Good morning 'Tomato Man'....lol. You seem to be getting very "into" the tomatoes. How many plants do you have now?

I just use tomato cages and be done with it...they are not perfect and I know many have other methods but this is cheap and easy as long as I keep poking the plants back into their cages.

Dawn will know what is best.

I am just concerned because mine are STILL not growing...at least not the ones who survived the freeze by being dug up then replanted. The two newer ones I planted last week look okay so far. We need a LOT more days like the last two then the gardens will start really taking off. But rain is in forecast all week long.....UGH!

Yes we ALL need all the luck and blessings we can get on our gardens this year.
G.M.

Well, it may surprise you to learn that I'm really not "into" tomatoes. I've never bit into a raw one, I never order them on burgers or sandwiches, I don't eat cherry tomatoes in salads and I hate ketchup... Really the only time I eat a tomato product of any kind is in Italian food.

However, I have told my plants that I will eat whatever they give me.

I have five plants right now. Two of them I planted before the Easter freeze and they nearly died. But now they have blossoms and are growing upward! They are both beefsteak-types. I have five plants total -- two in the back, three in the front.

Out of curiosity, how much should five tomato cages cost me?

I'm sorry to hear you're having troubles. I guess I lucked out and the cold wasn't as extreme up here in Tulsa County. I have a feeling I'll need quite a few more days as well -- especially since I buried the new ones so deep that they barely look like sprouts!

My name is Dawn and I am a tomato maniac. If there was a 12-step group for people who simply MUST grow tomatoes, and the more varieties the better....I would have to join it! lol

I have always grown tomatoes using wire cages, but I am too cheap to spend the money for the expensive Concrete Reinforcing Wire, so I just buy rolls of welded wire fencing, cut it into the desired lengths and form it into round cages. After a couple of decades of growing tomatoes, I now have hundreds of these cages in various sizes. I grow all my peppers in small cages and often grow melons, cukes and pumpkins inside the larger ones too, using the cages as round trellises for the plants.

Because I know from experience which plants get approximately which size, I put the larger, sturdier cages around the plants expected to grow the largest. I stake the cages with either wooden stakes or metal fence posts, using zip ties to attach the cages to the stakes.

I have used wire fencing of various gauges, and think that most of what I have bought over the years is either 12 or 14 gauge. It is not as heavy as concrete reinforcing wire, which I might use if I only needed a few cages instead of very many. I could buy heavier wire, but heavier wire is harder to cut with wire cutters, so I stay with a gauge that is light enough for me to handle.

I am a huge fan of cages. In our climate and with our fierce winds which so often accompany severe thunderstorms, cages of any sort are superior to methods like the florida weave, using stakes and twine. I think the PVC pipe cages look really nice and seem sturdy, but I have never tried them.

Keep in mind that the average indeterminate tomato plant in my garden will be 6 feet tall or taller by late May to early June, and a few will easily top 8 feet, with some getting as high as 10' tall before the summer heat shuts down the upward growth. Imagine using wooden stakes and strings to hold up something like that! Most years I never have a single cage topple over even in very high winds, and this is important because plants that fall over onto the ground in a rainstorm tend to develop foliar diseases almost instantly, and you don't want that.

Some people form their cages into circles and use zip ties to connect the two ends to one another, and then cut the zip ties and store the cages as flat wire panels. I form permanent cages by bending the cut edges of the wire and wrapping them around the opposite end of the panel, so I don't unfold mine to store flat...I stand them up with the smaller ones nested inside the larger ones. Keep in mind that I have endless space for storage since I live on country acreage.

Suppose you want to make six cages. Cut the wire for two of them 60", cut the wire for the next two 56", and cut the wire for the next two 52". When you want to store them in the fall, the smallest cage will slip inside the medium cage, and the medium cage will slip inside the largest cage. You'll have two 'stacks' of three cages each to store instead of six separate cages.

If you make the PVC ones, you can disassemble them and store them in a shed or garage.

Whatever you do, don't buy the little round traditional three or four ring wire cages you often see in nurseries, home center stores or discount stores. They are too small and too flimsy and will not support a healthy indeterminate tomato plant. They will support bell pepper plants, tall herbs like Lemon Verbena, taller basils or Mexican Mint Marigold or any of the smaller determinate tomatoes like Better Bush or Bush Early Girl.

If I were starting out today and had no cages, I might go with the PVC pipe cages, although I suspect wire cages would be cheaper in the long run. The PVC pipe cages look really nice although the white pipe stands out a little more in the garden whereas wire kind of disappears into the foliage.

