Lawn Seed Selection

16 years ago

I'm enthusiastic so far in the organic approach to lawn care and I thank the posters on this forum for their valuable information. I'm getting good results, but this fall is the first time I've used feed grains for fertilizer. A long way to go. I'm already thinking about my approach to improving the lawn next fall. I can't find comparative pictures of lawns and I'm somewhat overwhelmed by the types and varieties of lawn seed. My lawn is in Northern Virginia. I used Lesco Transition TTTF this fall and for this area and my particular situation I'm convinced that a TTTF is a good choice. I'd like to add some (10-15%) KBG just for its ability to spread and thicken up the turf. There is a VA and MD Turfgrass variety work group that publishes a recommended list every year of seeds. Some are very high on the NTEP lists and some aren't, but my assumption is that the listed seeds have done well at both University of Maryland and Virginia Tech turf trials and would be satisfactory for my lawn. Here are my questions and I'd appreciate any feedback:

- How important is the elite variety(ies) of KBG cultivar?

- Will an organic approach improve the results of lesser rated cultivars such that finding and paying for the elite cultivars isn't really necessary? Or, does the old adage you get what you pay for apply here as well? For instance, Lesco uses Shamrock KBG in their mixes, but that isn't on the recommended list. I can locally find KBG cultivars that are on the list and just mix with the TTTF.

- Would the NTEP ratings be significantly different under a real world organic approach?

- Do mixes of TTTF/TTPR/KBG perform as well or better than single variety meaning the diversity of variety types is a healthier more productive lawn?

- What I think I've learned from this forum is that the process (mulch, water, feed the soil) is more important. Common sense tells me that the better quality of seed I start with the better off my lawn will be. Does this seem reasonable?

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Comments (12)

dchall_san_antonio
16 years ago
Let's talk about seed purity for a moment. There are two seeds you really need to be wary of: bermuda and bent. Unless you want a bermuda or bent lawn, these are considered very aggressive weeds. The really bad thing about them is that their seed is the size of dust while "real" grass seed is more like seed sized. When you have contamination of TTTF seed with bent seed, it does not take very much bent grass seed dust to over shadow the TTTF seed in actual seed count. When they make the seed bag or box labels, they measure by weight. So when you see a box labeled 99.9% TTTF (whatever variety) with 0.10% Weed (or Other Crop), you could be buying a bag full of bentgrass seed simply because the weight of the bentgrass seed is so light. So when you find a seed you want, look for a supplier who will guarantee 0.00% Weed AND 0.00% Other Crop. You will not find this purity of seed at Wal-Mart. You will only find this seed at better garden stores and nurseries. You do get what you pay for in seed purity.
bestlawn
16 years ago
I don't want to give a headache in trying to select the right type of bluegrass seed for your lawn to mix with fescue. However, I do want to offer food for thought. First thing is to always select the best seed possible. Another is to take your growing conditions into consideration. If you have shade, more thought goes into the bluegrass selection, depending on how much sunlight the area receives. And another thought is the color of your fescue lawn (or the new fescue seed you're planting), so as to try matching as closely as possible. Furthermore, consider any diseases you have had in the past or any that are common to your area and select resistant varieties. Most likely, relatively newer or improved varieties will offer the better disease resistance in general. One last things I can think of at the moment is growth habit. When mixing (or blending) species, you want to ensure uniformity by selecting all varieties that grow and tolerate mowing height much the same. There are lots of fescues that grow slowly and can be mowed low and many bluegrass, too. But, many fescues don't and many bluegrasses don't. The best idea is choose similar maintenance requirements as it relates to mowing frequency and height.

Clear as mud?

