonight i am going to start putting manure around my tomato plants when i clean stalls then cover that in straw in hopes that when i water it will retain a little more moisture? thoughts?

I have the ability to baby the green beans IF i replant But cooling the ground will be my challenge i think. how to do that with 100ft rows and not burn up my well might be a challenege...

Please let me know any more advice you have!

Kaity