It's considered a Tea-Noisette, but more likely its "Tea" part is Hybrid Perpetual, thus it's the hardiest of the bunch. I've not yet grown it, but I don't think it'll make much of a tree-climber in zone 5. In fact, I'm not sure there are many tree-climbers hardy enough to do that in zone 5, so I wouldn't expect it of this rose. In your situation, I'd plant it where it can be a large shrub, and where it can get sun. Your Winters will likely take their toll, meaning you'll be cutting back dead parts every Spring. To re-gain size, it'll want more sun during the growing season.

If anyone else has experience with this rose in zone 6 or lower, take their advice over mine if it conflicts. I'm just guessing what I'd do based on how some of my more tender roses do here.

:-)

~Christopher

I can only comment on the flexibility of her canes. I trained it on a wall, horizontally going right and left, without the height, rambler like and it was quite easy to do...

I hope you like it.. I didn't get many blooms in the first year, in fact I'm not sure I had any..

We never even tried it because of several reports from zone 5 midwest that it didn't survive.

I've had MAC in my zone 6 garden for two winters now, with no dieback. Granted, these past winters haven't gotten as cold as they could have. When I lived in the Mother Lode of CA, I had MAC and grew it cascading over a rail fence. I love this rose, with its sweetly scented white flowers with pink shadings. In CA it bloomed often and massively, almost covering the foliage. So far my baby plant here has only had scattered flowers. I've seen photos from Britain of MAC climbing two or three story houses to the top, so I wouldn't discount its climbing abilities if it's happy.

I grow it near a porch, but I don't think it needs protection. Mine is just over 5 feet tall, survived some colder than normal winters with some dieback, but does fine.

Erasmus, your rose is so beautiful. Diane

Thank you all for the encouragement. It sounds like there's a good chance she'll do ok. I'm learning the zone recommendations are just that - recommendations. I grow a few roses rated z7 without protection, and they do fine, even through our worst winters.

Christopher, you are far too humble. Your advice is always spot on. I would love a tree climber, but you are right - probably no such thing here. My most vigorous climber/rambler is Bonny, an old Kordes that is out of commerce as far as I can tell. At Northland, located on a high plain with terrible winds, one plant covered both sides of a wide arbor in 2 seasons. It is no longer there, but mine perseveres and stays green through most of winter. I hold my breath every year on that one.

Marlorena, it's good to hear it is flexible enough to train and thanks for the reminder that it is thornless. That's always a bonus. I would do as you have done - if I had a wall or a fence. I have always admired the walls of English gardens covered in roses. Aww, if only!

Mad_gallica, I'm sure NY z5 is not the same as eastern WA z5, but it sounds very promising for us to grow MmeAC, though it may be a smaller size than in warmer zones.

Erasmus, that is one gorgeous rose! I won't get my hopes up that mine will perform that well. I'm glad to hear she's flexible and thornless. I'm used to a fair amount of winter dieback, so that will be nothing new here. Those blooms!! Thank you for posting your photo of her.

Genevre, I'm thrilled to hear it grows well in z6. I keep hearing this area has been upgraded to z6. I'm hopeful but skeptical. I also grew roses in So. Cal. for many more years than I have in WA. I miss the long growing season and the vigor of the roses there.

Krista, you answered the only remaining question - protection. Thank you for the reassurance that it can make it on it's own. I normally only protect zone pushers their first year, then they are on their own.

Diane, I completely agree! I can only hope for a smidgen of that here.

Thank you. I guess in my picture the bloom is a little sparse compared to what it is sometimes. That plant gets some shade from a nearby apple tree.

Erasmus, that photo makes me even more anxious for spring, if that's possible, and shows exactly why I want to grow this rose. Your first pic didn't look sparse to me! Thank you so much for showing what MmeAC can do when she's happy.

Flowers, I've had MAC in my zone 5 yard for about 7 years and it does get quite large - I'd say it has 8-10' canes at least and can at least ramble up a pole or into a large shrub as I have mine. It's not stiff enough to be a stand-alone shrub, as it would flop onto everything else nearby. Mine has very flexible canes and needs supports along the whole length.

I'd still give it your most protected spot though. Mine is in my zone 6 pocket right next to the house on the sunny side, and it only blooms if it has surviving cane after the winter. That only happens about 1 in 4 winters, although it always has survived well to regrow cane enthusiastically from the roots. Mine is also a once bloomer, though I understand that it can rebloom in warmer climates. It's lovely when it blooms and is a mostly low-care rose, but it needs to be supported by something and needs to have surviving cane if possible, so the protection is valuable.