If you go the wire fencing route, you will notice that much of the wire fencing sold in stores has squares that are too small for your hands to fit through. (One advantage of concrete reinforcing wire is its' larger squares.) I get around this by cutting 2 or 3 'portholes' in the cage which enables me to reach through to harvest tomatoes.

And for the latest tomato report from my garden.....all is well. A few tomatoes have shown a little bacterial speck on the lower leaves which is common in rainy weather. Otherwise, NO pests to speak of yet...no flea beetles, no aphids, no caterpillars, etc. It is an exceptionally good year so far. My tallest plants are in the 3' to 3.5' tall range and my smallest are about 18" tall. Most are blooming and many have set fruit. I harvested my first two ripe tomatoes early last week from a containerized Better Bush plant. The other containerized Better Bush plant has 3 half-ripe ones that I will get to pick in another 3 days or so.

Of the plants in large containers, Early Girl has the largest tomatoes but Kimberly may ripen first since they are smaller. Among the early tomatoes, Ultimate Opener is blooming but has been slow to set fruit and Oregon Spring V is a lazy slow-grower. Of the plants in the ground, Black Prince and Snow White are in a race to produce the first ripe one. Among the plants with blooms, Earl's Faux, Cherokee Purple and Lucky Cross are most prolific at this point.

I haven't counted them lately, but think I have about 130 plants in the ground and 15 or 20 in containers. Round 2, which is the plants I started from seed the first week in March, will go into the ground this week. I will probably put about 20 to 25 of them into the ground, and maybe 5 of them into pots. In mid-May, I will start Round 3 of the plants from seed for fall tomatoes to transplant into the garden in late June or early July. They will go into the two raised beds currently occupied by onions.

Good luck making your 'support' decision.

Dawn

Dawn:

Check out fig. 5 on this site:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/easygardening/tomato/tomato.html

Is this what you're talking about doing? I'm having a hard time visualizing because I've only seen people using the storebought cages you mentioned (and said not to buy).

I can't imagine my humble little plants growing four feet tall, let along six or ten feet tall! But if they do, I don't want them falling over.

I needed two more cages so I picked up a couple at Big Lots on the weekend for about $1.00 or $1.25 each. don't know if they were cheaper at walmart but I was there and just needed two so got them. They are really cheap. I am sure Dawn's wire cages are more durable but the cheap cages you buy for a buck or so each is what I use most times anymore. These cages would be a cheap way to see how you like growing tomatoes and they really do fine unless you have really large plants later on...I have had cherry tomato plants get so large they were more outside the cage than in.
Anyway that is my 2 cents again.....can't imagine you planting tomatoes if you don't eat them! does your wife like them. Wow I love them....could eat 'em right off the plant and have...lol. What kind of yield you will get is not really predictable. That is so dependant on so many different factors.

Dawn
I am so sorry about the poison ivy on YOU! Oh my!
Do you know I have walked it, sat in it, pulled it up with bare hands, all that of course not knowing what it actually was....never bothered me. They say you never know when it will though so now I don't take chances. It can be really bad. What do you do for it?

There was an old holistic doc in Ardmore when I was a child and everyone went to him for poison ivy cure. He used different tinctures he poured over sugar pills or possibly saccarine tablets and it cured it real fast. Hope you have the answer for getting rid of it.

I gotta get busy again....my break is over.
G.M.

I have grown tomatoes in zone 4/5 but never knew that they would get 6-10 ft tall here! I was considering letting them sprawl because I did not have cages as of yet. Is that not a good idea? The plants are still small so I have time? but the budget is also very small :)

Mark

Hey Jeff

I'm gonna offer my 2 cents from one tomato rookie to another. I looked through this support ideas thread in the tomatoes forum (as well as many other threads,) where I came across Tom Matkey's PVC Tomato Cages and decided since I live on a small urban type lot & don't have a lot of room for stuff that I'd use these.

I bought enough stuff for 5 cages, cut it so it's ready to go & it's stores neatly and quite compact along the wall in my garage & the cars both still fit without any undue crowding.

Here's what the cage looks like with fully grown indeteminate plants in them, and how much room it takes up in my garage.....right next to the golf clubs.... 8^)

Just my 2 cents

Good day, Dan

Jeff, the drawing of the cage on the Texas A&M website page is exactly was I was talking about. I have used cages like those since the early 1980s and my dad and lots of our neighbors used them way back in the 1960s

I know it is hard to imagine that tomato plants will get that tall, but they will. A healthy indeterminate tomato plant, raised in good soil with good drainage, receiving at least 6 to 8 hours of sunlight every day, will easily top six week unless it is genetically programmed to reach a certain height and stop. Nebraska Wedding and Persimmon both, for example, seem to stop growing once they reach five to six feet. Better Boy, Brandy Boy, Brandywine, Sweet Million and Fourth of July, on the other hand, just keep growing taller and taller and taller.

