Eden Climber or Mme. Alfred Carriere
beckbunch
12 years ago
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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
12 years ago
Embothrium
12 years agoRelated Discussions
Renae vs. Mme Alfred Carriere
Comments (8)Not to disrespect the Madame in any way, but from experience she is a MONSTER! She wants to be a large, tall plant, no matter how horizontally you train her. She will express her long canes even more vigorously in an indirect, filtered light, partial shade situation, attempting to throw herself into the good sunlight. Your stated height for the railing of 3.5' is no where near sufficient for a plant of her vigor and demanded size. She's sometimes described as having a "lower prickle count", which perhaps could be said depending upon your definition of "lower", but from experience, her smaller prickles are SHARP and mean. I've lost MUCH blood to too-close, intimate contact with her. I realize your zone could be anything from 6b to 8a in Arkansas, and where I grew her was zone 9b, but relative vigor compared to relative vigor holds true. I definitely feel the Madame is going to be too vigorous, too large and too prickly for that short a support, and her mean prickles are going to be the type you really don't want on a balcony railing. You'll probably have to keep too much of her pruned off to get much bloom and what you do receive is very likely to be thrown out toward the sun. I couldn't keep her contained to a 5' block wall. She continually took to the neighbors' trees and threw herself over the wall into the neighbor's back yard where the sun was more direct. Most of the flowering was in their back yard, too, even though she received a whole lot more direct sun where she was than you describe as available where you wish to grow her. Renae, on the other hand, has NO prickles. She is MUCH more limber, more easily manipulated and trained to smaller spaces. She flowers in clusters rather than many one to three flowers per long flowering stems, and often flowers on very short laterals along the canes. She is much less prone to mildew in difficult situations. Not that she won't mildew, she resists it much better than the Madame. Her smaller, less double flowers, occur in many clusters along the canes in much lower light, which should permit you more color and scent along your railing. Renae should be every bit as hardy (perhaps slightly more hardy) than the Madame. Trying to manipulate stiffer, more brittle, sharply prickled canes to a short railing as you describe is not a task I would desire. Manipulating Renae's much more limber, flexible and totally smooth canes will be heaven on earth in comparison. The potential for you to actually enjoy flowers ON the railing is significantly higher because of her habit, too. The Madame is significantly more vigorous a plant than Renae, particularly initially, but that extreme vigor is what will make her quickly unsuitable for such a short support. Renae is going to take her time building into the size plant you desire there, but in the long run she will be one you enjoy and not dread dealing with, nor will she require as much "dealing with" to contain her where you want her. Renae's repeat and explosion of bloom can be remarkable. Again, in a different zone than yours, so perhaps a bit faster development, but in zone 9b, in Visalia, CA at the Ralph Moore Memorial Garden on April 7 of this year, this is what Renae looked like. Imagine that on your balcony railing! These plants are ten years old, own root plants which have been trained by the Master Gardeners there to cover the pergola. Compare the shots to those available for the Madame and consider which you'd rather shove your hands and arms into! Kim...See MoreRestraining Mme Alfred Carriere on pillar?
Comments (10)Have you considered Cl Iceberg? Even in my warm climate, it is MUCH easier to control than MAC. Don't get me wrong - I love MAC. We have three. One was planted to climb up a plum tree, did that, and also jumped over to the tops of 3 other trees. Got to the top of its original tree, and sent long canes from the top down to the base again, covering another huge (20 ft by 20 ft) shrub in the process. Another was planted to grow up the side of our garage. Did that, and also went another 20 feet up a pine tree next to the garage, from whence it is contemplating eating the neighbor's deck. The third one was planted (in a large pot this time!) at the base of another plum tree next to the other side of the garage. It went up the tree 20 feet, and is also now trying to cover the entire roof of the garage. I love them because they bloom for 10 months here, and get no care from me at all, except food once a year and some water during our normal 6 month summer drought. I would not ever try to "control" this rose - Jackie...See MoreMme Alfred Carriere - final size in UK?
Comments (21)Marlorena, why don't you admit it, you have all your roses on steroids! Your Bonica is simply lovely, just like every other rose and plant you've posted. You're being much too modest. My Bonica languished for the longest time until I'd finally had enough and cut it all the way back in preparation to my husband taking it out of the ground. I then felt guilty and had him replant it in a spot that gets much more sun and I think it's now a proud four inches high. I'm curious to see what, if anything, it does this spring. FDUK, after seeing the beautiful picture Marlorena posted I can understand your reluctance in having to give away MAC. Having seen a monstrous one in person I do think, however, that you're doing the right thing. Hopefully, you'll be able to visit it and take pictures. I hope it's a success in its new home. Ingrid...See MoreMme Alfred Carriere - Tree Climber, Arbor or Shrub?
Comments (25)Thank you so much for both of these photos, Cynthia! I appreciate the naked photo ;-) so I can see how those canes want to grow. She's such a slender little thing for 7 yrs. I just talked to Carol at Northland, and she confirmed everything you, and others, have said about her loose, horizontal growth. She also said a little shade would be good because we have extremely hot summers. Your first photo makes me so glad I got her. I don't mind waiting for blooms. My Austin Cottage Rose sat here for 15 years before she gave me absolutely scrumptious blooms last year. She wasn't in the way, and not a priority to remove. That combo is beautiful with Grandmother's Hat and the red roses on each side. Really lovely placement. An elderberry is waiting to go in the ground here, too. I am planning to have some things on hand this year to prop up my droopers and flopers better as per your earlier thread on the subject. For anyone who hasn't read it, it's here with more photos of Cynthia's roses. Get ready to drool. My limp Austins will be standing like little soldiers this year. Well, at least they won't be crawling along the ground. I actually like a bit of loose shrubbiness. I didn't mean to get off track here, but I found that thread very helpful. I appreciate your insight about MAC and no doubt other cold zoners will also find it helpful. Edited - I just read through that thread again (supports) and realize that I had totally missed the specific paragraphs about MAC because she wasn't on my mind until just lately. What a great thread, and I so thoroughly enjoyed seeing the photos of your roses again. You mentioned a smoke bush in the same area as your elderberry. I am feeling a little like a big time gardener because in addition to the elderberry bush waiting to be planted, I also have a smoke bush waiting to go near the elderberry. If I'm thinking like you, I must be doing something right....See Morecanucklady
12 years agoEmbothrium
12 years agocanucklady
12 years agotallclover
12 years agogardening_fever
12 years ago
harborrose_pnw
12 years agoboxofrox
12 years agoThat sounds like a great field trip....let's all get in the car and drive all the way to Pt Defiance to see the rose ball. Wouldn't it just be easier to say it's not an OGR ?
Seriously though, I have had White Eden for years with no more problems than any other rose in my garden including no balling problems. The intricacy in the petals as it opens and the outstanding contrasts it makes with blue and purple clematis alone are worth the price of admission, IMNSVHO.Is it MAC ? No but no other rose is either :-)
harborrose_pnw
12 years ago
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