P.S., I suspect that some of the local birds (that, gratefully, are not behaving weirdly) are about to nest in one of my Windmill palms--as it is adjacent to the bird feeder.

Its pretty interesting that all these occurrences are being reported. Its definitely something to watch. Their will be some people who find it as a coincidence, and there will definitely be others that take it as a sign that the world will be coming to a close soon. I find the latter to be pretty extreme and Im sure that this is just nature and how it acts.
So far all the birds and animals are acting normally here despite the 2 weeks of constant snow cover (and 6-14 more inches on the way!!!). Hopefully if anything unusual happens this summer, it will be the unusual above average temperatures!
Good luck!
-Alex

I don't think the world is supposed to be ending,just that one period comes to a close and a new one begins.

That may mean the end for some,like Sarah Palin(-;

Oh no he didn't!

Here is a link that might be useful: Just kidding .....but seriously (-;

LOL @ Jim!!! One of my favorite slogans / bumper stickers I saw was "Vote for Palin 2012 - the world is going to end anyway". LOVE IT!

def not fireworks lol birds died on night of dec 31 2010 all over the world!!!!!!!! 100s of thousands of fish also died!!!! lol fireworks, hail haha the scientist are getting paid off by the government. something is def. going on 100% certain. the world is going through huge changes mayan style- Justin

The world ending. Wow the palm forum is shifting into theology:) There are many signs of the Lord's return, such as faith in Jesus growing cold, the anti-Christmas movement, globalization (One World Order), the World Bank-the cashless society, man's heart growing colder and less love, criminalizing politically incorrect speach,

I heard, that if the magnetic shift occurred we would not be emailing. Electronics and electrical grids would short.

The birds in the USA all died of blunt trama according to the reports. Firework explosions are the only possibility I can see, nevertheless the Bible did not say birds would fall from the sky, but the stars would - sounds more like a disasterous meteor shower to me than birds.

Of course judgment can be avoided by accepting Jesus and following Him:)

I don't have a problem with Jesus,just the people(generally speaking of course,who follow their version of him),to me it's about following truth,Jesus means to many things too to many people and that's fine until we tell others what they should believe.

If we are going to lose the internet because of a pole shift,as well as other forms of technology-I am all for it!

Let's enjoy each other why we can.

Greg

I have had to many of these so called Christians come to my door,wanting to tell me,not discuss with me what Jesus is,they are mostly idiots,robots that do what their told,so be it,if they knew how to use their minds they would.

Anyway,interesting times we live in.

One final note Greg,I think people are more interested in Jesus(TRUTH)than ever before!

This is very interesting i saw the movie 2012 last year at first i brushed it off as a bunch of bs. But maybe the world will end in 2012 and the may ans were right and theses are just the begging warning signs

chichenitza... look up mayans all that i dont wanna get into this lol on here too much typing. everyone has their own beliefs. but there are many many crazy unexplainable things that happen here on this earth...

Jim, I pretty much agree. Its not religion that is the real problem, the real problem are the people that follow it (ANY) and attempt to push their beliefs on others. They all think they are the RIGHT ONE, and / or THE one, and everyone else' religion is wrong. Please, give me a break. I have very strong beliefs and spirituality, but you will not hear me talking about it on any forum or telling anyone that they need to believe as I do or else. That is wrong, imho.

As far as 2012, well I, and many many others are aware of the Mayans and their long count calendar. They are not the only ones that had 2012 prophecies either. The Hopi did as well, as did many other ancient "prophets". That said, how many prophets have we heard about in our lifetimes that all proclaimed the end of the world, many times, yet we are still here. Not saying the Mayans or Hopi or anyone else that has 2012 prophecies are wrong, but perhaps they don't exactly say what we think.

The earth goes through cyclical changes, as does the solar system, the galaxy, and the universe. Gravity, Gamma Ray Bursts, Quasars, Supermassive black holes, etc... are all among the most powerful forces at work in our universe, and they all have effects on many things including our star, solar system and planet. Just for the record, we are NOT alone in the universe. The laws of physics, quantum physics, and mathematics simply do not allow for us being the only life forms there are.

exactaly thats right many misunderstandins about the mayans and about every religion around the would back in the day all had something occouring dec 22 2012

I also saw the movie 2012 (On TV) and I found it to be kind of interesting. The movie itself is pretty much bs, but the flooding of the world, massive earthquakes, (I think extreme cold was mentioned), are all some possible ways the world can end. I dont think the world will end in 2012, just like it didnt in 2000 and many other years, but there are some changes going on. Its most likely just a cycle and maybe not even a very long cycle. There were cold periods in the 1980s, and a mini ice age a few 100 years before that, and a mild period around the 1200's or so. This kind of thing will be happening over and over and over again.

