You seem to have a decent cam, could you get us a true macro from the bottom of the leafs? As close as you can get (1-2mm) and if possible (if this isn't too demanding) lit up with extra light from a flashlight? As the lens will cast some unwanted shadow for sure then. ;-)

It is a cheap casio but it does macros pretty well. I'll get those shots tonight for you.

Thanks

It looks to me like a magnesium deficiency. Foliar spray with some epsom salt at 1Tbs. per gallon.

Hey Urbangardenfarmer -

Why am I having so many deficiency issues? It seems that I must have a poor nutrient formulation. I have never had these issue until recently and now I can't get past them. Any thoughts on the use of Pure Blend Pro Bloom and CalMag?

Thanks

Lucas -

Here are the links to the pepper leaves.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/scottsearls/Pepper%20pics/CIMG3774.jpg
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/scottsearls/Pepper%20pics/CIMG3771.jpg
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/scottsearls/Pepper%20pics/CIMG3772.jpg
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/scottsearls/Pepper%20pics/CIMG3774.jpg

Thanks

Hey scotty, in my previous grows with pure blend pro, I found that it doesn't work as well in hydro than in soiless medium in pots(pro-mix). I'm not sure why, but I think it has to do with the organic elements in the nutrient solution. It's tough to get a balance between the microbes and the nutrients, because the bacteria don't have enough surface area to colonize. I'm lead to believe that in order to grow organically in hydroponics, you need to add a bio-filter to the reservoir. The filter acts as a "home base" for the beneficials and gives them more surface area to colonize.

Back to the topic, pepper leaves are definitely finicky. I've been having trouble lately also. It makes me want to pull my hair out. But at the same time, they're producing peppers, so I try not to worry too much. One thing lucas told me to do which I think is helping, is hand watering with beneficial bacteria. Ever since I've been using it, the plants have shown improvements. It's also helped with the fungus gnats.

What do you think about Liquid Karma? I really want to keep this simple but the PBP and calmag combo is just not working. I have been in touch with the manufacturer but they have ceased to really help me much. In their defense, I have really tasked them with the issues. I had decided to ignore it all but these problems lead to blossom drop and poor yields. The toms are just awful and look like they're about to give up on me.

I am looking for a way to finally solve this crazy problem. I got information from the local hydro store that I am still over watering. Since switching to the raindrip type of drippers, I may in fact be overwatering still since they output a larger 360 degree pattern in the bucket. I'd like to stay as natural as possible so the PBP and Liquid Karma may be a path. In addition, he recommended superthrive. Never used it so any input on it would be great.

My lettuce issues have basically disappeared after lowering the ratio of PBPG to calmag. I am now only 1 part calmag to every 4 parts PBPG. It was an instant change. I was hoping for a similar response on the toms and peppers but no such luck.

Anyway, if you've got any ideas or experience on the liquid karma and superthrive, I'm all ears.

Thanks

if you just add 4g of epsom salts per 5 gallons of nutrient solution, magnesium deficiency will cease to be an issue.

Hi Fellows!

I am not all in with magnesium deficiency here, not really my first guess.
Sorry scotty (due to the fact that I am not a native writer in English) I didn't express things perfectly well.

What I suggested were actually Macro CLOSE UPS, (from a distance of 1-2millimeter = 1/64") actually as close as you can get, - and from the backside of the leafs. Because I suspect thrips or other suckers to (still or again) be active here. I thought that with a good macro, you could detect (and identify) them yourself. They are though and can be very resistant if you do not use the right "weapons".

Mg- deficiency commonly goes along with-, actually starts with some inter-veinal chlorosis and develops necrotic spots and areas eventually.

Yes, the watering issue - as I call it "irregular watering".
Well, I know this circular dripping of clay pebbles is quite popular and some people have good results with it. But I suspect that it really isn't the best choice nor match for peppers. They are probably not liking that kind of irrigation. In fact I believe they simply grow best in Ebb/Flow systems with longer intervals for flooding. Hence, what peppers prefer/need is a good "shot" only from time to time and after that an extended drain period - period ;-)

Urban and lucas -

Thanks for all your inputs. It appears that I was lucky the last time I grew them. They were in the same buckets and I couldn't keep up with the fruit. It goes to show that you can never think you've got it.

