Permanent Container Growing

17 years ago

I know that a 15 to 25 gal container is good temporarily, but can my hydrangeas stay there year after year and still grow to their potential? I'm thinking of moving many of mine out of the ground and into containers where I can control the soil, lighting and moisture (and tree roots) a lot better, but I don't want to compromise on their health and ultimate size that much. What do you think?.......yg

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Comments (9)

morz8 - Washington Coast
17 years ago
I haven't containerized mine, but on good advice, it can be done in the 15 - 25 gal size if you change the bark based potting medium maximum every three years. You might find it necessary to do a little cautious root pruning when refreshing the medium.
yellowgirl
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks morz8....yg
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I use a private nursery blend that is composed of compost, builders course sand and finely ground pine bark mulch. I add Perlite because the pine bark mulch eventually breaks down and I still want a crumbly mix. Also it has been my experience with the Miracle-Gro pre-fertilized type products that they are usually stocked outside and are open to the eliments . The bags are perforated with small holes to allow air to get in. Good idea at first glance, but that also means that moisture from rain or the sprinkler systems can also get inside the bag causing the fertilzer to become active. If you look at the bags of Miracle Gro products left outside you will see that many of the fertilizer granules are already expanded. On annuals it's not that important, on my roses that I intend to get many many years out of I like to start out with the best potting mix available even if it is more expensive or more effort. BTW, I've used the Walmart brand (like Miracle Gro) potting mix on my annuals and it is every bit as good as Miracle Gro( and can also have the same problems). I have not checked out the ORGANIC type potting mix some have mentioned, but again I would double check to make sure that the fertilizer problem has been addressed.
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Leava, We drill a ton of holes into the bottom of the molasses feed tubs. Tim does it for me and he usually drills them all about the size of a dime. It is very important for the water to be able to drain well. Excessively moist soil causes more problems in terms of disease than soil that drains well. To prevent the soil-less mix from draining out of the bottom of the containers, I cut a layer of landscape fabric in the shape of the tub and put it inside on the bottom of the tub before filling it with a growing medium. You can use any soil-less mix that is high-quality and drains well. Remember that purchased soil-less mixes are, by nature, sterile and contain no nutrition to speak of unless the manufacturer has added some sort of nutrient/fertilizer to the mix. For many years, I largely made my own using Al's 5-1-1 formula from the Container Forum, although I tended to substitute other organic material (generally home-made compost, mushroom compost or thoroughly composted cow manure) for the peat moss. Now there also is an Al's Gritty Mix that is similar....but different (of course). For pine bark fines I used a bagged product sold at Home Depot that often is labeled as Soil Conditioner. It is just a mix of humus and bark fines. While many people on the Container Forum search high and low for just the right ingredients, I just do the best I can with what I find readily available in stores near me. By "near me", I generally mean at stores in Ardmore or Gainesville, either of which is dozens of miles round trip because there are no stores actually near me that carry gardening supplies. 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That means that in years when I expect extra-heavy rain, I try to make a mix that drains extra well or in years when I expect constant dought, I try to make a mix that retains water better than usual. Remember that I also layered old, half-rotted wood from our woodland at the bottom of each molasses tub to help nourish the microbe herd in the container so that organic fertilizers would be effective. The old half-rotted wood soaks up moisture and holds it really well, so that's a case of killing two birds with one stone. Sometimes I just buy and use Miracle Grow soil-less mix. When I do that, I prefer the Moisture Control one because our summers here tend to be very hot and far too dry, so the plants in containers need all the help they can get when it comes to moisture retention. While I prefer to garden mostly organically, I don't have a problem using a soil-less mix with a pelleted sythetic fertilizer in it. 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Because they are sold in bags, air flow often is restricted while they are in the bags and dangerous microbes can grow in the mix inside the bags including the ones that cause Legionnaire's disease. Just by handling the mixes with your bare hands, you can contract some really nasty diseases, including some fungal diseases that are almost impossible to get rid of once you have them. I've heard some real horror stories over the years. Finally, I have had the best success with container gardening of veggies in the summer when I have put them on a drip irrigation kit and a timer. That ensures they get watered enough when I'm busy canning or away at wildfires a lot. While I prefer to stand and water them with a hose so I can check the moisture level in each container before watering it, the reality is that doing that often takes up more time than I have. 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patsums
17 years ago
yellowgirl, How big are your plants that you want to put into pots? I am in Orlando also and would like to know what varieties do well for you. My best is Ayesha. I would think the pots would keep the size small.
Pat
hayseedman
17 years ago
Yg, that Hydrangea that is first pictured in the Hayseedman Overwintering thread has been in that 15 or so gallon pot for years. Maybe five years? I don't know what the soil is, but I bet I had dug it out of the ground after it had been there for years and that the soil is mostly just plain garden soil. I'm always thinking that it's going to show some problems of stress, but it just keeps right on going.

What would have happened if this had been typical potting soil? I don't really know.

The height of my plants in containers don't seem to be any smaller at all in comparison to those in the ground. They're surely constrained in their ultimate width, but you can get a huge crown in a 15 gallon pot.

They can get very heavy. I think a 15 gallon pot is about the limit that a stong person can barely move around. (If a pint's a pound then if the pot and soil weighed as much as water you'd be talking on the order of 200 pounds for a 25 gallon pot if my math is right. And down in Florida, you're not going to have a plastic snow sled to move it around.