Subjects like this will definitely bring up some religion, so I try to stay to the scientific facts. For the present, we should all be ready for the strange weather lately and be prepared in the unlikely, but possible event that there is some record breaking cold this winter! There never really is average or normal weather for long periods of time because the climate is always changing, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. I think all the recent things happening is just normal weather patterns and coincidences.
-Alex

Nice to see everybody jumping in the discussion in a polite and non-hostile way!

Makes me really happy to hear everyone's opinions,we all know we can talk about palms
all day long but it's great to see some other subjects be discussed as well!

I was a little worried when I pressed the submit button-LOL
on that last post and if it hadn't been so boring on most of
the forums lately...it never would have happened.

When I hear people talk about the weather and say it's unusual I have to remind myself
that nor'easters every other week are not the norm over there.

Our last 3 winter although cold have not been that "unusual"
I think here we just got used to some mild weather as well,heck the winter before
I started cold hardy palm gardening we only had about 6 weeks of winter!

Anyway,that movie 2012 whether accurate in any way was hilarious....
out driving earthquakes and out flying volcanic eruptions.(-:

What does that say about our culture? Are we looking for that much excitement-ROFL!

Maybe sometimes!

I wasn't really rolling on the floor!

I hope it's safe to put my weather sticker here again-enjoy hearing everyone's opinions
and experiences,we live in exciting times...potentially!

Thanks for the olive branch Jim:) End of the world discussions are tempting for me.

Jesus says who He is in the Bible for those truly seek. People share the Gospel and whoever wishes to enter in - may. As a Hospital and NYC Prision Chaplain I see Christains are more at peace facing problems. When I come into a hospital room or prision cell, Biblical forgiveness, love and healing is what people seek. People in serious circumstances rarely ask me for crystals or budha etc.. 98% people seek real solid forgivess, truth and redemption from sin. Only Jesus paid for sin for those willing to accept the pardon from H-ll to go to Heaven. No matter the sin, drugs, lifestyle etc.. Jesus is willing to come to you and change your life.

All religions can be wrong, but only one can be right. Its a matter of being deceived by the Evil one.

Just the mention His name, Jesus, begins to separate the sheep from the goats.

Jesus created palms.

Hello Everybody...

Bravo Ken!!! Well said...

Everyone has something to offer...and I agree with alot of what has been said...

I do think that ancient civilizations had more knowledge than we do today...I think that we are just here to figure out the puzzle that others already had figured out before us...I know...I didn't want to go deep either...

But look at the ancient island of Crete, located southeast of Greece...this island even thought of as ( Atlantis )
circa 1600 BC had working toilets in their homes....

There is always something to ponder....

Yes,I do believe that we are not alone in this Universe..

We are being watched by others from up above and then some!!!

Thanks for the interesting read everyone!!!

It's kind of refreshing to read other topics every once in awhile....thanks for the thread NCPalmzone!!!

Take care everyone!!!

Laura in VB

Jesus created palms???

How do you respond to that-LOL

How about who ever created Jesus created palms?

Greg-

I understand why it's important for you to attach a brand on-
forgiveness because(believe it or not)your selling something.

"All religions can be wrong, but only one can be right."

How about-

all religions are right but only one can be wrong?

Be careful what you say about Buddha,he had the same message as Christ,
if you don't know that you will never understand Christ either.

When you chose to separate from the whole you make your own hell.

Is this the Jesus and Cycads forum?
Or Jesus and Jesus forum.

Thank you Laura.

While I fully understand, appreciate, and respect each and every individual's right to believe and worship as they chose (or not to), I feel I have to take exception with a some things said here.

I will not point any specific fingers, but it is here in black and white where someone is basically telling everyone else that if we do not believe as they do they are going to suffer a terrible fate.

