Ken - I see one of your storage boxes is a Pampers box. Did you keep that around to remind why you are not going to have another little one? :-)

standard shop lamps ... one small reflector.. one large.. covers the whole tray ....4 forty watt plain old basic lamps per level ... kept 2 to 3 inches from the plants ... so they have to be adjustable with #16 hardware chain and teacup hooks ...

{{gwi:1096187}}

I do alot of reading but do not respond very often. But Ken you have sparked some interest for me.
So do you enclose the area with plastic or something to keep the heat in. How long are the lights on? What about watering. This is all new to me and I would love to try this.
Kim

My seed growing space is also a semi-enclosed area of my basement, temps stay between 65-68 degrees, heated by the ducts running across the ceiling. The lights never generate enough heat to warm up the space as much as seedlings would like. I'm thinking of adding heat mats. Have you ever used this space before, Ken?

well calico .. glad to have stimulated you to jump in ...

no enclosure in plastic.. gets too wet over time ... it is said that air movement is good for the plants... and some even use fans for such ....

8 transformers generate the heat ..... trust me ... i think i misspoke in the first paragraph ...8 lamps ... 16 lights ... 4 lights per shelf ....

lights are on 16 hours with 2 on/off flashes during the eight off .. it has been suggested that this 'tricks' the plants into thinking the lights are on 24 hours .... while saving you 8 hours on the electric bill ...

watering ....keep the soil damp .... repot often as they grow.. and make sure you throw away 999/1000 plain old green ones .... culling 'nothing' plants is necessary .. as march rolls around you just don't need all those plants ....

i do have a heating mat ... 72 degrees i think .. will check when i get around to cleaning it .. i only use it to aid sprouting .... unnecessary after that when all the lights are lit ....

i have never had to add heat .. so i don't know what to recommend in that regard ...

i have never used this space ... i wonder about enough air movement .... i may need a fan to keep it all moving ...

for the neophyte ... i would suggest start small ... you can build a light stand next year if you like it all ...
next question????

ken

I keep my house at 63' in the winter, is it going to be impossible for me to get my seeds to germinate at that temp? I have a tray of them on my deep freeze in the laundry room, somewhat warmer in there I would think at least when the dryer is going, I leave my light on there all the time, I could actually build shelves above the deepfreeze just for seed growing and have been thinking of doing that, if my one tray turns out well this year....

Do you have florescent lights over them, micke? They need lights a few inches over them. That keeps them warm as well as giving them the necessary light. You could always put something on one or more sides to hold a little more heat in, but it might not be necessary.

Lights will definitely heat the area up about five degrees. You can germinate at those temps, it will just taken longer to germinate them. During germination, a cover over the tray will also help keep them moist and warmer. You can also put the container on top of a cabinet or refrigerator while they germinate since they do not need light.

If at all possible, use a fan. The air movement strengthens the plants and helps to prevent damp off.

Ken, Where did you get your tray's? I have used the bottom of dog pens, plastic, but only have 2.
Paws

Hi Ken... inquiring minds want to know... what hosta seeds will you be sowing? Did you do any special crosses or keep track of pod/pollen parents or all they all OP? Just curious which of your many prized streakers will get their seeds sowed...

Buff

Ken, I am a guilty party when it comes round to culling. It would be educational if you can give me an insight into your culling technique. What criteria do you employ to cull hosta seedlings as their variegation only surfaces after a number of years. Is there any secret formula to bring about a successful cull?
I heard from my roseholic friends that you cull rose seedlings by observing their resistence to diesease, flower color and form and the degree of frangrance present. Your expertise here will be greatly appreciated.

hey all ... i am going to try to do this in sequence .. if i start skipping all around .... i will miss things ... so culling will not be covered for months ...

seeds are all OP .... from all my streakers .. and some neat others.. like deep blue sea, Niagara falls, golden gate ...

heat ... i did remember that i got my heat pad.. believe it or not.. at a beer making store.. go figure on that ... as noted.. i will use it to warm soil for germination .... i don't know as of today if i will use it beyond that ...

as for ambient heat ... the house at 63 .. zowee ... you are brave .. .lol ...

lets step back and think about what the hosta do outside ... 63 sounds about consistent with my late may .. the plants are expanding .... but the issue is soil temp i would think ... think about the effect of the sun on the soil ... though the temp might only be 63 .. i would bet a buck the soil could be a lot warmer on sunny days .... so if you house.. or your basement is this cold .. i think that if you want to do a good job .. you will have to think about getting the temps up ..... especially soil temp .... i doubt the leaves care what the temp is.. its the root temp that matters ....

also think about when you might see volunteers in the garden .. you do not see them in early spring.. it appears they will need a higher SOIL temp to germinate.. and grow...