G.M., I weedeated some poison ivy when I was trimming outside my garden fence last week. The poison ivy is in the wooded area north of my garden and tries constantly to sneak into the garden. When I weedeated it, I guess some of the tiny pieces flew up inside my shirt and got me. It is only the second time I have ever had it, and I think my case is fairly mild.

Mark, In good soil and with good rainfall/irrigation and if grown in full sunlight, your tomato plants will easily hit six feet tall or taller if they are indeterminates. Our heat in combination with good moisture produces monster plants.

I don't like to let tomato plants sprawl as the sprawling plants tend to get every foliage disease in the book which interferes with their productivity. If it is a wet year, fruit that touches the ground will tend to rot before it ripens. Around here insect pests seem worse on plants that sprawl on the ground. Also, in my case, plants left sprawling on the ground tend to harbor snakes.

If you MUST let your tomato plants sprawl, please mulch heavily with several inches of mulch. It will help prevent soil splash and may lessen your disease problems and also may prevent fruit from rotting.

Dan, I love those PVC pipe cages. They have become sort of an instant classic since they first appeared on the internet. If I didn't already have 200 or 300 wire cages, and if I was just starting out, I might start out with the PVC cages. I hope you'll let us know how well they do for you this growing season. I have wondered how well the PVC pipe will hold up....say five or ten years from now?

Jeff, About the cost....you can buy the wire rings for about $2.00 to $4.00 at discount stores and home centers, but your tomatoes may outgrow them. I buy a 50' roll of fencing for abour $39.99 at someplace like Lowe's (price depends on the gauge of the roll) and get about 10 cages out of it, so that's about $4.00 per cage, but they last forever, The oldest cages I am still using are about 15 to 17 years old.

Hope all of this is not 'too much information'. Good luck choosing your method of support.

Dawn

I saw at least one of the tags on my plants said "indeterminate," and I've seen several of you use this term. What does indeterminate mean in reference to tomato plants?

Here's another "recipe" for making tomatoe cages. I was trying to find the one they did on Victory Garden a couple of weeks ago. If you decide to go with the supports designated as "tomatoe cages", I've heard to try to get the biggest ones you can find.

Personally, I just buy a big roll of wire with large openings in it, and use it for everything from tomatoes to vines. I just use my wire cutters to cut desired lengths. It's so much cheaper than buying tomatoe cages even, and you can use it to make trellises for your other vining plants, like morning glories, for instance.

I've even heard of people using old mattress springs for vine supports! LOL!

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomatoe Cage

Jeff,

Indeterminate tomato varieties tend to be vining in nature. They are tall, sometimes lanky plants and need to be staked, trellised or caged. They do not stop growing throughout the tomato season, although excessive heat will slow them down. They will produce fruit until frost, or in our climate until the heat stops production, which usually then restarts in the fall with the return of cooler temps. Indeterminates are harder to grow in containers. You have to have containers that are really, really large. Indeterminates can get 12 to 15 feet tall in ideal conditions. I think Charlie Wilbur holds the world record and his plants were about 38 feet tall, I believe.

Determinates are shorter and their growth is more bushlike. They have shorter branches with the flowering/fruiting at the ends of the branches. They do not continue growing throughout the season but rather reach a certain size and stop growing. They have a shorter fruiting period and tend to put out most of their fruit in one or two big flushes. They tend to stay about 3 to 5 feet in height. You generally do not have to cage or stake them. Many roma tomatoes are determinates. Many modern-day hybrids are determinates. Determinates are easier to grow in large containers. Determinates tend to produce earlier than indeterminates.

I grow a mix of determinates and indeterminates, with the determinates grown mostly for their earliness or to produce a lot of tomatoes at once (like paste-type tomatoes, for example) for canning or saucing.

Dawn

I don't cage mine I put a wooden stake in the ground and tie them to it with stretch fabric so they still can move I do have to retie them as the grow

Dawn do you cut the extra limbs off your plants are just let them go?

Sheepie:

In general I do not cut off the extra limbs. Our heat and sun are so intense that I believe the plants need every limb they have to increase photosynthesis and also to shade the fruit and protect against sunscald.

If I used stakes as you do, I might find that I had to prune off the suckers to control the size of the plant.

If I find I am having a problem with bacterial speck on the lower limbs, I will remove them, but then healthy limbs usually regrow in their place and I let those stay.

