Hee....nope, no "downside" that I've ever seen in 20 yrs! Absolutely one of my top 3 perennials. I know some talk about it's "rampant" seeding, but I found it a gentle seeder and certainly had no lack of friends lining up for the seedlings!

After deadheading, it's rebloom is just about as good as the first spring bloom, which is rare with perennials! Good looking foliage and an EARLY bloomer to Oct.

Hi, I don't have experience, but out of curiosity looked up the plant. It's really attractive. The below referenced site has some helpful descriptive information. I reminds me somewhat of butterfly bush, but the flowers emerge in a different style. I'll watch for opinions as I'm in the same zone.

Candy

Here is a link that might be useful: plant profile

I tried to grow it at our last house but all three plants just rotted away eventually. I think they like it very well drained and somewhat on the alkaline side. I always wanted to grow it because I've seen gorgeous pictures of it, and it seems to attract beneficial insects, but I guess I'll just have to admire it from afar (sniff)

Good luck!
Ellen

I had to look it up, I've never heard of it, but it's very pretty!

I have never grown it but I do know it has been grown in New England gardens for a very long time. Old Time Gardens, the book by Alice Morse Earle, talks about it a lot. It is supposed to have a fragrance. Does it?

I tried this twice from seed and failed both times. I've recently been considering either trying from seed again or just buying a plant, and as a matter of fact was looking at it in a catalog just today. After this thread, I think I will indeed try, try again.

Thanks!

:)
Dee

Uh-oh--the peril of common names. The valerian I mentioned is Valeriana officinalis, native to England and long used in herbal medicine and in old gardens. The subject of this thread is Centranthus rubra (as I should have noticed!), a completely different plant but called, among other things (just looked it up), red-spur valerian. Sorry if I misled anyone.

I had Centranthus in a cutting garden but it was always rather short lived 2-3 years. I believe it may have have something to do with my very acidic soil. You may want to read up on PH preference. Other than that it was care free. Good luck. Katy

I love centhranus ruber, which I grew from seed about 9 years ago. I lost almost all of it in the awful winter before last, but have recently spotted a few seedlings that I'm trying to rescue from the crowded area where they were growing.

Never saw a down-side to this plant - great foliage, texture, flowers, an excellent color! It always looked healthy, too, which is much appreciated in my garden.

I also like Centranthus ruber. The one problem that I have had with it is that contrary to what you may read, the cottontail rabbits like it as well. I bought 4 small trial plants this year only to have the rabbits eat two back to the ground, maul one and miss the fourth. I don't think I'll try any more. If the rabbits like it, where we live it's not worth trying to fight them.

Hi Mayalena of the plum torte. Made two today, and both are gone.
I planted this in front my baptisa, because it is tall. It never bloomed after its first bloom, but it is just a beginner. I have high hopes for it, although it may not get as much sun as it needs. I'm glad to hear your enthuiastic report.
How long did you say it was in the ground?
It does have some rep. as being a vigorous grower and seeder.
Regarding common "valerian" (valerian officialis) that great big ole weedy thing, I think it is smashing the first few weeks of bloom. The smell is to die for. When it started looking unkempt, I chopped it down. I hope it comes back next year.

Look it up if you don't know it.

Hi Marie of the plum torte fellowship!
My centranthus ruber has been in just since last spring, but it has grown beautifully in a hot, full-sun, dry bordering-the-driveway spot. It is still blooming -- going strong now for 4 months -- but is definitely not tall -- maybe 2' at most. It started as a Bluestone baby. I've transplanted and divided one plant, hoping to spread it around. I'm guessing that yours might need more sun? Wish I had looked for it when I was traipsing around your beautiful garden.

It was lying down flat on the ground, as if it had taken a muscle relaxent. It probably does need more sun.