Telling someone they are going to hell, or will suffer some other terrible fate because one does not believe the same as yourself, to me is just wrong, and every bit as "un godly" or whatever you would like to call it as those who commit unspeakable acts. It is akin to passing judgment through religion. It is the same type of judgment that fuels the radicals who seek to harm and destroy any of those who do not believe as they do. In fact, many of the great wars and massacres around the world and throughout history have been because of this very edict; "Believe as we believe or else". If we were not meant to have freedom of thought, or free will, then we would not have it.

I personally take some modicum of offence at being told what to believe, and or being told that I am going to suffer some terrible fate because I do not believe as someone else. That to me is oppressive.

We are all children of the universe, and god, and are all loved and created equally no matter what. We are born innately good, and learn bad / evil. To me, someone who lives a just/ fair/ compassionate/ good life, abides by laws, leaves others alone, lives and let lives...etc are the ones who are closest to the forces that created us, and are the closest to whatever "god" anyone may believe in. No one person is closer to "god" than any other.

I think perhaps we should stick to the subject matter / topics at hand. If we do stray in to politics or religion, then I think it best to probably state what you believe, without judgment on others, and without telling others what fate awaits them if they do not necessarily believe the same as you, or that they are wrong if they do not believe as you believe.

Personally, for me, anyone can believe whatever they want, and I will fully support and defend them in that no matter how silly whatever it is they believe in may be. It is when people attempt to practice proselytism and judgment, when we open the can of worms to invite all kinds of bad things to occur.

Live and let live, be and let be, so long as it harms no one.

Palms, and all plants and animals, and all life, are just some of the many fantastic and beautiful things that has been created, and allowed to evolve, by our universe.

This is an off topic thread.

Let's enjoy it until the weather changes and then there won't be room on here for this stuff,it is good stuff though!

I would love to hear others opinions on the matter,no matter what they are....and if it ends up back on palms-

I guess that's o.k. too-(-;

Well said NOVA and Jim! I have avoided further comment on this topic because I try to avoid offense whenever possible and respect others who are following a different road to reach the divine. I read some of these "Gardening" threads and am SHOCKED at how quickly some discussion of...you fill in the blank (aroids, cacti, trees, shrubs...) turns into some bizarre diatribe of name-calling, hate and ugliness. We are a very troubled culture, living in troubled times. But if this forum is going to turn into some botanical version the PTL Club, I'll turn to other forums to discuss palms and cycads.

Hi Jim, In response to your claims.

Pontificating popularized media views without knowledge is like saying its impossible to grow palms north of zone 8.
Jesus said He is God (Alpha and Omega)and its also written in Isaiah 9 and 53 in the Old Testament Prophesy over 1,000 yrs before His birth. Budha died claiming no divinity/healings and Jesus resurrected saying follow Me & proved Divine.

You wrote, "all religions are right but only one can be wrong?" That's illogical when they contradict each other. Think it through before giving your soul away to it. As a gardener, you must notice plants are perfectly designed.

Palms can grow in zone 5 with proper protection and an unholy sinner can get a Holy Heaven with Jesus's remedy - His Holy Blood. If there were other ways to get to Heaven, Jesus would not have had to go to the cross for us.

Huh, is this the garden blog or the religion blog...I dont get it.

I don't either Californiamike. I really wish it would stop. Can we dispense with the religious aspect of this thread please? It would be much appreciated.

Njoasis, Bravo! I agree fully. I don't come here to read about, nor discuss religion, nor even politics. The off hand comment once in a while is fine, but entire post devoted to seeming Proselytizing / judgement / condemnation seem very out of place to me.

This is one reason I love Palmtalk. For those not familiar, those are the discussion forums for the IPS (International Palm Society). Postes /Threads such as these are strictly not allowed, neither are politics, and they get deleted right away. Not even the off hand religious or political comment is allowed, not even in once signature. While it is a very strict policy and is strictly enforced, it also goes a very very very LONG way to keeping things in order, in line, and at peace on those forums. There are plenty of forums to choose from other than palms, and IIRC one is a 'free for all', discuss anything type, but even there, religion and politics are not allowed. While I find the policy may be almost too strict at times, it does do exactly what it is supposed to do, and that is prevent conversations from degrading into any sort of ugly diatribe, which ones of political and/ or religious nature often do.

Personally, I think off topic threads are great now and then, especially in the doldrums of winter, but honestly, I think things such as what has appeared in here really are best left OUT of forums that are not devoted to those particular topics.