How tall do your staked tomatoes get? When they reach the top of the stake, do you cut off the top to prevent them from growing taller or do you let them hang back down?

Dawn

I'll jump in since I seem to do it differently. I started out with the small cages. The next year I bought the big cages. After the end of May, I never saw either cage again. So I made my own out of a roll of field fence. They were almost three feet across and almost 4 feet tall. This time it took until the first of July until those disappeared inside the cage-eating tomato plants.
I watched an episode of Oklahoma Gardening where they used cattle panels. These are the 12-16ft long pieces of fence that are about 5ft tall. They get staked up with a couple of t-posts. I use these now. I put them on the posts about 6inches off of the ground and right above the plants. As they grow I tie them to the panels with strips of material from my wife's quilt scraps. It has worked very well for me. All of the other cages collapsed or blew over in a storm. I use the same panels and posts for cucumbers and even watermelons. To store them I just lean them up against the dog pen. 1 takes up about the same room as 5.
The old tomato cages work well for the peppers, though.

I've used the cattle panels for years. I bend them into a arc shape and stick each of the ends in the ground. I tie up the 'maters as they grow - by the end of the summer, they form a tomatoe tunnel :)

Dragonladytoo - I LOVE that idea. Can you give me a ballpark figure on the cost per panel? I think I might want to use them for other vines, too.

What I'd REALLY love to have is a water trough for some water gardening. I'm just too old to dig a small pond.

Susan

okiedawn, we've met on other forems so,hi there!!
We've always made our tomato cages exactly like yours and used them for cukes and other plants too. Did you ever try growing sugar baby watermelons in them? They work good also. and i use them for morning glories too.
vickie

Dawn I have 6ft stakes and sometimes I have extra stakes beside them to tie up the extra limbs this is how a older lady showed me how to do it and to cut off the extra limbs but that was when I lived in Tulsa

But now I am thinking that your way would be a lot better I have noticed I don't get as many tomatoes down here as I used to get up there and was talking with DH and we are going to give it a try this year and not do all that cutting and cage them and see how it goes maybe I will have more to eat this year :)

Susan, Some Lowes stores have the panels. Mine got them this year for the first time and I paid $18 each. They are 16 feet long. I have two growing with tomato plants, one with peas, one cut in half and mounted vertically for beans, and one in an arch for cucumbers. Of course, it is still too early in my growing seasons to give a report on most things, but the peas are clinging nicely to them. I planted tomato plants on both sides of the panel in alternate locations along the sides. I saw several people on another forum that use two panels spaced 12 to 14 inches apart with the plants sandwiched in between. That way you wouldn't have to tie the plants at all, but I will have to tie mine.

For my "little 'un's" I use the cheapo tomato supports sold everywhere. (Atwood's in Shawnee had them for 58 each)

For the "Big'un's", I like to use a small, bare cedar tree. I just choose one as tall as I can get with a diameter small enough that I can cut it with my loppers. I cut it as close to the ground as I can, and then strip the green off the branches, leaving them six to nine inches long. At the bottom, I leave the branches about six inches, so they can help "root" the post. Bury the wider end end in the ground when you plant the tomato, and as it grows, just weave it over and through the branches. No tying necessary. The cedar "posts" look natural, they're sturdy, and resistant to rot and insects at least for one season, and some have lasted two or three. Cedar is considered a weed tree to most farmers, so it shouldn't be hard to find someone to let you cut all you want out of their fence rows.

Hi oakleif! Long time no see! I use cages for EVERYTHING that I can. Even though my garden is fenced, the armadillos, skunks, rabbits, deer, etc. always manage to get in every now and then, and the cages help protect individual plants. Also, when I use them for melons (icebox-sized watermelons as well as cantaloupes, honeydews, muskmelons and casabas) I am able to squeeze more plants into the garden because they are growing vertically. And, yes, I do grow morning glories, purple hyacinth beans and scarlet runner beans on them too.

Sheepie, There are two advantages to pruning off the suckers, and I am not sure either one is as worthwhile for us in our climate as it might be for people up north who usually have more rain and more humidity than we do.

First, since tomatoes are so very susceptible to foliar disease, you have less disease if you have less foliage.

Second, if you want to produce big tomatoes (or, for that matter, big pumpkins or melons or whatever), by removing 'excess' foliage, you redirect the plant's energy into making larger fruit.

I hope that leaving the suckers on the plants works for you. I think it is so important to have all those leaves to serve as the 'factory' that keeps the plants growing and producing.

Sooonergrandmom, I think you will be very pleased with the results you get from cattle panels. People I know who use them rave about them.

