Ezzirah,

I have no idea what is going on with your seeds from Johnny's, but it is absolutely the opposite of my experience with them. Johnny's sells seed aimed at market growers and those market growers, whose livelihood/income depends on their ability to successfully growand market their crops, do not tolerate poor germination.

I've purchased seed from Johnny's since at least 1986, although not necessarily every year, and they always grow just fine for me. In fact, the tomato seeds I purchased from Johnny's this year (Tomatoberry, among others) germinated in about 30 hours from the time I opened the seed packet and put the seeds into the sterile soilless mix in the starter flat

Johnny's has been around a very long time and has an impeccable reputation for quality. The only 'negative' mark on their record is that one year someone hacked into their billing/payment system and stole customers' credit card numbers, but they certainly are not the only folks to whom that has occurred.

I do have some ideas though. If you are trying to sprout seeds outside at this time of year, soil temperatures may be a problem, and air temperatures may too. If you are trying to sprout seeds in clay soil, that can be a huge problem in the middle of summer.

So, how about if you tell us what seeds you're trying to start, and we'll tell you if we think the temperatures might be an issue with them. And, are they not germinating at all? Or do they germinate and die? There has to be some logical explanation for why you're having trouble with them, and with all of us working on it together, maybe we can figure out what is going on.

Dawn

Ezzirah,
Johnny's has a good reputation and some nice seeds. I haven't placed an order with them since the credit card fiasco. The part I didn't like about it was for some of us it was close to 2 weeks later before we received a notice from them By this time most of us had read it on the forums. And although some say the numbers were ever used I can say at least one was. I seriously considered ordering seeds from them last fall. I've always said the only way I would ever order again would be to send a check. I can't convince myself to order online and use a credit card.

Sometimes we never find an answer for germination troubles and other plant issues. It is odd that the plants from the other sources are performing ok. Like Dawn I would be interested to know more about what you planted and your garden conditions. Jay

I haven't used Johnny's for a few years, but when I do, I am always pleased with the quality and service. When you read the planting info, you need to consider that their climate is very different from ours tho.

I use my cc online all the time. Several times my card # has been stolen, but the cc companies are always right on top of fraudulent charges and contact me with weird or out of area transactions right away.

Jo

From them I have attempted to sprout pepper plants. I used a temperature regulated heat mat, the peat pellets that go in the burpee flats. They sprouted ok, but they are smaller than the transplants I bought, and the burpee carnival mix I sprouted the same way at the same time. I started prairie fire and sangria pepper, and apple pepper plants. The cut celery I started just got about an inch big and died. (started the same way) I have not started the onion seed yet, so I don't know about that.

I guess they grew, but they are smaller than the others and are not producing like the others. ((shrug))

Ezzirah,

Peat pellets are not the best way to start seeds. That could be the problem. People who use them tend to have many problems, including slow growth and nutritional deficiencies, and that is especially true of newer gardeners who are still learning how each type of vegetable best germinates and grows and what it needs in order to do well. (Peat is a 'dead' material, so it has no biological activity and no nutrition.) Many people who use peat pellets lose their plants to damping off because peat holds on to moisture a long time which contributes to various damping off fungi that kill seedlings, and then if peat gets dry, it is hard to rewet. You'll likely have more success with seed-starting if you use a sterile, soilless seed-starting mix.

With peppers, you cannot compare two different varieties to one another because some pepper plants get big early and others get big late and some never get very big. If you were growing the exact same variety side by side from two different vendors, and the seed was fresh and packed for the current year, that would be a more valid comparison. I started about 20 varieties of peppers, including hot, sweet and ornamental varieties, from seed this year and every vaqriety has its own rate of growth and no two are just alike. Some of my smallest plants that seemed 'behind' the others as young transplants are now the tallest and best-performing plants, so you can't judge by their early size and growth. You judge them by how they grow and produce once they are transplanted and growing in the garden, not by how they perform as tiny seedlings. The recommended transplant date for fall peppers is July 15th, which is next week. I don't know when you started your peppers, but in order to them to be large enough to survive being transplanted in mid-summer head and grow well and produce, they need to be a minimum of 6 to 8 weeks old when set out. One reason that is especially important with summer plantings is that the pepper transplants need a large enough root system that they can survive a hot, dry day.

Celery is incredibly hard to grow in our climate and is a cool season crop. Temperatures above 90 push it into dormancy. It is hard to germinate and dies easily. You germinate it at 60 to 70 degrees, then move it to a cooler location with sunlight to grow on for quite a few weeks before it is large enough to transplant. It takes celery 3 to 4 months to reach transplant size and the best time to transplant it is in early summer, so to plant it here, you would have needed to start the seeds in February or the first half of March and then set them out in approx. June. Celery has to mature before temps drop below below 28 degrees in the fall or early winter, but temps over 90 in the summer make it go dormant which disrupts its growth cycle. Oh, and it needs well-drained soil. If celery seedlings or plants get too dry at any time, they stunt or die easily. There's a reason you don't see "celery" on everyone's grow list here in this state. Not many people grow it here because most years our weather is completely wrong for it. Last year's cooler than average, cloudy, rainy, humid summer might have been a good year for celery for anyone with really well-draining soil.