Hey Nova, thanks...I come here to learn about palms and meet other palm loving people...I learned a lot from this site and it has helped me greatly. I already belong to on line political groups, where I get to discuss that and that is fine, but on a garden website, no way.

Okay, when is spring coming, I have a count down, but it is not coming fast enough
M

I think one of the great things about a forum like this
is that you get input from(hopefully)a wide range of people
and though I know this "religious/religion stuff" rubs people the wrong
way to some degree I think it has not gone off into name calling and finger pointing...yet(-:

This is the most active thread on the board right now,like it or not(-: but as mentioned,when spring comes along we can
enjoy our palm threads again with some new insight as to who some of the people are on this palm forum,or maybe just what they believe.

Back to the original Q-it was about birds falling from the sky,not the sky falling but maybe they are related?

Anyway,there is A LOT of weather post's on all the forums lately,here in Iowa it has not been that unusual(the weather(-;)just cold but not wickedly cold or biblical cold-
whatever that is-I think the original question(about birds) could lead us into some religious beliefs/spiritual stuff and what not so,let's try to be a little tolerant of others beliefs( I don't think anyone hasn't been?),even if they are not ours....I will too!-try that is(-;

Anyway 2,I would like to hear more people's opinions about this and anything else they think is odd,there has been a lot of reference to 2012 and whether people believe there is anything to that...I for one would love to hear more of everyone's opinions on that-no matter where it takes us.

looking forward to spring...about the time I get used to all the snow,the season changes.

About 200 birds were found dead in my town. They say the deaths were caused by a flock of birds being hit by a semi truck. lol I can understand maybe 20 birds being killed by a truck but not 200!

And about the 2012 thing. I have spoken with some Mayan natives and every time i ask about the world ending they laugh.
Basically they told me that 2012 is simply the end of their calender. The reason they didn't have a calender going past 2012 is because they just didn't plan that far ahead. and this has led some people to believe the mayans thought it would be the end of time.
One of the archeologists i talked to when visiting the ruins in the Yucatan said that it is a huge misunderstanding of the Mayan hieroglyphics.

lol... it would stop is u kept posting things lol

I agree with you Jim, I didn't see name-calling or hairpulling yet..LOL. I guess we will see what happens 2012.

Great point tropicpalms, Nova cried the loudest and yet wrote the biggest speeches here... LOL. Nothing personal to nova, but he should know Jesus warned people about hell and it is not ungodly to do so. I am almost afraid to write it because he will go off again. Nova... me come in peace:)

This is a good forum for us cold weather palm folks.

Greg

Whether you think you are right or not,some people that express things the way you do will not listen to anything else.

So,it's not possible to have any discussion with you.

Nova did not cry about anything and I enjoyed hearing his opinion,I would also enjoy hearing yours as well,if you had one of your own to share.

This is what I was talking about in my earlier post,this may not stay on this forum long but it's time for you to hear it.

I will only say this once,I hope you think about it and it scares you.

The people that nailed Jesus to the cross were intolerant of others and their beliefs because they believed themselves to be right.

This means you Greg-

you would not listen to Jesus if he came now because you are stuck somewhere- don't believe you would see him or anyone nailed to the cross again but I think you would turn your back the same way you do on your brothers when you say yours is the only way.

Shame on you.

Jim, thanks.

The only response I am going to make here is that I mentioned NO ONE by name. No one. I expressed my opinion in as fair a manner as possible while making as best an attempt I could at not being inflammatory.

I have to say, Brooklynberg, Jim is right. Further, your comments towards me, as well as your seemingly judgmental / its my way or the highway comments / attitude, are basically what brought this thread to where it is now.

I'm not the kind to go off on anyone, call them names..etc, but I am the type that will call it like I see it, and stand up for myself, especially in the face of someone attempting to impose their will and / or system of beliefs, spirituality, or anything else, on me, or anyone else.

That is all I am going to say on this matter from here on out.

Personally, While I think there may very well be an increase in weather / climate extremes, I do not think the world is going to come to an end. =o)

i love.... ncpalmzone, loveplants, novaplantguy, statenisland, jimhardy, brooklyn, njoasis, tropzone and many others... def PALM TREES!!!!! yay january 2010 new year look fordward to better happier brighter year! -thanks everyone for all the support, help, effort,pictures and thoughts u all have. -Justin in VB

ericthehurdler 8b.....6 posts back.....