Cynthia

Cynthia, you have no idea how happy I am to hear Mme AC does well in z5. I am very grateful to know that she needs support. There is one porch post that is protected from the elements that might work, but I think I've decided to place her in an all day sunny spot sharing an arbor with a clematis and give her good winter protection, and hope the info about becoming z6 is accurate. I'm anxious to see how Carol at Northland has hers situated in their gardens, so I will check that out when I go pick my order up in April.

what zone are you in? it depends on how old the rose is. we have old garden roses that had no care for at least 35 years until I came along. They were still growing alongside damaged canes, one on the North side somebody suck a metal pole in the middle of it, it's a wonder it's alive, but those old roses just are so wonderful. The one out front is against a South facing wall. So I'm going to create 2 tipis and plant 2 old rose climbers up them, and then plant a clematis across the top. I don't think they'll get 12-18 ft high. They may surprise me but I doubt it. Wrapping them around poles takes up more footage so I'll have to plant another vine to fill across the top. It will be a grand entrance. Btw we were zone 5 most of the years those roses were planted, now we are zone 6. Also I read that in Chicago most people with climbing roses wrapped the canes around the tree limbs or posts with burlap to protect the canes. I tried it this winter and it worked!!! So try some burlap, it breathes, but still protects the canes from the winds. So I wouldn't be worried, but your post out south sounds nice. Your heart will tell you.

Starchild, if you are asking me, I'm zone 5. However, I hear we've been upgraded to zone 6. Lucky you to have mature roses when you moved into your home. Even if they're not what you would have chosen, they are already planted, mature and just waiting for someone to offer a little TLC.

Your plan with the old rose climbers and clematis sounds like something we would all love to see - so be sure to post a pic when you get it all in place, and again after the roses fill out a bit.

You are so right that our hearts often dictate what to do (but I admit to sometimes being stumped), as well as the roses themselves telling us where they're happy. Thank you for your suggestions.

Flowers, MAC does fine for me in survival but be patient with it in blooming. Mine didn't bloom at all for the first 4 or 5 years I had it, and it doesn't bloom every year even at that. There are better once-bloomers for our zone, but when she blooms she's lovely.

Here she it climbing into the elderberry bush to the right - Grandmother's Hat is arm wrestling her for position, and MAC wins the first round but GH totally cleans up for the rest of the summer as far as blooming goes. MAC is up to window well height but that's deceptive because these blooms are about 6' to the right of the actual base of the plant that is another window's distance to the left of this photo. Notice all the canes of MAC are sideways.

Here's a naked MAC (presuming such racy photos are allowed on a family website). She looks more upright than she really is as a freestanding bush here because she doesn't have leaves or blooms to weigh down the canes. You can see the peony grow ring I threw in at the base to the right of the rose to keep those floppy canes off the ground. Grandmother's Hat is the rose visible to the right in this shot and you can't even see the elderberry bush, so you can picture how far both of these roses really stretch out to the side. The canes of MAC aren't as flexible as (say) Crown Princess Margaretha so they'd need to be wound loosely around your pillar when young, but I think they'd do this with some encouragement. You'd want to make sure the canes are as horizontal as possible to encourage the blooming laterals, particularly since we only get the one bloom cycle in cold zones.

Cynthia

Thank you so much for both of these photos, Cynthia! I appreciate the naked photo ;-) so I can see how those canes want to grow. She's such a slender little thing for 7 yrs. I just talked to Carol at Northland, and she confirmed everything you, and others, have said about her loose, horizontal growth. She also said a little shade would be good because we have extremely hot summers.

Your first photo makes me so glad I got her. I don't mind waiting for blooms. My Austin Cottage Rose sat here for 15 years before she gave me absolutely scrumptious blooms last year. She wasn't in the way, and not a priority to remove. That combo is beautiful with Grandmother's Hat and the red roses on each side. Really lovely placement. An elderberry is waiting to go in the ground here, too.

I am planning to have some things on hand this year to prop up my droopers and flopers better as per your earlier thread on the subject. For anyone who hasn't read it, it's here with more photos of Cynthia's roses. Get ready to drool. My limp Austins will be standing like little soldiers this year. Well, at least they won't be crawling along the ground. I actually like a bit of loose shrubbiness. I didn't mean to get off track here, but I found that thread very helpful.

I appreciate your insight about MAC and no doubt other cold zoners will also find it helpful.

