Ken, I'm glad Michaelg posted so I won't sound like a nut. :)) I agree about preparing a wider area so I just dug the whole bed out. I removed about 5"-6" of sand in order to fit the amendments (and to get rid of it). I wish I had known about the kitty litter when I was digging my beds. I get free composted horse manure locally so I use that now, but I've used the bagged cow manure from Lowe's/wherever. (Unfortunately, Black Kow is a little pricey for me.) I also use Fafard Soil Conditioner which is finely ground pine park. It's my preference over peat moss. Alfalfa about 4 cups per 10 sq ft, same amount of Milorganite (earthworms love it), Rose-Tone about 3 cups, epsom salts about half cup. You may have to hunt for it, but I added Greensand as a source of potassium which is supposed to be deficient in Florida soil. It's very slow acting. Maybe it seems like a lot of nitrogen, but there's also a lot of carbon going in. My soil pH is about 7.0 so I add soil sulfur. (In the hole I add alfalfa, milorganite and 3 clumps of bone meal around the bottom.) And I use mycorrhizae (soil microorganisms) when I plant each rose, available at Amazon.com. I have one more bed to prepare when it cools off, and I'm going to line the bottom with newspapers, leaves, pine straw, whatever to try to retain water. I know it will rot and migrate down fairly quickly but it's better than nothing. Just as a point of interest, I had to dig a deep hole (3+ ft deep) last spring in a bed I had been amending for more than two years probably to a depth of 12" - 15". I didn't hit sand until I got 3' down. The organic matter had traveled that far down in that time. It is always traveling down. That's why we replace it (or add to it, euphemistically) every year. Since I only have two roses on Fortuniana, I was/am very concerned about nematodes which thrive in Florida sand, plus my native soil was pathetic gray compacted stuff that resembled cement, so that's why I did so much excavation and replacement. When you're ready to plant, your bed will still look like sand with some dark clumps/areas scattered around, BUT in six months I had totally black sandy soil. And now I even have crumbly soil. Very cool! One thing someone said somewhere is that you do need good topsoil because of the minerals that are in SOIL that are not in sand and organic matter, so that is a very good amendment. The roses really do love that new fluffy soil you make. Sherry

I have been gardening for years. But I am finding clay very different. You all have been so helpful. I am really glad I started this thread. I can't wait to put it all into action. Only shallow holes for now on and I will only add the compost to top layer right below and with the mulch ;or as the mulch. I have had a worm bin for years. Just a large Rubbermaid chest with holes drilled into sides. Had to buy compost recently though. Couldn't make enough. I am still surprised about what is being said about not putting compost into planting holes. I have heard many times how gardeners do this. It makes sense not to I guess. But could all those gardeners be so wrong?

I'm no expert at amending native soils, but those sizes sound way too big. Wouldn't sand do a better job of increasing drainage? With coarse gravel I'd think the native soil would simply pack into the large pore spaces created by the gravel, leaving you with the same drainage characteristics as when you started. That was my experience when mixing native soil with gravel anyways. I imagine a bit of fine gravel may be useful after sufficient sand has been added, but it seems pointless to mix soils of vastly different particle sizes. -Chris

Kellygelly, I think that you will probably be all right. Your new Miscanthus won't be getting all that huge in the first year or two so flopping shouldn't be an issue. By the third year when you have a giant grass (since it is getting such good dirt), it will have used up some of the nutrients in the soil. Don't add any more! Seth, I find my grasses do fine if planted in 'native soil' as long as it isn't constantly wet or in my case pure sand. The pure sand lacks most nutrients & drys out too fast in the summer. That said, I do have two or three Miscanthus seedlings growing on the side of our gravel road! My theory, if they cost nothing & start small they will grow anywhere! A.