Littledog, That is a creative use for cedar! I have an entry arbor to my garden that my DH and DS made of cedar from trees we were clearing off our property. I also have used them for fence posts and even for bean teepees.

Dawn

Dawn, have you ever found long-tailed skippers on your scarlet runner beans? This is a favorite for them, and they may be found in your area, but not mine. They are just gorgeous.

Skippers make a nest by folding a leaf over (leaffolder) and feeding from inside the leaf.

Susan

Susan,

I think I have seen long-tailed skippers here, but not in the last 2 or 3 years, and I didn't know what they were--only that I thought they were beautiful.

I have planted a lot of runner beans this year. I have the common scarlet runner beans and a white runner bean I got from Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds called Chaco Canyon. I'll keep my eyes open and let you know if long-tailed skippers show up.

Dawn

I will be soooooooooooooooooo envious if you see them, but I hope you do! They are the coolest butterfly, although skippers are kind of in a classification of their own. Much ado between the entomologists on whether they are a butterfly or moth, since they have attributes of both. Look for the rolled-up leaves. You will probably have some kind of skipper in them. They are funny looking caterpillars. Here's a photo attached.

Susan

Susan,

Thanks for the info on the skippers. I will watch for them on the runner beans. If they happen to show up, I will try to pry the digital camera out of DH's or DS's hands long enough to get a photo to post for you.

How is your verbena bonariensis? Mine are almost five feet tall (thanks to all this rain, I guess), are blooming like mad and have been covered in butterflies. They are so vigorous they are crowding out other stuff.

The hollyhocks are having a horrible year. They are dying one by one. I don't know if it is the excessive rain or cotton root rot again. They are fine one day, a little wilted the next and then dead by the following day. It happens about once every 3 or 4 years. I will probably try them in a different location next year.

Dawn

My VBs are doing fine. Not as tall as yours, but I pinched them back, too, to see how they do. Otherwise, there is usually one tall stalk with blooms at the top. Mine are probably 2' tall.

Hollyhocks are a different story - they are BEAUTIFUL! As well as the malvas. I have the biggest malva leaves this year that I've ever seen (mauritanica). The hollyhocks are putting up bloom stalks already. I have H. niger, the almost black one. I keep hoping to find PL cats on them, but haven't seen any. I don't think they use that plant in Oklahoma, so I'm trying some others. The worst problem I have with hollyhocks is leafminers. So, my foliage looks kind of Picasso'ish. They have really thrived this year.

Other exceptional plants this year are the honeysuckles, the hydrangea 'Nikko Blue', the Joe Pye Weed (eupatorium maculata 'Gateway'). I have so many stalks coming up from the JPW, it's not funny. I'm pinching it back, too, to see if it won't be so floppy. I think the pinching is encouraging more basal growth.

My Golden Hops are about 2' tall now. They sure grow fast, and the color is to die for. Also, the monarda (I can't remember if it's fistulosa or didyma - it's blooms are a hot pink/fuchsia color) is going GANGBUSTERS!

Not doing so well are a few of the hostas, altho 'Sum & Substance', 'Blue Angel', and 'Titanic' are gorgeous! My meadow rue (thalictrum flavum 'Illuminator') is 5' tall, for gosh sakes, and about to bloom! It's blooms are yellow.

I have so many blooms on my Clematis Jackmanii, it's not funny, and my "baby" clematis in the 4" pot is over 3' tall now! It seems that it likes its roots confined. I think it is C. violaceae.

Blooms all over the oakleaf hydrangea, the itea virginica, and I even have blooms on my spigelia! I just bought it this year and was told it would take a couple of years to bloom! Ha!

So, what's doing REALLY well in your garden, Dawn?

Susan

Susan,

Pretty much everything is doing really well, except for the hollyhocks.

The David Austin English Roses are blooming their heads off. They have so many blossoms this year that I can hardly keep up with the deadheading. The oriental poppies are heavy with blooms this year, although the rain and wind strips the petals off most days.

The honeysuckle on the arbor leading into the veggie garden is a huge monster this year. I guess I will have to cut it back some, but I don't want to. I am afraid it is going to bring down the arbor, which is made of native cedar branches. I am hoping the arbor can hang in there until the hummers have left, at least, and then we can cut back the honeysuckle and build a new, taller, sturdier arbor.

All of the hollies and southern wax myrtles are growing like weeds thanks to the rain. My vitex is blooming and attracting hummers and butterflies. The climbing roses in my butterfly garden out back have more blooms than they have ever had before. They are just some old red climbers I bought at Wal-Mart years ago. The larkspur has been slow to bloom. I guess it didn't like the cold weather. Now that it is blooming, though, it is gorgeous and quite tall. I have larkspur in the butterfly bed outside the kitchen window and also in the border around the veggie garden.