Sorry Eric

I got side tracked (just a little,not chicken little(-;)from
your post...200 birds hit by a truck?

What I want to know is what is a truck doing up there with the birds?
I also think a truck could take out 200 birds if it went at them sideways-LOL

All kidding aside,where did this happen and what kind of birds were they?

Thanks for the update.

Jim what will you tell Him if He returns? Did He ask you that yet?

Jim or is it James, did you forgive that guy who stole one of your big leaves from your garden this summer? Why did that happen? Can you answer?

Jesus is about eternal life and any discussions about the end of the world (birds falling from the sky) although seemingly inconsequential comparatively, bring to mind His return.

He said we would be persecuted for His name sake and you can put down your rocks now. You have fulfilled His Word.

The Word doesn't return void. Like the rain it shall bring a harvest.
Justin said it best.

I think the person who stole the leaf probably really wanted it,it was a magnificent leaf,so I can't really blame him.

No forgiveness needed.

It is odd to have your garden face the street as it does.

On one hand I take a certain pride in sharing it with people and really enjoy there comments on it!

On the other,I really like to enjoy every facet of it(the beautiful
glow of energy around the leaves,the play of wind and air as the leaves vibrate to it)uninterrupted.

They are like my children,my little family and I have a lot to learn from them.it only takes stilling the mind long enough to absorb it all.

I truly love my garden and look forward to "being"/walking in it again-truly a miracle of creation.

Ahhhhhh....Spring,I will enjoy it after this cold snowy winter but winter does serve the purpose of rest.

Justin, you mean Jan 2011? hehehe. ;o)

Jim, Lets not egg him on anymore. Obviously he wants to continue. if no one responds to it anymore, it will simply just go away.

I suppose for some people a simple "God Bless" or something of that nature is just simply not enough.

Your weather thing says 14F there right now. OUCH! I suppose I don't hate winter. I mean I do like conifers too, and those are more found in cooler climates. I also love spring when everything "springs" back to life. =o) That is one of the things I think I would miss if I was in a very tropical area. That is part of the reason that if/ when we do move to a warmer climate, we really are considering one that is warm enough, but also cool enough to have the seasons of fall and spring as well. I could do without the snow, but I suppose once in a while is ok. Its the frigid cold, and for extended periods that I cant stand the most.

@jimhardy
the birds were found dead next to a highway in Geyserville California.
thus the semi truck theory.
the birds were small with brown and black feathers, no idea of what kind specifically.

Thanks Eric

Very interesting,unless your a bird.
I think I read somewhere that it was Red wing blackbirds in Arkkansas.

Ken-
Yea,it's cold and getting ready to be colder if you belive the weather forecast,I saw -10 for next Wednesday,they said -6 yesterday and -7 earlier today and now (as mentioned) they are aying -10,eekk,sounds cold.
I will be saving my eggs for now.

Peace out(-:

WOW..Really interesting thread. I just want to say that spring will be here soon. Hang in there everyone. My palms are looking green and lush. As far as the bird and fish deaths, a real head scratcher for me. I am a Christian and this thread could have really gotten out of hand. I am pleased to say that everyone in this forum has been pretty respectful of others opinions. It just goes to show you how much class everyone has here. Let's all hope for early spring. Good luck to all the rest of the way.

God Bless...

wow! i didnt think this thread will get so much attention,and its nice to see that all feel a connection and sense of friendship through cold hardy goodness,it all started when me and my friends were debating the cause for the things going on ended in immature jokes ((cause were all in our 20's and have degrees))yep some of us still act like children,i knew i can turn to to my gardenweb friends for a more mature explanations.Thank you all for this !showing that were not just cold hardy robots but people that care for whats going on in the world!!!

p.s. Jim love your sense of humor and your ability to lighten up a situation ((lol on some of your post))-Justin i love you too brother!!((did any of your new sabals suffer any frond damage?))so ready for the ice to melt!Laura your like the mother of all of us so caring.Greg,Jim, Alex ,and Nova you guys break down cold hardy palms to a science really impress by your knowledge!!You are the ((go to guys)) know more about palms in zone 7 and below then people that live in zone 9 and up((no offense to zone 9 and up people,just you guys got it easy))..anyways thank you to everybody that contribute!