also ... soil temperature will be an issue when the lights aren't on .... i usually run the lights all night long when the furnace kicks down to 62 ... and have my off time during the day when the furnace is on ... so the lights moderate the temperature fluctuations ....

i cant really solve your problems regarding temperature for each of you .. i only offer suggestions as to what parameters you need to work with ...

if it were cold in the house.. i might consider tenting the setup ... but it would be a big tent .... like a mini greenhouse in the basement .... even a plain old 100 watt light bulb inside a tent will add heat ... if you think it all out.. you don't need to spend all that much money on stuff .... but working with water and electricity means you HAVE TO BE SAFE ABOUT IT ALL ....

the lights are hung with #16 hardware chain ... as noted .. and are adjustable .. they must ALWAYS be within 2 or 3 inches of the plants ... BUT IF YOU PLAN ON LEAVING FOR A FEW DAYS ... you have to adjust the lights up .. or the hosta will grow into them and scorch ...

a dollar store thermometer.. is a good addition to the growing area.. so you can keep track and make adjustments ... i can tell you right now.. on a 37 degree morning.. my cement room is holding at about 65 degrees ... when i finish putting the stand all together ... i will run the lights all night .. and see what the temp is in the area .... guessing just doesn't work ... knowledge is power ... go figure on that ... lol .... and i want to start thinking about these things BEFORE I START THE SEEDS ....

link to trays is below ... i built this setup to grow violets a lifetime ago ... the down side to the trays is that i can not put nursery flats across the short way ... but i only use those for sprouting ... as you will see later .... the upside is that spills are contained ... away from electricity .. since they are stacked on top of each other ...

culling.. we will cover that in a few months .... the early answer is BE BRUTAL.... it is my position .. that if you focus the bifocals .. even a one inch plant has all the traits it will have in 5 years .... there will be waves.. red... streaks ...

plain old greens ... must die .... maybe if it has a lot of red .. or some nice waves.. it will survive the first cull ... if i plant Niagara falls ... and i get a yellow out of it .. with a wave.. now that might be cool ... if i plant golden gate .. and i get a blue out of it .. etc ... i am looking for something unique ...

the point of doing your own crosses is to have a goal in mind ... once you establish a goal ... then culling is very easy .. because .. only the ones that further the goal are kept.. the downside to growing OP seeds .... is that you have no goal .. so you think you have to save them all ... that by definition is a nightmare.. been there.. done that .. lol ...

a goal ... lets say i want a manhattan that is yellow ... i would take manhattan pollen to a good yellow plant ... and try to get a corragated yellow.. so every seedling that comes from those pods that isnt yellow. .. will die ... culling is easy when you have goals ...

too much white ... they are called TERMINAL WHITES .... you may get them to live in a perfect setting in your little Eden ... but they will die ... so why fool with them for months ...

this is enough for now... i hope i answered all the questions above this post .... be patient ... we will try to cover everything ... we have nothing else to do all winter.. lol

gotta run ... so forgive me if i cant reread the whole thing ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: tray info

hey ...

bear with me here .... any nice days are spent outside .... and that isnt going to last too much longer ....

anyway ... cold jerry ... lol .. jerry_br ... lol .... stopped by and bought me lunch .. so i would show him the setup .... boy is he geaked.. lol ... gotta meet him.. to know how funny that is ... just kidding jerry ....

next step is to get the timer on it.. and start learning the temp curve ... last night would have been a good night to do it.. since it went down to 23 .. brrrr ... waterfalls of leaves falling off the trees this morning when the sun hit them .....

after lunch .... i finished it all up ... its like the apocalypse in there .... lol

any further questions .. about the process up to here ...???

ken
{{gwi:262007}}

Ken tell me more about this heat sink comment. We too have a cement room under the front porch. Ours has a rock floor. It is where the sump pump is. We keep our freezer there. We have a walk out with an open stair case. You think the cement room adds to the coldness of the basement?

absolutely .. cement wicks the cold of the outside in ... that is why they normally put basements UNDER ground .... unfortunately .... in the front of my house the basement is about 3 feet out of the ground ....

i got a dollar store thermometer ... strung a sheet over the doorway .... measured temp inside and outside the room .. before and after .... with sheet/comforter basement was 68 with heat duct .... and room was 60 or so ....

without sheet .... whole basement stayed around 62 .. brrrrrr .... i also strung some drapes at the top of the stairs ... as heat rises .. so by trapping it .... it stays warmer ...

and ... when i had a new furnace put in .. i had a cold air duct put in at floor level ..to suck cold air off the basement floor ....

the plant stand is heating that room .. and keeping the basement warmer ...

btw ... i have a quad level ... which means my basement is about 1/2 of a normal ranch .... i dont know if the effect would be as great in a full basement .....

and i have 16 lights running ... 8 banks of two ...

does that cover it??

ken