Dax,

'Emperor 1' is from Dick Wolf of Red Maple Nurseries in Media PA. I had seen the plant often on my visits to the nursery and was not able to purchase one until July 1994. Dick did not want to sell the tree while he was applying for a trademark. In their 1993/1994 catalog they state that the tree had been under study for 17 years.

Ed

Here ya go.

Because the name 'Emperor I' is trademarked (and I don't remember right off-hand, but it may be patented as well), there is a lot of confusion in the propagation of this plant. Depending on who you talk to, 'Emperor' and 'Red Emperor' are either the same plant re-named to get around the legalities, or "improvements."

Here is a link that might be useful: Emperor I description

I know that Dick Wolf was attempting to get the plant patented but I don't know if the paperwork was ever completed. The last catalog I am aware of from Red Maples Nurseries list 'Red Emperor' as Maple 440. This was a diferent cultivar. Dick's hand writen note next to that entry states "Lost". This is how he marked plants that he had lost the parent plant.

Some time I will have to order a 'Red Emperor' and grow it side by side with 'Emperor 1' and see if I notice any difference.

Rightly or wrongly, Jacobson, NORTH AMERICAN LANDSCAPE TREES spells the man's name 'Wolff', says "Observed 30 years before being introduced in 1992". He also calls the tree 'Emperor One'.

Thanks folks.

I suppose if it is patented, the timeframe for its patent is probably about up. I'll have to have one of you refresh my memory as to how long it's legal to patent one but my memory wants to tell me that it's either 10 or 20 years tops.

'Emperor I' is of course a great palmatum for my zone as I do get die-back on others which more than anything is an annual prune if anything at all, so I guess that's why I wanted to know more about this cultivar. I suppose it was a seedling as that would be the most likely case.

I don't know anyone around here with one, but in 2001 I worked at a local nursery and we had a dozen or so of them, but that's the only time any nursery around here has sold them. I'll be very curious to see how this palmatum does here, particulary with Winter dieback or late Spring freezes. My 'Seiryu' is growing like a champ. It's at least 10 feet tall now and my japonicum 'Acontifolium' in absolute full exposure void of any microclimate protection gets minimal dieback and almost none on a normal winter. I'm aware of other species that would do well here, but thought I'd comment briefly about what's in my yard and how they do in my climate. Also, Acer griseum...never one bit of dieback; It, like the japonicum, is unprotected. It's now approaching 15 feet and grows like gangbusters what seems like every other year.

I bought a conspicuum 'Phoenix' and a circinatum 'Pacific Fire' last Fall... I'm going to see how well these do here too. I'm a firm believer however, that a few 2-3 years until they fill out a 5-gallon pot or larger is one of the keys to success here. The 'Emperor I'...well, that might be ok to try after a full 1-gallon rootsystem.

Thank you everybody,

Dax

Hi Dax, Ed, and Susan,

Shoosh, don't let anyone know I'm logging on. Billy Schwartz told us that the cultivar is trademarked, but not patented. He hasn't pushed us for Trademark royalties for several years and I spoke with someone who did a Patent/trademark search and found no such Trademark on the name 'Emperor One', but I can't say for certain. For sure, it isn't patented and I know that 'Emperor' and 'Red Emperor' were renames to avoid paying a royalty for the name. I can follow up with Billy and get the real scoop if you want to know for sure whether a royalty is in place.

Hope you all are doing well.

Brian

Often trees described on the USPTO site are not listed under the names they became widely known by later, these being coined subsequently. If you don't have a plant patent number to feed into their plant patent number search function you may have to go through all the possibly applicable profiles to find the one you are after - and then be able to recognize it without its familiar name. Trademarks of course are not considered plant names in the taxonomic sense, but rather devices to sell the plant.

Jacobson (1996) made no mention of trademarking or patents for this cultivar, so if this has been done it was since then.

Good to see you Brian!

A quick check of the Oregon Association of Nurseries' Directory and Buyers Guide shows no less than 34 wholesale nurseries growing this plant. This guide, while not infallible, is generally very careful to note trademark names and patents. None is noted for 'Emperor 1.' My guess is that it's one that just got away, and was so widespread before anyone realized, that many people figure that the TM is a moot point.

A TM without a patent is a difficult thing to manage, since anyone can propagate it, but isn't supposed to market it under the TM name without license. After all the work we've done in the nursery industry to try to consolidate cultivars under one accepted name, it's frustrating to see plants deliberately re-named and adding to the confusion. Another good example of this problem is Iseli Nursery's Picea glauca 'Rainbow's End' (tm). It's out there now under names ranging all the way from 'Rainbow' to "Golden Round-up Overspray'!

"Trade marks used in conjunction with, or apparently as cultivar names cause particular problems when assessing which words constitute a cultivar name and which are a marketing device. It seems that trade mark law is regularly misinterpreted when it comes to plants, since a trade mark is a device to identify goods from a particular source and cannot be used to identify a particular plant. However, the way names are presented on labels and in catalogues often leaves this as the only possible interpretation. Care is therefore needed when quoting trade marks alongside plant names. They are best treated as trade designations, i.e. printed in a different typeface but with the appropriate  or ® suffix."

Here is a link that might be useful: Royal Horticultural Society - RHS Plant Finder: The Naming of Plants

Jacobson says it was a chance seedling.

Vertrees(Gregory) fashions the name 'Emperor I'.

Emperor I (one) and Emperor are different plants. I belive the later, Emperor (possible called Red Emperor at one time) was introduced or primarily sold by Monrovia Nurseries.

Whether or not Red Emperor was an alternate name or either plant or used to get around patent issues I cannot say.

MJH

All JAPANESE MAPLES says (under 'Emperor I') is "'Red Emperor', which also originates from Red Maple Nursery, fits the above decription [of 'Emperor I'] and may be the same cultivar."

Thanks for the discussion everyone!

Dax

So this was never properly straightened out.

Monrovia grafted a bloodgood they found furtherst north. So their plant is not the same as Dick Wolf's intro.