Even with a five or ten gallon pot, you can get large plants.

You might want to try using plain ole black plastic pots. I think you know I use them a lot. You can set them in the border and if you have plants around and in front of them the black plastic pot will almost disappear to the eye.

Another nice thing about pots is that it elevates the plant.

Good luck. I love growing them in pots.

Hay.
yellowgirl
Original Author
17 years ago
duh....I totally forgot that you grow most of yours in pots Hay. What I was really worried about was size as I don't want them to look like 'potted plants' in my garden. Thanks for reminding me about yours. And no, I don't own the handy dandy plastic sled but perhaps a plain old hand truck will do. (or maybe a surfboard?)

Pat..I have about 35 hydrangeas (some repeats) that include Nikko Blues (ofcourse, my old reliables), Endless Summer, Alpengluhen / Glowing Embers, Veitchii, Shooting Star/Hanabi/Fuji Waterfall,(very happy) Lilacina (exceptional for a lacecap with longevity), Madame Emile Mouillere (another fav), Ami Pasquir, Generale Vicomtess DeVibraye, Mousseline, and some other unlabeled varieties. I also have oakleaf hydrangeas - Alice, SnowQueen (the best) and the species oakleaf. I have a few Limelight paniculatas (stay away from the paniculatas down here, performance is very 'iffy') and a climbing Anomala Petiolaris (if you want a climber, down here the Seamanii would be happier and it's not deciduous). That's all I can think of right now. I don't own Ayesha,(yet) but I'm glad to hear it's doing well down here. Oh yeah, I planted 2 Annabelles last year, got one bloom this year with ratty foliage and unless she does better when I put her in a container, she's outta here. The plants that I am thinking about potting, range from 2 - 4 yrs old and anywhere from 2x2 to 3x4.

As if this post isn't long enough....

Did anyone see George Bush's anouncement this morning from the White House? I could hardly pay attention to the message because behind him were two large containers of blue and white lacecaps that looked good enough to eat!!

Thanks again everyone for the input. I think I'll try it and see what happens......yg
ego45
17 years ago
YG, just for your reference, 15G pot with 3'+ hydrangea planted in an equal mix of gardensoil/peat/potting soil weight exactly 95 lbs in semi-dry winter conditions. Add 12-15 lbs for after watering. I wish I could say, add another 15 lbs for flowers, hehe.
Good luck with your endeavor.
yellowgirl
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks George!! That's very funny. I take it that you have just such a specimen but how in the world did you get it on the bathroom scale? LOL...

Since all of my container soil will be coming from the store, could someone elaborate on the different types (bark based potting medium, garden soil, potting soil, peat, etc.) and the purpose for each. Obviously moisture retainage (and acidity) is a big issue for me. Before this post, I was planning on just buying more Moisture formula Miracle Grow soil. I have had great luck with it, but have never kept hydrangeas in it long-term. Is that not sufficient?......yg
jenny_in_se_pa
17 years ago
Hey yg! Everything I have is in pots including a pee gee that was transplanted to a 14" container last year. The pee gee was a 1 gallon baby and is 4 years old now. I progressively potted it to the current size and it finally bloomed for the first time last year (yay!). I almost bought an Endless Summer from HD yesterday (LOL) but am holding out for another paniculata - 'Quick Fire'.

I always plant in some kind of soiless mix and of late have been using Promix. The HDs around here have been selling the 2.3 cu ft compressed bales for $15 - $20 (depending on sale prices) and that can give you a good amount to pot up with. Promix or Farfard are mixes that many wholesale nurseries use for their container greenhouse stock.

If you want acidity, mix in about 1/3rd peat (I generally only use 1/2 peat-1/2 soiless for acid lovers like blueberries, etc). If you want to maintain the acidity, you can use Hollytone, which contains elemental sulfur. To retain moisture, I mulch the hydrangea in the pot (using licorice root or rotating with shredded oak leaves as I manage to get them from my sisters' yards). The mix itself has wood chips and vermiculite to retain moisture, although I find the top will sometimes dry quickly (but the mix is still moist deeper down).
yellowgirl
Original Author
17 years ago
Hi Jen in SE PA,

Boy, have I been thinking a lot about PA lately.
I missed out on my annual Spring trip to NJ/PA this year and I really miss it. I love to kayak down the Delaware River (Water Gap) and do some horseback riding. I'll miss out on the fall trip as well as I am conserving all of my resourses (present and future) for my dream trip to Italy in September. I will, however be coming up to Bethlehem PA (to get my fix) for Christmas so that's some consolation. Hope there's snow!! Anyway....

Thanks for the advise. I don't know where my head is, as I also should have remembered that you are a city container gardener.
What is the benefit of using a soiless mix vs soil? Does it keep the roots from getting bound? Is it a price$$ issue? Don't the plants need the nutrients from the soil? Forgive my ignorance, but I usually just plop mine in the ground and ammend with cow manure, holly tone and such so I don't know much about the different potting mediums and the plusses and minuses of each type. Appreciate the help....yg

Permanent Container Growing

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morz8 - Washington Coast

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Permanent Container Growing

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morz8 - Washington Coast

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