I'll answer your questions individually if you still wish.
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OK, there are a few ways to apply traffic to a stand of grass, and NTEP has three traffic locations (North Brunswick, Madison WI, and East Lansing MI). Here is a summary on what was done at each site: Traffic tolerance was evaluated at three locations in 2010, using different types of traffic simulators. The North Brunswick, NJ location (Rutgers University) applied traffic in May 2010, nine months after the last traffic �season�, using the "Slapper," which causes leaf abrasions but not soil compaction. The entries that rated 6.0 or higher (scale is 1-9; 9=best) after the May simulation include �Greenteam�, �BAR VV 0709', �Bariris�, �BAR VV 9630�, �Sombrero�, �Emblem� and �Julia�. Canopy fullness, expressed as a percentage, was evaluated after the initial 36 passes of wear on May 6th. All of the above entries plus �CPP 822� and �Barduke� had the highest canopy fullness ratings (51.7 to 71.7%). 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Entries also showing high percent cover ratings on one or more dates include �Skye�, �Washington� and �Washington II�. The Madison, WI location used a pull-behind cart of water-filled drums with golf cart tires to impose traffic stress. This led to excellent cultivars differences, led by �SW AG 514�, �Harmonie�, �Sombrero�, �Greenteam� and �Dynamo�. Interestingly, most of the traffic tolerant grasses were also the best performers where no traffic was applied." Most of these tests simulate things like a football or soccer game, although the Madison location is more like golf course traffic, so these trials can be taken with a grain of salt. As long as you are in the top half I think most cultivars will tolerate a dog and a few kids running around, unless you have 18 kids like the Duggars. Rutgers gives a summary of some good traffic tolerant cultivars in this link, but it's from the 2000 trial: http://www.cpe.rutgers.edu/brochures/pdfs/athletic-field/Kentucky-Bluegrass-for-Sports-Fields.pdf Keep in mind you can't get every cultivar, unless you buy a 50 lb. bag from the grower or a distributor. I have never seen Barvette for sale, and most of Barenbrug's cultivars (names starting with Bar-) aren't available individually unless you buy a lot. Also the 2005 shade trial was a bust, and those numbers represent only one year of data. It was too shady and the test was stopped prematurely. The 2000 shade test is much better as it encompassed all 5 years, but unfortunately it didn't contain some of today's newest cultivars. The number one cultivar was Brilliant, which was discontinued due to its low seed yields. It's unfortunate as it is a really good cultivar. 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This was and still is the convention, but some of the newer cultivars have enough disease resistance that some turfgrass scientists are not against planting just one cultivar, which will give a more consistent look (http://buckeyeturf.osu.edu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1067:kentucky-bluegrass-cultivars&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=170). As you can see, it can get pretty involved, and I know a few people that went the monostand route with no real issues, but they are a bit more involved with lawn care than most. My advice to you is to pick 4 or 5 cultivars from each of the major groups (compacts, aggressive, and maybe the midatlantics) that meet your number one criteria. Then see where they fall in your number 2 and 3 criteria. This will probably narrow it down so you have a few from each that you will be able to find for sale. Or you can just screw all that and pick one cultivar that performs well across the board and has good disease resistance. 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soccer_dad
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks dchall, that is a very good point. One of the reasons I went to Lesco this fall was 0% weed seed.

Thanks bestlawn. All very good points. I think the advice to select the best seed possible is very good advice, even though my nature is to find "good enough" at the cheapest price. How does one go about matching growth habits? Is it a generic low, medium, high trait that is published or ??
bestlawn
16 years ago
The producers have descriptions on their websites to tell of each variety's traits and characteristics. Most wholesalers and retailers supply descriptions on their sites also. If you have trouble finding what you need, I can usually locate most of them. Just let me know.

To get you started, here are a few producer sites....
Pickseed
Turf-Seed, Inc. (now owned by Scotts)
Jacklin Simplot
Seed Research
Turf Merchants

There are several others, but this is a good starting point. Note also there may be some varieties not listed on the producer's website.
soccer_dad
Original Author
16 years ago
Oh, bestlawn! You didn't warn me that there were "types" of KBG, LoL. Compact, Midnight, BVMG, Mid-Atlantic..., what is a layman to do! Should keep me busy over the winter trying to make sense of the vast number of bluegrasses. Thanks for your links.
bestlawn
16 years ago
I didn't mention it because it's most important when blending bluegrass and much less important when selecting just one bluegrass variety to mix with fescue. You only need one, so you don't have to be concerned with the different types. The objective is to blend for diversity. You're not blending, you're mixing species. Can't get more diverse than that.
samokhin
15 years ago
Thanks bestlawn for the list of producers!
It is hard to choose the right one...

Could you please provide with a list of the most popular and the most trusted lawn seed producers especially from the north part of the country or from Canada?
It would be highly appreciated
bpgreen
15 years ago
Samokhin--GW banned bestlawn a few months ago, so she no longer posts here.
skizot
15 years ago
bpgreen, I've seen you post that a few times recently. What exactly was she banned for, and by whom?
bpgreen
15 years ago
By Gardenweb. I don't know what she was banned for. I know it was something that happened on one of the other (not lawn related) forums. I think they removed the thread that got her in trouble.
skizot
15 years ago
Yeah, I was just meaning banned by a moderator of GW. She must have done something pretty bad to actually get banned from the forums, I would think anyways. Unless she was trash talking against GW, or doing something against the rules, I don't see why she would get banned. I searched around and someone said it was because of a disagreement in a debate, which if this is true, is pretty unfortunate.
samokhin
15 years ago
Thanks bpgreen!
That is a shame... Bestlawn did quite informative posts.

Could someone, please, answer my question?

It is too hard to choose the right brand name of lawn seed producer or a reputable seed house..., especially if the subject is unfamiliar to you (it is for me). Anyway, it seems better paying a few extra cents per pound for good quality seed than trying to maintain an attractive lawn that was from poor quality seed...

Could someone, please, give a list of leaders of the lawn seed market in the north part of the country or in Canada, the most trusted producers, brand names or reputable seed houses? Just to go and buy with certainty that you are not going to have troubles with your lawn. That would be highly appreciated!!! Thanks a lot!

Lawn Seed Selection

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Lawn Seed Selection

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