So, I'm not sure there's anything to blame Johnny's for. Peat pellets are notoriously troublesome as we discussed a lot on this forum back in the winter months; with peppers you're comparing apples to oranges; and it is the wrong time of year for celery transplants to grow in addition to it being one of the most finicky vegetable varieties around. I can't see where Johnny's is responsible for any of that. I'm not saying any of the above to be harsh or unkind, but rather to be honest so you'll understand why you might be having problems with your seedlings and blaming Johnny's unfairly. If a seed vendor sends out bad seed, I'd be the first to suggest they were at fault if I thought they were and the first to suggest that they should correct what is wrong. Honestly, though, I don't think Johnny's is at fault in this case. The poor seed companies often get blamed for new gardeners' inexperience and that is not fair.

Gardening is a learning-by-doing process and you'll learn lessons every year, whether is it you first year or your fiftieth. There's just so very many variables and great results are never guaranteed.

Don't let your frustration with starting seeds in the middle of summer ruin the fun of gardening for you. It is all a good experience because you learn something every time.

Dawn

Jay is the only one of us that plants celery that I am aware of, so maybe he needs to teach a class.

Thanks Dawn for the advice. I am not growing celery, like you see in the stores, but "cut celery". It is an herb. Taste like celery, but grows like parsley.

All gardening is a learning experience.

How do you use a heat mat with little cups of jiffy mix? Just set the cups on the mix? what do you use for a lid?

I don't want to start anything. But like Carol says I have grown celery at least 6-7 years after being told all my life I couldn't grow it here. I was at a greenhouse is Amarillo,TX several years ago. Which is 120 miles south of me. I saw they had young celery plants for sale. They had an lady who worked there and I believe was a master gardener and she grew a huge veggie garden. I asked her about it. She said oh yes you can grow it and she did every year. She did say it would need to be where the soil drained well. And suggested I try it where they was shade and also where there wasn't. It did equally well both places. I bought from them for 2-3 years and then starting growing and planting my own. Those plants in full sun gets a darker green. And all of it has a stronger flavor than that you buy at the stores. I think I usually start mine in early March and set out in May as soon as I can. I did start in Feb one year. After I got on the internet I had several tell me that it wouldn't grow here. All I can say is it has for several years. I didn't start any this year but plan to next year. I miss it. I just break off a stalk or two from the outside and it keeps right on producing. I think the variety that has done the best here is Utah (somthing). I mulch around it fairly deep. The stalk is lighter where the mulch is. If anyone was to ever grow it I would suggest to do it as I did. A few plants as an experiment.

I have seen the cutting celery advertised. Supposedly it does better in the heat. I have never grown it. As I've never had any trouble with the real celery. Jay

Eizzirah,

I use tiny 3-oz. bathroom cups, poke several drainage holes in the bottom, line up the cups in a plant flat (if you don't have a flat, substitute one of those flat-bottomed disposable aluminum cooking pans that cost $2.00 or $3.00 in the kitchen section), wet the soil really well. Let the wet soilless mix dry for a day or two (because it takes so much water to moisten it to begin with that it gets very soggy), and then sow your seeds.

When I'm using a seed heat mat, I just place it under the flat. You remove the mat as soon as they first sprouts appear.

Cutting celery generally is easy as long as you don't sow it too deeply, so I'd think the peat pots are the problem.

Carol and Jay, First of all, Jay is quite an accomplished gardener! I think he inherited his mom's green thumb. I think maybe Jay has success because of his very well-draining soil (with celery it is all about the drainage because even though celery needs a lot of moisture, it doesn't do well if the moisture cannot drain well) and lack of excessive moisture and his nights, which often are cooler than ours, likely help too. I don't know why it doesn't stall when the temps hit the 90s though. If a person has clay soil and a lot of moisture plus heat, the heat will stall the plant and it will struggle to survive if in clay soil and hot, humid conditions. I know people who go to extraordinary lengths to raise it but they build tall raised beds, irrigate precisely, have an outstandingly rich soil mix in their tall raised beds, and shade it from all but very early morning sun. Even then, sometimes our heat/humidity here are too much for it.

I'd love to raise celery since commercially-grown celery is so heavily doused with chemicals, but I choose my battles carefully, and decided whatever celery I'd get isn't worth what I'd spend to build a bed for it and then have to nurse it through the heat. All the home-grown celery I've ever seen (and I haven't seen a whole lot) is completely different from commercially-grown celery...it is much darker green and tastier too. I wonder what the commercial growers do to keep theirs light-colored and poorly flavored. Because celery needs a long, cool season and good but not excessive moisture, 90% of the US crop is grown in California and most of the rest is grown in Florida.

I think celery could be raised in very well-draining soil in NE OK, but it still would be very challenging. There's a reason you don't see celery transplants in stores here.....

Dawn

I had planned to try celery this year, but 'life happened', I guess, and I just didn't get everything planted. My friends in Alaska grew it in their garden and it was like described here, darker green with a stronger taste.

I think that the commercial growers put a tube around the stalk part of the plant for the last few weeks to block the sun and cause the plant to become a lighter green.

I am sure that I would have to plant in a raised bed in order to assure good drainage. Even then I think it might be a challenge.