I will have to say that I am fed up with the Botanicare products right now. I sent the water, water with nutes and some leaf samples off for analysis and it turns out I am seriously deficient on cal, mg, pot and sul. The nutes in the tank showed very low reading for all of the deficiency problems I am encountering. So much for the organics route. I am getting a synthetic fertilizer and will not look back. I think the organics show promise, but the scale at which I'm growing is not conducive to the use of these products.

I should note that I am using the product as advertised by them and recommended over the phone. Everyone worked really hard on this and I am very appreciative. The long and short is I cannot be fighting these very basic nute def. around the clock.

Not sure about the insect infestation. I have had this issue when starting the plants in the dead of winter. I am totally indoors so I will have to educate myself on the possibilities of this occuring during that time.

Confusion, more confusion and so on....

Thanks for all your input!!

hydroscotty;
Remember plants don't care if their food is organic or synthetic. It all has to be converted to ions before they can absorb them. Ultimately what you feed them doesn't make what you eat more or less organic. Now the whole "carbon footprint" type issue on how each is derived is an entirely seperate issue that you may or may not be concerned with. If you are then I suggest you search the forum and read many of greystokes thread responses. he tells you how to get calcium from eggshell, micronutes from wood ashes, and nitrogen from urine (I believe)

Hey gizzman -

I don't think I'm quite driven enough to do like greystroke does. I am slowly coming to the realization about what plants eat and what they output as a result. I am very comfortable with the switch to synthetics. I think the more natural product will continue to advance and I'll keep looking into them but for now I need something that works.

Thanks to all for your help. We'll see how this goes.

I understand. greystoke does it his way out of necessity. he doesn't have the availability we have in the states.

Dont give up the organics (not endorsing it or ragging on it, its just i had my best peppers with pure blend)... Peppers are what i grow the most of. I use botanicare pure blend pro grow, this is just my opinion.

What i can tell you is i did alot of reading on what others did for peppers. What i do seems to be different than most. It looks like ur using buckets (drip)? that didnt work so well for me. I switched to nft. with a larger resevoir (40 gallon).

I never switched my nutes, i used Grow from start to finish. When i had the "damp" leaf look i used H2O2 every couple days. ( are your roots brown or sludgy at all?) They should be pretty white. When i had that yellow spotting (leeching) i did a couple things, first i stopped pumping in nutrients ( litterally let the nutes run out running just water and H2O2), then i made up a batch of nutrient solution stronger than usual, gave it a week and never had the problem again. This all happened my first year and what i really did was experiment do someting and document the result. The tweaking and learning are what i enjoy about this hobby.

It may have been a fluke but its what i did when using botanicare, i had very few problems with it.

Hey hydro esox -

Thanks for the encouragement. I do not intend to completely abandon the idea. I will still do some work on the side but I am selling the small amount I do grow to the local markets. They want more and more but I seem to continue with problems. While I've improved significantly, the cost is becoming very prohibitive.

Just for the lettuce to work, I have to run PBPG, Liquid Karma, Calmag and hygrozyme. If you look at the cost of all this, it is WAY too high. As lucas pointed out, the balance is also off. I have to figure out how to get this balance back in a larger scale operation.

I've heard that peppers have had issues in the dutch buckets more than once. Most recommend ebb and flow but your nft technique is interesting. I did this about 2+ years ago but the roots kept plugging the tube.

The one issue I have with the H2O2 is its oxidizing nature and organics. I believe H2O2 with tear down all the organics around your roots. Anyway, I will experiment on the hobby system while I grow product in the main system with the synthetics for now. I'm sure I'll get it but don't want it under the pressure of deliveries.

Thanks

hydro_scotty,

You may have misunderstood the actual issue that came with your choice. I indeed pointed out that the balance is off - it actually is way off. But that is as a matter of facts, due to the wrong choice of the formula. As I said, the much better choice was indeed the grow formula. The Bloom formula is not suited to be used as a base nutrient. Here in Asia (not loosing or saving) face is a very important thing, hence I will put it that way: you may have fell victim of bad consulting of a retailer or been listening to the wrong person or people.