Hello Mayalena,
I SO agree with you. In our seaside gardens, C. ruber lives very well, what with the soil pH and the drainage.
I KNOW I have a great photo of it with other plants the first year I Winter Sowed it from seed (2002)...somewhere. Nonetheless, I lost mine to a savage winter and bought a carefully grown seedling which is doing quite well.
In rereading some of by Booknotes, I came across a "mention" from the wonderful, yet opinionated, Christopher Lloyd, who writes in his book, Garden Flowers, that Centranthus ruber, "Red Valerian" has a thick root system that is "outstandingly destructive", flowering in June. I think he talks about the one I have (light red) as, "a rather nasty pinkish red". He instructs cutting back to the ground after first flowering and will then flower a second time in September. (Well I didn't cut back my plants and they bloomed anyway in Sep-Oct!).
Isn't it wonderful that we can still grow plants we don't know?
Best,
PP

Hi PP. What, I wonder, is an "outstandinglyl destructive" root system? Yikes! I wonder if I want that?

Hello and Good Morning Mayalena,
Well, I wouldn't worry about the piercing opinions (and most times that's what they are) of Mr. Lloyd. As it happens, I have had no experience of what he speaks of, and was also plenty mad as he described the color of C. r. as a "nasty pinkish red". He's the designer who shocked all the PGP (Pastel Garden People), with his arresting red gardens and red flowers. He really does get my blood boiling, by his writing at times - but I gather that's what keeps my body warm when I'm doing my chilly cold (1100) bulb plantings, weeding, cutting back, and designing this season!
At least for Z6a, which you are similar to, I have grown, without any trouble, C. r., Bronze Fennel, and Verbena bonariensis together with great results and no troubles.
The root system in truth, I have neither heard of before this reading, or experienced first hand.
Suffice it to say that Centranthus ruber is a suberb Butterfly plant, and can be propagated very successfully from root cuttings.
When next we meet up with Mr. C. Lloyd, or his Head Gardener, Fergus Garrett we should ask what was meant by this remark.
Best,
PP

Deb - I got seeds from Thompson and Morgan a few years ago - it's extremely easy from seed and does self-sow a bit.

PP - I love Chris Lloyd's writing, and have no problem with the fact that I sometimes disagree with him. He's certainly not one to mince words!

The "brickishness" of the color DOES need to be taken into account. If you were to place it among red flowers, or certain blues, you might be disappointed by its unusual tone. I feel the same way about Agastache rupestris, Sunset Hyssop. It's a beautiful color, and although it's not the same as red valerian, it's similar in the way it doesn't compliment certain other colors. And I'm not one to shy away from jarring combinations, it's more that this particular color gets defeated by being combined with the wrong partners. I know there are better terms for this, I just don't know what they are.

All in all, red valerian is a great plant. I've seen it for sale only a few times, and I just can't imagine why that is so.

DiggingTheDirt -
So glad you love C.L. I do too. Have read: Succession Planting, and Garden Flowers from Seed. Have list of many more. including those he's written the Forward to (Wayne Winterrowd's, and the GREAT Sarah Raven).
I cannot wait to read the Lloyd & Beth Chatto bk, "Dear Friend and Gardener".
He is wonderful, but what a marvelously biting opinion...good for the plant soul!
Incidently, if you haven't read this already, another "Lloydian-type" writer who's book is fantastic is, Allan Paterson's 2003 bk, "Best Trees for your Garden". Wonderful text and photos and to boot, won the British Garden Writers Guild Award for the "Reference Book of the Year" Â 2004.
I'm sorry Mayalena for going "off topic".
Best,
PP

I have it in sun/PSH locations and love it. I've lost plants that I transplanted in wetter shadier spots. Centranthus reseeds a little for me, but one year the winter was milder and little seedlings came up in a gravel path I have. Here is a photo from the Provence area of France in late May a couple years ago-it was growing in rocks everywhere-hot, dry, sunny conditions suit it just fine:

Monique -
what an absolutely wonderful photo! I'm going to move my Centranthus now.
Best,
PP

I'd LIKE to move mine to the south of France too, but it's not in the cards. At least not this year.

Great photo! Because of its lush foliage, I always assumed that c. ruber wanted somewhat rich soil - if that makes any sense! Oh, how plants can fool us.

Monique ~

Ditto on the photo. It's great! I have seen something like it on walls in Italy, too, but never knew its name. Someone told us its common name was wallflower or wall flower (sp? not sure). Do you think it's the same plant?

~ Hilda

My centranthus ruber has just quit blooming. It went from late June/early July to mid-October...pretty good! I will try winter sowing some seeds, just to ensure next year's blooms. Deb in Boston -- I wish I knew how to collect seeds, and then I certainly would share some. Maybe I'll learn that next year?

