Welcome, Callie!

Diane

You are all dearhearts! Thank you so much! I can't wait to round up and start some seeds! Dawn, how wonderful to have such a grasp on all of the varieties...

Welcome Callie,
I'm at work so will be going from memory and also will try to keep this short as I will need to get back to work soon. I may try to add more later.

First I want to say anything I say is from my experience and yours can vary a lot from mine. Then conditions seem to change. For several years Goliath hybrid was as dependable as any I grew. Then 2 years ago was the first failure I had with it. But again I only had one plant that year. This year it did better but still not as well as in the past. That is why my list of must grows and stand by's vary from year to year.

Black from Tula has performed well most years in my extreme conditions. I grew Black Krim last summer and production was much lower. I had 4 BK plants so felt it received a fair chance. Last year was my first for Dana's Dusky Rose. I was impressed with it's season long production. Only time will tell how it performs long term. Cherokee Purple has usually done well for me. Out performs Indian Stripe here. And very good taste.

For an orange Kellogg's Breakfast is a favorite that has good production. Like Dawn said Juane Flammee' is also a good one.

Heinz 1439, Glick's 18 Mennonite and Atkinson are steady performing all around types. I've tried both Sioux and both Porter types along with Arkansas Traveler. None has performed as well or tasted as good as those I just mentioned.

Black Cherry had very good taste but moderate production for me last year.

This is a very short quick list. Keeping it anywhere near 5 is hard for me. I will add some more later when I have more time. Jay

Thank you ever, EVER so much! I'm making my list now and hope to order seeds tonight! When do you usually start them indoors?

Callie,

I try to start seeds indoors in flats on Super Boy Sunday because it is something I can do in order to avoid watching 9 hours of pre-game shows. Well, actually I chose that date because is is roughly two months before my average last frost date.

My avearage last frost date is March 27th, but keep in mind that if you plant on your average last frost date, there's still a 50% chance a frost will occur after that date. So, I usually wait a few days---maybe planting around April 7-10 if the weather forecast is good and the soil temps and air temps are right.

You don't want to start the seedlings too early or you run the risk they'll get too tall or rootbound. You don't want to start them too late or they'll be teeny-tiny and get off to a slower start in the garden. So, if you start your seeds about 2 months before the date you "expect" to transplant the plants into the garden, that should be just about right.

Figuring out the best planting date for your garden may take some trial and error. Average last frost dates are based on the 30-year-average for your county, but your particular area may get warmer or cooler than the official weather site does.

With tomato plants, you want them in the ground as soon as is humanly possible after the danger of frost is more-or-less over. High temperatures can impede tomato blossom pollination, so here in Oklahoma where it heats up pretty early, we are in a frantic race every spring to get our tomato plants into the garden, blossoming and setting fruit successfully before the temperatures get too hot. At my house, we reach the "too hot" stage around the 3rd week of June in an average year, so I can't afford to plant too late or I wouldn't get many tomatoes at all.

If you don't know your average last frost date, let us know what county you're in and we'll help you figure it out.

Dawn

Welcome to Oklahoma's best source of Gardening Addiction Enablers! ha! I'd wager you'll find answers to any question about anything you might want to grow right here!

I've attached a link that might be helpful to you as well as some others in determining an average last frost date. For example, I live in Norman. There's a 90% probability that my last frost date is March 27, but can be as late as April 29 (a 10% chance). Dawn has probably got a reference that may be easier to read but thought I'd link this anyway.

Paula

Here is a link that might be useful: NOAA chart of frost dates for Oklahoma

This one is helpful sometimes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Normals and Extremes MESONET

Dawn - Super BOY Sunday? Where is your mind, girl?

You're as bad as I am when I posted the Cilantro thread....

Susan

Susan,

Oh, that's funny! Actually, there is a logical answer. I picked up a seed packet of Super Boy tomato to add to the grow list and it is sitting here on the coffee table right in front of me. I don't really care for Super Boy myself, but it is a great giveaway tomato for friends who won't grow their own. If they want the better-tasting heirlooms, they'll have to raise their own, but I'll plant and give them Super Boy toms. : )

The game between the Jets and Steelers is on right now. Tim is a Steelers fan and Chris is a Jets fan. I'm between two big boys on this one, and am getting out of it by rooting for both teams.