I understand your concern, your decision for a change and even your frustration, I guess. But please realize and understand for the sake of it, that from my perspective, the actual reason for the trouble consisted in the wrong choice of the formula, (bloom instead of grow) and not because of the brand or the fact that it is "organic".

How's your Ph? Do you measure and record Ph readings?
Could be nutrient lock-out.

Lucas -

I followed exactly what the expert growers at Botanicare suggested. They said they were growing with that formula and offered me the pH and ppm (I know more about the deficiency of ppm measurements now and will be switching to EC). BTW...I was having the same issues with the grow as I am with the bloom.

I will still work on the formula outside of the production plants. All suggestions welcome on concentrations to add per 100 gallon tank.

Thanks

Lucas -

I copied the description of the bloom below along with the grow. I am not seeing the large discepancy in the nitrogen you mention. Even if it was there, the CalMag is a 2-0-0 formulation which adds more nitrogen to the mix.

Pureblend Pro, Bloom - Fruit & Flower Formula (2.5-2-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom Formula (2.5 - 2 - 5) is a stand-alone, one part hydro-organic vegetative and fruit / flower formula

Pureblend Pro, Grow - Vegetative (3-1.5-4)

I only place all this on here because I'd love to make this work but keep falling short based on input I've received from the manufacturer. They will not give me break downs in ppm or EC of the major components. I can't say I blame them but it adds to the complication I am having to reach the right balance. Every nute formulation is different so which is the right one????

I am open to all input from this forum on how much PBP bloom/grow they use in their gardens successfully.

Thanks

I am also including botanicare's feeding chart.

http://www.botanical.com/hydro/nutrients/BotanicareFeedSchedule_0507.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: Botanicare feeding chart

Hi scotty,

Firstly, I must have stumbled upon some outdated and partially wrong data, that wrongly says:
Pure Blend Pro Grow (NPK: 2-1.5-4)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom (NPK: 1.5-4-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom Soil Formula (NPK: 1.5-4-5)

The info I (wrongly) based on provides from here: http://www.4hydroponics.com/nutrients/pureblendpro.asp

I guess this is the former formulation they have changed to "the better", combined with some mistake at the website, truth to be told.

I didn't know either that Cal-Mag and Cal-Mag+ had 2-0-0 nitrogen. Cal-mag isn't Calmag as it seems. But then again you just use it about 1/4 proportionally to the nutrients, don't you? Only a minor part of that is water soluble: Nitrate Nitrogen (N).....1.94% - 0.06% Water Soluble Nitrogen (N)

The really funny part is that Botanicare Cal-Mag isn't organic as it uses calcium nitrate. On top of that, EDTA chelated iron (as other chelated t.e). are the only ingredients used in hydroponic nuitrients that you actually can/must call synthetic. All other components commonly used in "inorganic nutrients" are chemically processed and transformed, but per definition not synthetic.
I actually thought "Cal-Mag" was "organic" and that calcium was provided by dissolved calcium carbonate or some purely mineral based Ca!

Still and although some misunderstandings that were due to inaccurate infos I did base on, 1. the N-content isn't improved wit Cal-Mag, 2. the phosphorus content in the Bloom formula is still to high for my understanding. 3. Don't know what they're thinking, actually.

The feeding schedule:

I don't comprehend that either. The change from week 3 to 4,
from 7.5/7.5 Grow/Bloom to 20 Bloom is just a mystery to me. What could possibly have changed from week 3-4?! And just a week later increasing to 25 Bloom, what would that be good for?

Very little phosphorus is contained and dissolved in most soils - and plants have adopted to this fact since the Oligocene epoch, if not earlier - LOL!

Sorry, I have to give up on this...

Lucas -

I 100% understand your giving up on this. I have been just as confused as you. I have tried to stay organic but the only offering to make up for the low 1% calcium and .5% mag in the grow and bloom formulas was the calmag.

I have thrown the towel in and will switch to a new nutrient. Thanks for taking the time to research with me as I don't feel quite as crazy anymore.

Take care.