Thanks Ncpalmzone7

You know those z9 peeps gotta grow Coconuts to keep it interesting
and people in he tropics want Apples for some reason....if it ain't one thing it's another(-;

Winter is really ramping up here just when(meteorologically)you
would expect,I read today that one of the computer models has us at -20F by next Saturday! Eeek!

That's tree snapping/popping weather!

-20 holly moly!!yikes ,bet you can make a killing selling ice to eskimos lol,man i saw some wild chinese windmill growing in the woods near my daughter's school,the things that went through my mind..lol((grab shovel,jump over fence,dig super fast and run like hell..lol)) here's a pix of it early spring.maybe ill just ask permission cause it looks like were naturalize

Wow NCpalm, those look awesome! If they were planted, it must have been going without care for a long time now! Windmill palms really look great in a wilder situation and you dont see them like that too often in a zone 7!

Jim, hope you dont go down to -20F! I cant even imagine what that must be like! Good news is that it seems like there might be some warm ups coming in the next few weeks. This storm coming on Tuesday better bring all rain!

-Alex

Jim, that is CRAZY COLD!!!

I think its funny that were all zone pushers in the sense that we are attempting to grow palms period, but those in palm growing climates, are attempting to grow warmer climate palms still. Maybe its the "we want what were told we cant have" or "that wont grow here" syndrome". lol.

NCPalm, now THAT is very cool that Windmills appear to be naturalising!!! Personally, I would leave them and allow them to naturlaise. How cool would that be to have a naturlaised population of those, anywhere in the U.S. ? I Highly doubt they are going to become an invasive.

That would actually make for a very interesting subject / thread.. to find , photograph and post pictures of naturalised populations of Windmills and even other non native palms.

Great pics guys,very nice.

They have really backed off on the forecast cold for now,
I think I saw a few -1s and -4 in there,so not to bad but
not balmy either.

I didn't pay that much attention but I thought I heard today that the NAO
is positive now,doesn't exactly look like a warm up anytime soon though.

I would be most happy riding this out until the end of January and having
even normal weather from there on out-that would seem warm at this point.

NAO has become much less negative--slightly positive in fact. This should mean more zonal (normal) temps--especially for the South and East. Should also reduce the frequency of coastal storms in the East. We'll see!

It would be nice if it stays positive or at least does not go back to negative
but I think it will be a while before any positive effects are seen/if any,right away.

Apparently it is going positive and northeastern canada is going to get cold again. I think a lot of people will be looking forward to that. They have been above average all winter and fall, and not a little above average either!

Apparently a cold Feb. ahead for the Northeast but relief for areas that have been below average (I guess NYC was an exception because it looks like it will be staying cold here!!). There is also a chance for more snow here. The snow from the last storm didnt melt yet, and Im sure that there is a good 2 or 3 inches of snow that is still from the blizzard a month ago!! I cant remember snow ever having the snow last almost all winter (with the exception of the 30ft pile of snow at parking lots). It looks like that could be the case though with the snow this winter. I really miss seeing grass, even if it is a little brown this time of the year. I actually saw some a week ago before the last snow storm dumped 6 more inches of snow!
So long story short, a lot of snow and cold here, and looks like it will continue like that for most of the winter and all of January. Most of the cold will likely focus over New England and upstate New York, sparing NYC, the rest of the mid atlantic, and the southeast. The plains might get a break, but the coldest days probably havent been seen yet in many areas of the plains if they are right about this next cold blast. The west will be warming up. Not bad considering that the west coast is suppose to be colder than normal during a La Nina year!
Good luck!
-Alex

NYC is set for more snow this friday, still dont know how much...and then bitter cold temps for at least a week....My yard is covered with at least a foot or so, in some areas, I can see ground, but not much. I just want some warm days to melt the snow, and give us a break.we need it.

Yep, definitely looks like more snow! It could get up to 6 inches. I think its a pretty safe bet to say that this weather isnt going to stop any time soon!
-Alex

Below zero temps have been predicted here about a dozen times.

Looks like we may finally get it Friday morning as -7F is forecast.

Clouds and snow have stopped it every time,my hope is
that we start a warming trend after this week-
even if it is slow as molasses in winter!