Notice how cleverly I threw in the name of another tomato variety (Big Boy) when mentioning how thriling it is to watch a conference championship game when you're stuck between two big boys on opposite sides. No matter who wins the football game, one guy or the other will be miserable over it and won't want to watch the Super Bowl in two weeks.

Dawn

There's talk of the WOW cherry tomato over on the Growing Tomatoes forum, and they're selling it at Fedco. For as many times as the word WOW appears on this thread, I didn't find the WOW variety on anybody's grow list. Who's going to go first? Will it be Dawn or Jay? Or maybe a dark horse?

Well, it won't be me who tries it first. My grow list for 2011 is much too long as it is. You could be the one to try it first and then you could tell us all about it.

My experiments this year are the Brad Gates Wild Boar Farms varieties, the new dwarf hanging basket and container types, and some of the Goliath hybrid family.

It is hard to imagine anything could equal Sungold, much less supercede it, so I'm taking a wait and see approach on this one. I've tried some of the supposed SunGold-related tomatoes, and not been impressed with any of the OP ones. SunSugar is the improved hybrid version, and it is very close to SunGold though not quite the same, but with less cracking.

I've already been down this road with Brandywine, in the endless search for something "close" and with the same great flavor but enough production to make growing it worthwhile. Nothing else comes close to Brandywine, but it is hard to accept that and give up the search, which explain's why Brandywine Liam's is on my list this year.

If every tomato variety performed as hyped, I'd get more excited about new introductions, but they don't, and I say that after trying several hundred different varieties since moving here. My best guess is that 2 or 3 out of every ten I try will make it into the permanent growing rotation.

This Sungold talk reminds me of something I think I never mentioned about last year:

We tried Sungold and Black Cherry for the first time last year. Both were great. However...

At the plant swap, Dawn brought some Sweet Treats toms. I passed them by several times as we don't like "sweet" tomatoes. I kept telling the kids, no, we wouldn't like those so leave them for someone who would. In the end, one ended up in our van anyway so, of course, we planted it. It was THE BEST cherry we've ever had. Loads and loads and loads of large cherries, best taste in the universe. And they weren't at all sweet.

I'd forgotten all about that until just now. Now I'm going to have to find some seeds for those suckers!

Diane

OkieTim did it.

Aha! I knew there was something fishy about that man...

Don't y'all get it? He wants to be sure none of those "extra" plants hitch a ride back home to our place because if they do.....

OkieTim will have to get out the rototiller and make a new space for them.

See, that's how he operates and he does have an ulterior motive. He thinks the garden is big enough so we should give away the extras. I think that a half-acre addition would be a fine place to plant the extras. Also, he seems to be a natural enabler himself so he's just trying to spread the addiction around.

Diane, I don't have any more Sweet Treats seeds, but Jay might. I got my seeds from him last year.

Dawn

Oh, no, Dawn, I definitely don't need seeds this year. My little 36-variety list up there? That then turned into 50 varieties? You don't want to know what it's up to now. Heck, I don't want to know what it's up to. I will not get any more seeds this year. I will not. No one send me any more seeds.

Not. A. Single. One.

Well, except for the ones already on the way. But no more after that, really!

Whew.

But, yeah, Sweet Treats is going on my list for next year.

Diane

Call me a glutton for punishment, but I really want to try the Tess's Land Race. Where can I find seed for that? I just did a search, but could only find sites talking about it, not selling it.

Tess's is available from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, which I have linked below.

I just planted the last seeds from the packet I've had for about five years, so I either need to save some seed this year, which I never seem to have time to do when dealing with harvest season and all the canning/freezing of the harvest it brings, or buy another pack next year.