Oh Mayalena! What a teaser you are! If you have ANYTHING left on the plant that resembles a dead flower, then break them off and plant very shallowly. You may get some lovely surprises come spring. I read somewhere that they propagate through root cuttings similar to a poppy. The photos of them growing in Southern France suggest that they require herb-like conditions -- dry, dry, dry! Good luck on your planting and if you incinuate (sp?) that you have a live plant next year, I'm crusing by to get a cutting!

How tall was your plant this year? Was it in full sun. You better take care of it.... Was I threatening enough??? (only kidding!)

Deb

Deb -
I think I will try winter sowing this plant, in case my existing plants don't make it thru the winter...tho I think they will. Why should they not? If the plants in my yard return, you are welcome to a cutting next spring; otherwise, if I have extra seedlings from this winter's attempts, I'll happily share. Just remind me!
C

Mayalena,

Yippee! I was hoping you would offer a cutting! Don't worry, I will remind you next spring... If I find some seeds somewhere I may try to WS myself. Looks like we had a frost last night..... argh. But it will be 70's this Friday and Saturday. YAY.

Hi all-

Sorry for jumping late into this thread, but I just wanted to say that if you find Centranthus' color difficult, try it with Alchemilla or cardoons. Yum! In the part of California I'm from, with mild, wet winters and NO rain all summer long, Centranthus naturalizes (which only true Mediterraneans can). Also, I wonder if Mr. Lloyd's reference to the "destructive roots" refers to it growing in stone walls? At any rate, I'm going to try it next year here in frigid zone 4.

It's incredibly easy from seed, if you can find seed for sale - I got mine from T&M, but it was long ago.

PP, thanks for the reading suggestions - I love to find new authors. I just realized that I've never read the foreword to WW's Annuals for Connoisseurs, though it's one of my favorite books.

If you have the book "The Well-Tended Perennial Garden" by Tracy Sabato-Aust (sp)you can see a beautiful photo of centranthus ruber on the cover. At least I think it is C.R. Is it?

My experience has been mostly good. Bought some plants about five years ago (they were "Epic" brand transplants) and put them in my only sun-baked corner. We are mostly clay sand here (woods is clay loam) and I topdress with compost and wood chips. That may have rotted them out, they seem to love growing among the stones and sand in their native mediterranean climate. Lost all of them 2 years ago, after 3 years of vigorous growth they just pooped out and left a huge dead rootstock, did not reseed themselves, now looking to replace them. I went to every garden and perennial store last year and no one had them. I will try seed, they are supposed to be very easy and I'd like dozens of them. I did dig out the dead rootstocks and it was somewhat of a chore, but no worse than taking out a small shrub.

Some of us adore the dull brick pink color ;) I have a traffic-cone yellow house with indigo and terra cotta trim, I avoid straight reds, blues, and yellows in the garden--these are just fantastic!!!

Goes well interplanted between iris...will keep blooming after the iris are just foliage-only. Also looks fabulous interplanted with "spritzy flowers" such as agastaches and coreopsis Early Sunrise, gaura, and perennial blue salvias.

Thank you for the beautiful photo of the South of France. I just wanted to add that two years ago we visited SW France and Spain, and saw it growing everywhere in profusion in the fields and in people's gardens. On the mountainsides its frequent companion was the startling deep blue echium (vipers bugloss). When we stopped for lunch a I noticed it in the restaurant courtyard disguising the tall legs of a red rose bush in flower.
We learned that in Barcelona it is called the flower of Saint George, who is the patron saint of that city. Saint George's day is an important holiday in Barcelona, and to celebrate it you are supposed to give your sweetheart presents of books and roses. Of course Saint George's flower is featured as a prominent companion plant in the magnificent Barcelona rose garden.

As far as the color, driving around Calalan country, we observed that it blooms in many, many beautiful gradations of pink, reddish, and white. Christopher Lloyd is a little silly to desparage this noble plant, in my opinion.

I have to admit I have been trying to grow the white form for some years, but without much succes. It is apparently too hot/wet here at the wrong season, not to mention acid.

I am appending a link that gives an idea of the variety of colors of this flower.

