Gosh, you could apply that bit of reasoning to anything. Even water in sufficient dosage will kill various organisms (even humans if they consume in sufficient quantity), as will table salt, vinegar, dish soap and caffeine. And all beneficial insects. But no one refers to them as poisons. The term 'poison' implies a toxin with severe implications and is a misleading concept to promote on an organic gardening forum with regards to a fully approved organic pest control. If you are going to throw words around, let's at least use the correct terminology - it is a biopesticide that has limited toxic properties. btw, your misunderstanding of the properties of neem oil could use a bit correcting. Neem oil is a broad spectrum pesticide, but then so is insecticidal soap or horticultural oil, but none of them are entirely non-selective. And if you study the product, neem oil has a great many more benefits than what you narrowly allude to.

Research showing bees are hooked on nicotine ... "Even worse, we now have evidence that bees prefer to eat pesticide-contaminated food. Neonicotinoids target the same mechanisms in the bee brain that are affected by nicotine in the human brain. The fact that bees show a preference for food containing neonicotinoids is concerning as it suggests that like nicotine, neonicotinoids may act like a drug to make foods containing these substances more rewarding. "If foraging bees prefer to collect nectar containing neonicotinoids, this could have a knock-on negative impact on whole colonies and on bee populations."

Hmmm... interesting hypotheses. I applaud your inquisitive mind. It is nice to know people,even those that may not be directly involved with keeping bees, are aware of some of the problems we are facing, and further more, realize that what it now our problem will soon become everyone's problem. The honey bee is an amazing insect and so very important and yet often taken for granted. The problems many beekeepers are having with CCD (Colony Collapse Disorder) especially is alarming, how can we solve a problem without discovering how or why it exists? Your idea that how we use smoke on our honey bees is thought provoking and a good observation. Certainly just as valid as most ideas I have heard on why CCD is happening. Cell phone? Smoke? Field Chemicals? All are valid ideas that should be looked into. I would like to point out a few things that have not been commented on however, by the bee keeper you have been debating with. Smoke calms bees by not only masking the pheromones but also by triggering a bee response to smoke; smoke causes honey bees to fill their stomachs up with honey (perhaps thinking their hive is burning?) And makes it impossible for the bee to sting. After a bees stomach is full in can not flex its abdomen into position to inject its stinger. It saves a lot of bee lives and keeps the keeper a bit safer as well. I know that doesn't change your point or anything, I just felt it should be more fully explained. I suppose the largest fault with your theory though, is the fact that a honey bees life is so short that the toxins in the smoke really wouldn't cause that much damage. A honey bee will most likely only inhale smoke one of two time in its entire life (roughly 40 days long) It makes it much harder to compare with a chain smoker that would inhale billions of times the amount and on daily basis. That being said, I do appreciate your curiosity and commitment, both to beekeepers and the world at large on this issue. Smoke certainly not seem a thing good for honey bees, anyone or anything, and it may turn out this over looked practice of mine and my fellow beekeepers has more of an impact than we realize. I don't personally think it is the answer to all of our problems but maybe it will at least give us insight into some of them. Smoking bees definitely deserves research, both for the good it does and the harm it may cause. I personally only use smoke when I know a lot of bees will kill themselves stinging me if I don't, but I hate to use it even then...it's just seems it helps them more to be smoked and live than to sting my and kill themselves though. Certainly,logical alternatives would be nice instead smoking bees. No nicotine patches made small enough to fit them yet, but maybe the gum would work? :) Cheers! -Matthias

That's actually a very good question as it strikes at the heart of "organic" vs factory farming. IMHO, organic gardening is more labor intensive and much safer for you and the environment. Visit your local Grocery Store and you'll see the produce department filled with gorgeous veggies. The ones labeled organic will cost more than the factory farmed ones. Also, since the consumer now wants Strawberries in February, etc. A large majority are shipped in from Mexico, Central and South America. Think they don't use various and sundry chemicals? I own a farm, though not doing much with it anymore as I'm retired, am very familiar with the various chemical cocktails Bayer, etc. woo farmers with. If you want to be comfy with chemicals, consider this, Chemicals are very expensive, farmers use the minimal amount to achieve the desired level of control. Contrast that to the "urbanite" who buys something at the local garden center, breaks out the gallon pump up sprayer, probably doesn't read the instructions e.g. "1/2-1 tsp. per gallon of water and proceeds to put in a few "glugs." Hey, this is America, more has gotta be better-right? Guess what, it controls the problem. If you want to use chemicals, READ the instuctions and err on the low side of the application rate. If the instructions say "damp or moisten" DON"T drown the plant! Yeah, more is better. Put another way, At some point you've probably had your M.D. proscribe something and got the explanation that "Drugs aren't good for you, however, we evaluate the "desired result vs the bad result" and you should take this. Words to that..... With the evolution of the Colorado Potato Beetle's resistance to anything else, if you buy potatoes, they've been treated with a systemic. To really understand what a systemic is, consider this: A trench or furrow is dug in your garden, potatoes are placed in it, a systemic is sprayed down the row, "annointing" both seed potatoes and the soil between, row is covered. As the potato grows, it absorbs this, a beetle comes along and proceeds to dine on the plant and dies. One treatment, good for the entire season. So the chemical is spread thoughout the plant, including the potatoes you harvest. BTW, it also stays in the soil, successive planting over succesive years the level increases. A pollinator wanders in and takes nectar from a bloom.....:-( As I said earlier, Organic is more labor intensive and is better for the environment and you. However, with the world population increasing and insects continuing to develop resistance to controls available, more and stronger controls are continually being developed in order to provide enough food. I'm not going anywhere with this particuarly, just wanted folks to understand what systemic means and if you choose to go that route, understand what you're doing and exhaust mechanical means as described above, sprays, pinching, barriers, etc. before chemicals are used. Be well,