It is a monster plant and produces masses of tiny tomatoes. I eat them all day long while working outside. It is my favorite currant tomato so far, and I'm growing a couple more currant types alongside it this year to see how they compare.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Tess's Land Race Currant at SESE

I'm sure I just culled some. I checked and you don't have your email option enabled. If you will email me I can check. I haven't disposed of the seeds yet so will just have to sort through to find them. If I have them they have never been opened and I'm guessing 3-4 years old. Jay

I went and found the Tess seeds along with seeds for Hawaiian Currant. I have them setting out. Ladybug if you want them shoot me an email. If not Dawn will be receiving another envelope. I received both as gifts and have never grown either. Jay

I have finally compiled a rough draft of my 2011 grow list. I will be trying to cut it down some. And have a few more seeds being sent to me. Will see what they are when they arrive. A few are supposed to be new releases. After reading the the great lists above I feel like the country boy sneaking into the presidential inauguration. Jay

2011 Tomato List

All Around Types

Amish Canner
Atkinson
Glick's 18 Mennonite
Heinz 1439
Heinz 1350
Kanora - Kansas variety
Mozark - A University of Missouri variety - Det
#670

Bi-Colors

Arkansas Marvel
Pink Berkeley Tie-Dye
Texas Star

Beefsteak/Slicers

Barlow Jap - Pink
Big Cheef - Brandywine Cross
Bobbie
Brandywine OTV
Carmello OP
County Agent - Red
Cowlick Brandywine - Pink
Ed's Millenium - Brandywine selection
Germaid Red
Grandma Suzy's Beefsteak
Hege's German Pink
Lancaster County Pink
Pomodoro Costoluto Genevese
Royal Hillbilly
Sandul Moldovan Ribbed
Sweet Corners Pink - Don't know anything about this one. Sent to me and sounds nice
Todebusch Pink

Cherries

Aunt Rubys German Green Cherry
Black Cherry
Black Mystery Pear
Blondkopfchen
Camp Joy
Mountain Magic Hybrid
Roller Coaster
Smarty F1
Sungold Hybrid
Sungold Select OP
Sunsugar Hybrid
Sweet Treats Hybrid
Texas Star Cherry

Darks

Amazon Chocolate
Black from Tula
Carbon
Cherokee Purple RL & PL
Dana's Dusky Rose
Indian Stripe
JD's Special C-Tex
PPP x P "C" - Pale Perfect Purple x Purple Price
Purple Haze F5 and possibly Haze(an OP selection)
Spudakee - PL strain of CP
True Black Brandywine
Vorlon

Green when Ripe

Absinthe
Cherokee Green
Emerald Evergreen

Oxhearts
Guildo Pietroboni
JD's Special Pink Heart

Plum/ Paste/Other small types

Cody's Paste
Grandma Mary's Paste
Heinz 2653 Paste
Hog Heart Paste
Malinowski

Yellows/Orange

1884 Yellow Pink Heart - Darrell Merrell variety
Casey's Pure Yellow
Golden Queen non USDA
Juane Flammee'
Kellogg's Breakfast
KBX
Lillian's Yellow
Orange Minsk
Woodle Orange

Others

OSU Blue Fruit
Tomasil - White

Grafting Rootstock

Emperador
He-Man
Maxifort

Hybrids other than cherries - Will pick 5-8 from this list

Big Beef
Big Zac
Brandyboy
Geronimo
Goliath
Heritage Hybrid
Jetsonic
Jet Star
Momotaro - Nematode tolerance
Old Fashioned Goliath
Pear Goliath
Porterhouse
Pink Beauty
Prime Beef Goliath
Ramapo
Red Defender
Security
Sunny Goliath

Hey Jay, Shall we see who can grow the biggest Royal Hillybilly? I think a couple more people got seeds in the swap. How about you Chandra? Are you in?

I don't think these were the biggest ones, but they are the ones I took a picture of.

Here is a link that might be useful: Royal Hillbilly 2010

Carol,
Although I picked some nice ones last summer it is hard for me to get many real big ones here in my conditions until late in the season. But I'll try. I had a few other varieties with bigger fruits but the RH's were really good.

After I posted the list. I remembered one I left off. George's Prudence Purple. And it is one that I for sure will grow. Jay

Carol,
I got Royal Hillybilly in the swap. Please count me in, that would be another fun! But you prepared to expect smallest in the race. Probably I could fit well if you say who can grow the smallest Royal Hillybilly!

Here is my tomato grow list for 2011... You all know who send all these seeds... Credit goes to Seed Swap! I did not buy a single seed in the list except four marked with asterisk are the only seeds i am planning to order.