The Texas Star Hibiscus is off to a late start, but is finally growing. The American Cross Vines and Madame Galens Trumpet Creeper were really set back by the drought. The two Cross Vines did bloom for the hummer migration, though, but the trumpet creeper is just pitiful looking.

The blue-flowered veronica is really putting on a show. All my salvias are blooming and looking quite lovely, and attracting lots of pollinators. The chamomile is trying to take over the onion bed. A visiting cat (his name is 'Yellow Cat' and he lives everywhere and nowhere, freely roaming the countryside. I feed him whenever he shows up here.) rolled all over the catmint and crushed it to smithereens, but it is blooming in spite of him. The chives have about finished blooming, and a few onions have bolted and are about to flower, probably as a result of the late cold spells. Well, not so much the late cold spells as the shock of going from hot to cold to hot to cold over and over again. I like it when the onions flower. They attract lots of beneficials. I plant tons of onions, so if a few bolt, it is no big deal.

Most of the tomato plants, corn, beans, peppers, pumpkins, squash and herbs are doing fine. The tomato plants at the northeastern corner of the garden where the drainage is poorest are really in bad shape. I may have to replace them, but I have plenty of 2' tall back-up tomato plants in 1-gallon containers just waiting for a chance to go into the ground.

My flowering currant has put up tons of suckers, so I am going to dig them up and put them around the guinea pen/house and around the chicken coop/pen. Two American Beautyberries have come up in a garden pathway, so I need to dig them up and put them somewhere.

The cannas and the 200 billion 4 o'clocks are growing quite nicely. All the annual vines and flowers that reseed, like cleome, zinnias, etc. have sprouted and are fighting for space in the border.

With all the rain, everything is quite happy and growing well. After a couple of drought years, we needed rain this season, and we have obviously had it. The water lilies are happy because their water level is back to normal. When we got 4" of rain this week, the pond collected a lot of run-off and the water lily flowers were temporarily under water until they could grow a little and get above the new water level.

My peach and plum trees are just covered in fruit. The fruit is so heavy that I am afraid it is going to break the limbs. I have thinned and thinned and thinned and thinned and thinned. I bet I have removed 20 to 30 peaches or plums for every one that I have left on the trees. A good fruit year like this doesn't happen too often, so I am thrilled. Our last really good fruit year was 2004.

All the cool season pasture grasses are setting seed heads. The wildflowers are huge and thick this year, and both the Indian Paintbrush and Texas Bluebonnets have had a very long bloom period and show no signs of slowing down. The sumac in the butterfly bed is about to bloom, but the ones down by the road aren't that far along yet.

The nasturtiums that I always use as companion plantings in the veggie garden are blooming in delightful shades of reds and corals and yellows. They are always happiest in the years we have a cool, wet spring.

I have good-sized tomatoes on several plants, although the high humidity is impeding some pollination. I have had one small tomato worm so far. I harvested 3 more tomatoes from a Better Bush plant in a container this week. We're having BLTs tomorrow. The race is now on between the following tomatoes to produce the first ripe fruit that is NOT a Better Bush mater: Snow White, Black Prince, Black Krim, Early Girl, Celebrity and Kimberly.

The lawn grass and pasture weeds are growing like weeds, and it is so wet we can't mow often enough to keep it as neat as we like.

For some reason, wild grapes are coming up everywhere....but nowhere that I want them and can allow them to stay, so I've been yanking them out. The wild blackberries are covered in fruit, but we usually leave those for the wild critters.

We have tons and tons of caterpillars everywhere and I have no clue what most of them are. I guess when the butterflies start appearing, then I'll know what I have.

One strange thing....and I AM NOT complaining, is that we don't have a lot of 'bad bugs' in the garden yet. There are no aphids yet, no potato bugs, no cucumber beetles. OK, I have seen some corn earworms and cutworms, but I scoop them up in the trowel when I find them and take them to the chickens. I am starting to wonder what the beneficial insects are eating. I am seeing lots of lady bugs, as usual.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. Of course, the next time I walk outdoors I'll think of 101 different plants that I failed to mention. lol

Dawn

The thing I have that is worse this year is the slugs, as I mentioned earlier. That's about it.

I know what you mean about honeysuckle. Mine is 12' tall, growing up the lath connected to the house. The trunk on it is as big as Arnold Schwarzenegger's biceps.