Yellow St. John'swort, the midsummer flower (hypericum), fares better.

Hi Monarda -- You got me wondering about St. George and when St. George Day is. So, here's some useless (but interesting info about it.) With Valentine's Day coming up maybe we should adopt this system...... Taken from the net of course,
St. George's Day - April 23rd

St. George's day is celebrated in and around Catalonia.

St. George's Day has been celebrated since 1436. St. George is the patron Saint of Catalonia

Catalonia : In Catalonia St. George's day coincides with the Fair of the Book and the Rose. On this day every man offers a rose to his loved one (wife or fiancée), and in return she gives him a book. The book is in memory of Cervantes. This custom was started in 1926, to commemorate Cervantes death (authour of "Don Quiote").

Barcelona : Book and Rose Fair. The St. James Square and main streets are lined with stalls selling books of all shapes and sizes. There is also an exhibition of roses in the patio of the Palace of the Autonomous Government as a symbol of the arrival of Spring

Sant Climent Sescebes : Procession to the magic rock According to a local legend there is a magic rock near the village that leads to a huge treasure and the spell may only be broken on the night of St. Georges day. The people from the village form a procession and bless twelve loaves of bread, then they share them out among the crowd.
The Legend.
The 23rd April is a date that has always been linked, either directly or indirectly, to literature and popular traditions.

The Catalan knights that set off towards the Orient could never have guessed the repercussions that their tales would have with relation to a local saint: St. George. Later the tale would be changed to fit in with the mediaeval traditional Knight in shining armor fighting evil.

The legend that was born is infamous: St. George fighting the wicked dragon that held the princess captive. Finally St. George kills the dragon and on the spot where the dragons blood was spilled a rose grew as a symbol of love and friendship.

But what has really given importance to this date is that it is now considered to be the "World Book Day".

The role played by the "Renaixença" in the resurrection of the "Jocs Florals"

Thanks to the insistence of Antoni de Bofarull among others, the literary competitions were revived in Catalonia in 1859. It was from then on that there began to appear new authors and ideologists and there was an important increase in the number of newspapers published as well as political and ideological works.

After the interruption of the "Jocs Florals" because of the Civil War they began to become very popular again from 1978. The idea of these annual literary competitions was basically to stimulate young people to cultivate and take a delight in the Catalan literature and language. Ever since then this tradition has been celebrated and is actually one of the most important in Catalonia, it has gradually spread to the Spanish language and also to the English language.

In 1996 this Catalan tradition became an International one, taking one step more towards the unification of peoples all over the world, even the mythical rose was given in the United States, Japan and France as well as other countries when a book was bought.
Why this date?
April 23rd was not only famous because of the legend of St. George, but also because it is the anniversary of the death of two great writers:: CERVANTES and SHAKESPEARE.

These grand writers have passed into history for their great works, becoming an important symbol in their respective countries.

One way of acknowledging the work of these genii was to name this date as being the Book Day, and so it happened like that. On 23rd April books are sold in the streets on long stalls prepared specially for the grand occasion. Many people take advantage of this day, even though they may not normally be regular readers, to buy and enjoy a book. It is one way of encouraging people to read.

This is also a popular date to launch new novels onto the market and many authors take advantage of the fact in order to promote their latest book.
Last, but not least, there is nothing nicer than lovers exchanging a book and a rose.

Carlos Estrada
St. Paul's School, Barcelona

------Fascinating!

My plant was doing fine that I planted last spring, but now I am wondering if it is dead. It is completely brown, with no sign of life. Does it ever look this way in January? I live in Georgia, and it is planted in full sun with very adequate drainage. I was told when I bought this ceranthus rubber that it needed to be well drained.

Red valerian, Centranthus ruber (note spelling), is a herbaceous perennial, meaning it dies to the ground in winter and comes back to life in spring. And it tends to self-seed rampantly when happily sited, to the point where it is considered invasive along much of the west coast.

I bought 4 Red Valerian. I want butterflies in my garden. 3 are ok, I think, and one is not good but nowhere near death. I am in the UK so was wondering if our massively wet weather is doing it. It killed 4 of my Mauve Bowels. Gutted. Just hope my Valerian is OK. Any advice anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Not from me; not a single one made it through a typically damp New England winter.