MAIN CROP:
Celebrity*
Jet Star
Beef Master
Better Boy
Brandy Boy
Goliath*
Black Krim

Santium
Eva's Purple Ball
Tess's Land Race
Red Pear Franchi
Super Sweet 100 Hybrid
Baker's Family
Rutgers
Santorini
Paquebot Roma
Royal Hillbilly
Beefsteak
Tommy Toes

COLORED
Sweet Million-Red bite
Porter-Pink sliceSunGold-Orange bite
Russian Persimmon-Orange slice
Orange Banana-Orange paste
Ildi-Yellow bite
Dr. Wyche's Yellow- Yellow slice
P20 Blue*-Blue bite
Cherokee Purple- Purple slice
Royal Hillbilly- Purple slice
Aunt Ruby's German Green-Green slice
Black Cherry- Black slice
Snow White*- White bite
Indian Stripe- BiC- slice

Thank you -Chandra

After I purchased seed of Purple Hillbilly from Remy, I ran into the issue of what is PH really? I know, I should have done it before I got the seeds.....oh well. Finding very little on the Internet after an in-depth search, I asked about it on several other forums and inquired of Remy, too. Supposedly it is potentially synonymous with Royal Hillbilly, or at the minimum, related to it per Remy. PH was apparently developed in Belgium and seeds sent to growers in the US, and sometimes, as I understand it, names do get mixed up in the exchange process. Like RH, PH is a semi-det, dark pink variety, with an 80 DTM. RH is PL and PH is RL, though. The late Darrell Merrell was given seeds from Hillbilly and selected the variety named RH. Perhaps he received the seeds from the gentleman in France, but no one seems to know for sure. The photos on Tatiana's database are from this fellow, though.

So, there is some mystery surrounding the relationship of PH and RH, but all who have grown both say they are so similar in growth habit (semi-det), color, size, flavor, DTMs, etc., that they cannot really tell them apart except that RH is a PL and PH is RL.

So, I think I may not grow this one this year since it has a longer DTM and instead will grow Santorini that I received in the trade. Does anyone know more about the Santorini? I find it could be 1 of 4 different Santorini types (all being named after the Greek isle Santorini). One is a round cherry; one a 2 oz plum; 1 a ribbed paste type (2-3oz); and 1 a saladette version of the ribbed. It is supposed to have a very good flavor and I am excited about this one.

Susan

Chandra, if you've not already ordered, I have both Snow White cherry and Celebrity if you'd like. I also have OSU Blue. Just email me with your mailing addy and I'll get them in the mail as soon as I can tunnel my way to the almost-buried mailbox.

Diane

Diane,

Thank you very much. I just emailed you my address.
With your additional swap, my tomato wish-list become grow-list 100%!

I am so glad to know that Garden World is filled with so much of generosity, altruism, sharing and caring... tech world should learn lot from this part of the planet.

Take care -Chandra

Got your email, Chandra. Will pack up the seeds tonight but pretty sure mail won't be running for a couple of days. Will holler when they go out. :-)

Diane

As grown in my garden for several years, Royal Hillbilly is Indeterminate and has regular leaf foliage. It produces fruit of variable size, some as large as Carol's in the photo and some not as large, but all of them taste good. I like them better than the original Hillbilly, which is a yellow and red bicolor with highly variable flavor.

We do know where Royal Hillbilly came from in terms of where Darrell Merrell's seed came from. He received 'Hillbilly' seed from a woman in Collinsville, OK, named Ruth Marcum and she, in turn, had received the seed from her brother, Ralph Miller, who lived in Ohio. Plants grown from his Ruth Marcum 'Hillbilly' seed gave at least three fruit variations and from those he selected over several years until he had the stabilized OP variety we know as Royal Hillbilly, which Darrell grew as far back as the mid- to late-1990s. I don't remember seeing seed of Royal Hillbilly available commercially until maybe the mid-2000s. Well, Mariseeds may have had it earlier than that, but I don't think Baker Creek had it until then.

For the last few years, Royal Hillbilly has been on the "top ten" list at The Tomatoman's Daughter, and I know it was one of Darrell Merrell's faves.

Gary, having grown plants for Darrell, probably knows a lot more about Royal Hillbilly than I do.

My Royal Hillybilly had regular leaf foliage also. In fact, it didn't have as much foliage as most of my tomato plants did. I would say the the first half dozen fruits were about the size that I showed in the picture, but after that they were smaller, but still large tomatoes.