I just planted a new Swamp Hibiscus (Texas Star), and it must surely love all this rain. My other hibiscus is another matter, and am taking a "wait and see" approach on it. The last time it went thru a wet period, I lost all of the branches, though I didn't lose the plant. The new sasafrass tree must be enjoying it, too. All of these like lots of water.

I gotta get for now, but will be in later.

Susan

Susan, I love Texas Star.

My common swamp mallows are loving the moisture too.

I hope your sassafras tree does well. If you have luck with it, I may plant one next year.

Dawn

They are great for attracting wildlife, Dawn (Sasafrass)! And they are a pretty tree, too. And, if you are into herbs, you can have your own source of Sasafrass tea! HeeHee!

So far, mine is lovin' all this rain. Course, it, the Ironweed (vernonia), the swamp hibiscus, button bush, and the liatris are all loving the full sun, wet area right now. We'll see when it starts to get drier in the year. The vernonia I got is augustifolia and is a shorter plant than most of the vernonias. It gets about 3-4' tall, rather than the typical 6-10' tall. But, it is beloved by butterflies as a nectar source. And, it's a pretty plant.

Susan

Susan,

With all the plants that you have planted to attract butterflies, are you seeing more and more butterflies every year?

I'm just curious. We have tons and tons of all kinds of butterflies this year, including some that I am not sure I have ever seen here before.

I guess what I am wondering is how much harder is it to attract a variety of butterflies in an urban setting?
DH and I were talking the other day about how many people are planting specifically to attract butterflies and hummers these days, and he asked me if people like you were successful in attracting the butterflies, or if your efforts were frustrated by....say, neighbors who spray toxins into the air, etc.

I told him I'd ask you and see what you thought. I know that you DO have butterflies and moths because you tell us about them. Do you have them on a consistent basis, or is it hit and miss? Do you have 'enough' to satisfy you, or do you hope to have 'more, more, more'? Tee hee--think I know the answer to that question already.

I hope you are having a lot this year. The butterflies these last few days have been a feast for our eyes. :)

Dawn

Well, the last two years, particularly late in the year, around August-November, there have been more butterflies than ever in our neighborhood. My neighbors have even commented on the number of butterflies they've seen! I just kind of chuckle to myself (tee hee hee).

But, it is harder to attract them in an urban setting, when their habitat is usually prairie, either tall or short grass, woodsy areas, and wet areas, and not an urban garden. Slowly but surely, they are stopping in more often. My neighbors around me usually let their backyards go wild, too, so maybe that helps as well.

My friend Linda, in Kingfisher, though, just gets tons and tons and tons of butterflies in her garden that she grows specifically for butterflies. In fact, she got pipevine swallowtails this week for the first time ever! Hers have been planted about 3 years now. It takes awhile for the vines and/or plants to grow, and then to populate them with the butterflies you're trying to attract. But, she lives in a smaller, rural town. Here in the city, it's a different story.

Last year, she helped me get started with Monarchs, Gulf Fritillaries and Silvery Checkerspots. Once I had a few eggs, it was Katie Bar the Door. I had Monarchs everywhere, and raised 100+ myself.

I've had Black Swallowtails for several years, as well as Giant Swallowtails - but in small numbers. I don't get the HUGE numbers like you guys in more rural areas. But, if I had more, I wouldn't have the food supply for them either.

One thing for sure. Once they find your garden, they WILL be back next year. It's like they have some kind of built-in radar that brings them back year after year.

I had to do a lot of things, though, like I had to quit using even the most innocuous pesticide - like Safer soap for instance. I cannot believe that 6 years ago I was using BT on my cleome to get rid of the Cabbage White caterpillars! Oh, my - I was a butterfly exterminator! I had to plant host plants. You'll get a few butterflies with just nectar plants, but with host plants you get so many more butterflies.

It has been a work in progress (still is), a lesson in patience (still is), and the best experience of my life! I would not want a garden without butterflies and moths - ever! Or, the other critters that come along here and there, too. I appreciate so much more in life by undertaking this personal journey with God's creatures. I feel a connection with the earth, the air, the sky, the water, the wind that I never felt before. Do you know what I mean? My spirit was never fed at all by working in an office. But, gardening and especially butterfly gardening, fills my spirit with such love and a realization that there must be something more out there beyond this physical existence with which I connect at a deeper level.

Oh, I am getting gooey, huh? Where else are the butterflies going to go but the city, along with many other of God's creatures? We have driven them into the city by taking away their resources, their food, their water, their homes. If I can provide just a small, tiny area to help them along, then I am doing my part. What would it be like if we all did that?