Edited - I just read through that thread again (supports) and realize that I had totally missed the specific paragraphs about MAC because she wasn't on my mind until just lately. What a great thread, and I so thoroughly enjoyed seeing the photos of your roses again. You mentioned a smoke bush in the same area as your elderberry. I am feeling a little like a big time gardener because in addition to the elderberry bush waiting to be planted, I also have a smoke bush waiting to go near the elderberry. If I'm thinking like you, I must be doing something right.

LOL! Great minds must think alike because I'm replacing an elderberry that died and was looking to add a smokebush! Just piping in from Z6 here regarding MAC. Mine was new last year from ARE and was only planted out in the Fall. She bloomed at least once while potted and then again when put in the ground on a north-facing wall.. She then had many buds waiting to go before we got super cold and they dried on the bush. I was very impressed with her bloom. She still has some long cane left, but is still dormant. (I can take a pic if you like.) We reached lows of -7F! for quite a few nights and had days at a stretch where it was single digit not including windchill. I hope that helps someone. : )

It sure does, vaporvac, it helps me, and I'm sure others as well. I'm loving what I'm hearing about this rose. And, I think it's interesting that some of us have similar taste in shrubs as well as roses.

I've never fretted so much over a rose before. It must be the pictures I've seen of those blowsy, flouncy blooms that have me concerned that I do right by her. I would love to see your pic of her cane structure, but I'm not asking you to go out in frosty weather. Stay in where it's warm. I think I have a pretty good idea what to expect. I hope mine will be as eager to bloom as yours.

Flowers, go for it . It has many months to grow and be strong before winter comes again. You have great suggestions and advice . Like you said you know what to expect. Good luck my friend.

Please take tons of pics.

Jin

Thank you, Jin. You always have encouraging words.

Flowers, you're very kind in your comments on my garden and the staking thread - I'm glad you find it helpful! I frequently look at photos like those from my own yard and wish my yard looked that nice. No, really - it might look like that for a fleeting period in one part of the yard, but rarely very widely or very long. I've spent so many Junes waiting for a spring flush to really wow me that I'm reluctantly realizing I just need to appreciate the little windows of nice here and there.

It sounds like you have good plans for your MAC and she's definitely a survivor. She has a mind of her own but given all those wayward floppy canes she at least has the benefit that she's not aggressively thorny (plenty of smaller thorns though). Don't fret about her, just give her space to ramble and be patient.

Flowers and Vapor - it's fun that you both have the smokebush and Elderberry (mine is the Black Lace). Part of the reason may be that these are easy growing hardy bushes in our zones, and also that the colors of the foliage set off the roses nicely even when nothing much is blooming (ask me how I know...). Just FWIW, I ended up chopping off the smokebush at the ground level about 3 years ago because it was just getting too big. I don't recall the exact variety but it was something like Purple Rain. The "bush" was reaching second story height and taking up too much valuable rose space. By chopping it to the ground, I am now able to keep the bush to a smaller height by only allowing one year's growth on the bush at any time. It also seems like the color stays brighter when I do this because it's always needing to push out new growth. I probably wouldn't do that except with a mature bush, but it's nice to have some things in cold zones that are trouble free and indestructible.

Cynthia

Cynthia, you're not alone - we all take photos when our gardens are looking good. At least I do. If only we could press PAUSE at certain times when it's at it's best.

I am going to get my smoke bush and Black Lace, also a Chinese Fringe tree, in the ground this year. They've been in pots for 2 years. I have read that cutting a smoke bush back severely is a good way to rejuvenate over grown or tired ones, so I'll remember that it does work.

Flowers, here is MAC in the center almost bare with last years' foliage today

I thoroughly encourage you to give MAC a shot. The testimonials for your zone are so encouraging, and MAC is stunningly beautiful and quite fragrant (in a wafting way) when mature.

I'd add two suggestions. The first has been mentioned. Give MAC time. She's a slow starter but worth it! Allow five years or more for glory. Second, if you are training her, start early. Her canes lose flexibility with age. Oh, and a third item I'd mention is that she is NOT thornless or nearly thornless. And her thorns are fangs. She's no Stanwell Perpetual, but use thick elbow gloves and watch where you place your fingers.

Beautiful photos, everyone! I LOVE this rose. Carol

Thanks, Carol. MmeAC is ordered and paid for and waiting to be picked up next month. I have other roses that have taken their time to perform, so no biggie. I will certainly get those canes going in the right direction early on. As for thorns - it's all part and parcel of growing roses. Stanwell Perpetual is a rose?? I thought it was a cacti ! Now, that is a fearsome rose. There is no place to put your fingers. Not one I enjoy deadheading!