We are still getting snow. Al said the TV map just showed us with 18 inches.

Carol, I don't remember mine ever having oodles of foliage either, although they somehow manage to have enough that the fruit don't sunscald. I always get the larger ones earlier like you do, but in a very dry spring, the larger ones aren't as large as they are in a wetter spring.

You have too much snow. Our three inches is minor and wouldn't be notable at all were it not for the thick layer of ice underneath. The wind and cold temps are as much of a problem here as the snow.

Our snow ended after that last little shower of snow flurries Tim saw while watching the dogs run outside. We had clear blue skies after that and, as our local weather forecaster said on the evening news, now we're likely to go even lower than previously forecast because there's no layer of clouds above us....just clear open sky. I want my clouds back!

Cool beans! From the little info I did get, reports on the flavor were mixed, so maybe therein lies the difference.

Susan

Flavor? The only complaint I had was that it was too big for a slice of bread. It's not one of those smooth, midium sized little grocery tomatoes, but it's a winner.

Carol - checked on other threads so I'm VERY happy to know you're snug at home with no problems so far!

Diane - I'm seriously worried about you up there! You guys may end up with more than the 22" you were expecting!! And the wind....omg, it's AWFUL! Have you put the kids to work sorting seeds yet? ha!

Chandra - what Goliath are you interest in? I ordered some Early Goliath because I was so impressed with the Italian Goliath last year. I'll most probably have a few of those to share at the Spring Fling if you're interested.

Paula
(who's going off to make her "final" tomatoe list...and pepper list....and cucumber list...and okra list...and bean list....I see a pattern developing here....)

Last year was my first year to grow Royal Hillbilly. Mine were more of a SD. I looked back at an old SSE yearbook and one of those who listed said it had enormous leaves and mine had big leaves also. Mine had above average foliage. And were RL. Every listing I find for it if they state leaf type says RL. My early fruits were the smallest. They ran in the 8-11 oz range. The later ones ran 10-14 ounces. It is normal for most varieties to produce their largest fruits late here. Unless we have an early spring and I get them in early so they can set fruit and it can grow before the heat sets in. My seeds came from either TGS or Mariseeds. I would have to check to know for certain. My vines ended up around 5' but with a bushy look to them. Thick stems. Like Dawn said Gary would know as much as anyone about it. My fruit shape and color fit that of most descriptions. As Glen at Sandhill describes it. Flattened coral-pink. Mariana calls it dusty purple pink.

Susan will be interested in your opinion of Santorina. I have grown it from 3 sources. Each one from growers I respect and each highly recommended it. I will say this. The plants are very productive and never slow down even in our heat. Although some who sent it too me said it produced fruit around 4 ounces I have never seen that here. They have been around 2 ounces and scalloped. And too me the flavor is a 5 at best on a 1-10 scale. I hope you really like them. After last year I swore I would never waste space and water on them again.

We're still alive, Paula. I'll go check in on the Snowmageddon thread.

Diane

Thanks for the info, Jay, I appreciate it. You're such a nice guy. I am going to narrow my list very soon, too. At first, I was very ambitious and thought about growing around 30 containers. Since then, the number has gone down to around 20, and now I'm thinking perhaps 10-12 max. I'm just afraid we are going to have severe drought continuing into summer that I don't want to be a slave to the hose. Also, I have other vegetables I want to grow. I will definitely grow the Purple Haze and the Juanne Flame, Sungold and Black Cherry. See, that's 4 already, only leaving room for another 6-8 varieties. Some of my dwarfs can be grown in much smaller containers, so I will include those. Will probably narrow to a couple earliest varieties, and then a couple more mid-season, and that will be about it. I'm feeling a little deflated about it, but I don't see a better alternative unless my neighbor on the corner wants to try some heirlooms and I can talk him into sharing a couple tomatos with me if I provide the plants.

I will likely include the Santorini just to see how they turn out.

Susan

I think mine is final. I have a strong taste preferance for the yellows and blacks, but am limiting what I grow this year due to the nematodes. The ones I am growing are either RKN resistant, and/or cherry varieties (which seemed to fare far better than my larger tomatoes last year).