Susan

Susan,

I understand exactly how you feel! I think the deep connection with the earth, air, sky, water, wind and all of God's creatures is exactly WHY so many of us garden. Now, it may not be the reason we became gardeners in the first place, but as that connection between our souls and the natural worlds grows and deepens, I think it is the reason we continue gardening, and also the reason we become obsessed with it.

I am glad you are having success in bringing back butterflies to your area. And, what would it be like if everyone provided a small area to help the butterflies along? Well, it would definitely be a better world, wouldn't it? When I read Sara Stein's books, first NOAH'S GARDEN and then PLANTING NOAH'S GARDEN, my awareness of what a difference we could make really reached a new level. Since then, I have tried to do everything I can to be a part of the solution and not the problem.

Even when we lived in the city in Fort Worth, we had a lot of wildlife around us. Moving here, though, increased the amount of wildlife we see a million times over. I love it, I love it, I love it. I don't believe I could ever bear to move back to a city and live with less wildlife.

And when I look back at the time when I used Bt, I just cringe. It is hard for me to use ANY pesticide whatsoever now, whether it is chemical or organic. I just can't justify using things like Bt or Neem or pyrethrins any more.
So what if I have some holes in leaves.....or if my pentas get eaten down to the ground? I'd rather have the wild critters any day of the week.

Dawn

Susan:

You know what else sassafrass is good for? Gumbo. Mmm....

After reading "Posted by dragonladytoo Z7/OK (My Page) on
Tue, May 1, 07 at 16:54
I've used the cattle panels for years. I bend them into a arc shape and stick each of the ends in the ground. I tie up the 'maters as they grow - by the end of the summer, they form a tomatoe tunnel :)", I have a cuople of questions.

How far apart are the ends in the ground and how high is the tunnel? How do you get to the tomatos hanging near the ground inside the tunnel?

When planting tomatos on either side of a catttle panel, how far apart are the plants? Is one foot OK for plants that usually get recommended 18" to 24" when growing them UP a fence panel?

Hank

Thanks, Dawn, you know you're an inspiration to all of us here, too!

Droogie - you're gonna have to give me that recipe for gumbo!

I haven't planted my little tomato plants yet, but they already have tomatoes on them! Yike! I best get busy.

Susan

Susan,

Once you get them in the ground, they will grow like crazy. Except for it being a little wet, this is ideal weather for them. Sunny here today, and no rain! Yippee! I will spend my afternoon mowing and weedeating.

Harvested tomatoes #7, 8 and 9 off the Better Bush plants, so it will be BLTs for dinner tonight or maybe lunch tomorrow. In the spring we are always so excited to have fresh home-grown tomatoes that we practically overdose on BLT sandwiches. lol Actually, any time we have BLTs we usually have enough tomato to put some in the salad too.

By the way, I have been seeing minor feeding damage on the tomato plants, so I have hornworms somewhere. I just haven't spotted the actual horned monsters yet....not that it matters, I just let them do their thing, and it NEVER damages a plant enough that it is a problem.

We have had gazillions of swallowtails, checkerspots of all kinds, monarchs and sulphurs, and lots of tiny whites and blues for several weeks now. This week I am seeing increasing numbers of question marks, buckeyes and mourning cloaks. I love spring.

Dawn

Dawn, I bought those Bonnie plants that are in the pots you can plant directly in the ground, pot and all. However, I have been tearing off the material because I am not very trusting that it will totally break down in the soil.

HD is selling a lot of things in these pots this year. I'm sure it is some kind of compressed peat material, but I know a lot of people have problems with the little "peat pots" they buy to plant seeds in.

The material is really easy to peel off, and I just use it to mulch the ground around the plant.

Susan

Susan,

I have noticed that more and more plants are coming in those pots. I do think they are compressed peat. I start some seedlings in peat pots and they can be HARD as a rock if the pots get dry. So, before I set them out in the garden, I use a knife to cut an X in the bottom. That way at least the roots can creep out of the bottom of the peat pot if it is slow to break down.

I hope the weather is sunny and dry this weekend for y'all. It is looking pretty good for us, even though the NWS radio station says that the area has a 100% chance of rain today. Whenever they say that, it doesn't rain, so I am expecting a good day. Now, if the NWS had said we had a 15% chance of rain, I guarantee you it would be pouring here right now.

Dawn

Now droogie, my neighbors are jealous
Of tomatoes I grow on a trellis
Diseases are rare
And yields are not spare
So I'm the envy of all of the fellas

A cheap way I have found is stringing twine between steel post placed 8-10 feet apart. every 8-10" up on the post I tie two strings. as the plants grow I place the plants between the strings, continuing up the post with other layers of string, as the plants grow.