The ones I chose were mainly based on availability. I had to place orders for Harvester Bush Beans, Wando Peas, Alabama #1 Pole Bean, Charleston Bell and Carolina Wonder Peppers from three different internet sources, so I just grabbed whatever RKN resistant tomatoes those three companies were selling.

RKN resistant:

Abraham Lincoln Improved
mid, Ind, 6-10 oz red, tangy

Atkinson (Jay's rec)
mid, Ind, good flavor 6-8 oz red

Better Boy
mid, Ind, 6-10 oz red

Celebrity
early to mid, det, 8 oz red

Lemon Boy
mid, ind, 7 oz yellow

Supersweet 100
mid, ind, 1 oz red cherry

Hopefully Nema Red

I am going to give two other small to cherry tomatoes (not advertised as RNK resistant but who knows) a shot this year based on availability. One each of black and yellow. I wanted to grow Black Cherry and Sungold but none of the sellers I ordered from had those.

Extra Eros Zlatolaska:
early, Det, 3 oz., orangish-red

Plum Black:
mid, Ind, 1.5 oz., grey-green to blackish
I have many more that I would like to try when/if we move next year. I saved seeds from my very favorite tomato jaune Flamme but don't dare try it again this year because it was one of my early deaths last year.

By the way, if anyone is looking for Alabama No 1 Pole beans, I looked for days and only found ONE internet seller offering them.

http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/

This grower seems to have a ton of unique varieties, great prices, and shipping is free if your order is at least $10.

Jo

I just added Sungold and Black Cherry (bought from Remy). While I was there, I got a couple of pretty climbing flowers (Glory Vine and Hyacinth Bean Vine).

That's what happens when I am stuck inside for too long. I shop.

Jo

Paula, I am looking for some kind early bearing Goliath, I think exactly what you ordered! Thanks for the offer.

I sent in the "Santorini of Greece" tomato to the swap. After flooding, extremely high humidity, heat, etc. last summer, the Santorini was one of a handful of plants (out of 40+ varieties) that never showed a hint of disease and when everything else stopped producing during the worst of the heat, it continued to pump out tons of fruit. It definitely was the workhorse in my garden and will certainly be considered for another spot in the garden this season. The fruit is ribbed, probably around 4-6 oz. and was meaty like a paste but much more flavorful than most paste tomatoes I've tasted.

I am really late getting back to this, but am sharing a photo of the cake discussed above. It was a blast to make, but I won't be doing a repeat this year. I started working on this year's project in my head on the way home from last year's Fling. Variety is good.

carsons_mimi, I again looked the swap seeds, Thanks for sending all those seeds!

Seedmama, that's awesome Cake!!! a lovely spring vegetable bed!

It's a conspiracy, I tell you! For two days now, the kids have been testing their skills at subliminal persuasion by mentioning "cake" as often as they can. I'm weakening...

While typing this, each of the older kids have come running up, squealing, "Ooh, I remeeeember THAT cake! It was gooooood!" Then they saunter away, mumbling "cake, cake, cake..." under their breath while snickering.

They put you up to this oh-so-conveniently-timed cake photo, didn't they??

Diane

Holy COW! What a CAKE!

I am a good cook but I do NOT BAKE. I am terrible.

Last weekend my neighbor (KelleyP) had a birthday and I made her a no bake icebox cake...that's how bad I am.

I made Cook's Country Light and Fluffy Dinner rolls for thanksgiving and they were BRICKS.

Diane: How old are your kids? Mine are two and four. And home ALL WEEK.

Guess who is making margaritas tonight???

;)

Jo

Jo, the four boys are 17, 14, 10, and 8. The two girls are 5 and almost 2.

We homeschool so they're always home anyway. I really need to learn to drink more and procreate less.

Diane

Diane,
My at home this week kids have been asking for cake too. Here we go again.... By chance did you have homemade pizza for dinner?

"I really need to learn to drink more and procreate less." You do know it doesn't always work like that...

We did the homemade pizza two nights ago. We were eating the leftovers until last night. Does that count?

I'll refrain from commenting further on the other. Ahem.

Diane

Drinking more and procreating less is an oxymoron.

I should have named my two kids Margarita and Chardonnay.

Jo

{{gwi:1077699}}