Looking good, congrats on the results so far.

This is ridiculous to the point of absurdity. Every time you flush your toilet, you are flushing down a gallon of... how did you call it.. 'power packed chemical induced nutrient chemical mix' (also, bonus points for redundancy). And the waste water treatment plants are designed to deal with it. And, i don't know about you, but i DEFINITELY use the washroom more then 6 times in two weeks. Furthermore an average water plant (that of Port Dalhousie) processes an average of 35000 m^3 worth of waste water per day. To put that into perspective, that's 35 million liters of waste water per day. If it hasn't been raining. My 25l every 2 weeks is literally less then a drop in a bucket. Furthermore, the biological processes in a waste water plant, (and also your lawn) go: FERTILIZER!!! NOM NOM NOM, and completely consume it, like a fat kid on a smartie.

And for crying out loud it's FERTILIZER. Not arsenic, or lead. Fertilizer. You could drink that water, and it wouldn't hurt you. Bonus points of the pictures of sludge though, very emotional. And my water, after two weeks? still looks crystal clear. Why does your water look like crap there?? If you were to drink water from a stream, you would be drinking all the same nutrients, just slightly less concentrated. Not to mention, all plants contain all these nutrients!! Your probably gonna eat them!

And as I said before there is a LOT of nutrient in the ground. Think about how much nutrient would be required to fertilize 1000 acres, instead of our piddly little operations. Now, think about how in a forest, those nutrients are there and get rained on ALL THE TIME. AND YET THE WORLD LIVES. I wonder why? Could it be... it's not a problem? *DING* Yes!

And the only proof anyone has that fertilizer does any damage to anything at all, is that fertilizer runoff causes algae blooms in the ocean. So, in all fairness, don't dump your fertilizer in the ocean. Because it's fertilizer. So, it makes stuff grow. Which is a problem in the ocean because it deprives the lower ocean of oxygenated water, because the bloom will suck all the oxygen out of the water.

I appreciate that you are on this eco-hippy saving the world bit. But your efforts have no basis in reality.

That is all.
-Steve

I'm sorry but where is my logic flawed. Flawed logic doesn't produce nor is it repeatable. If I said something wrong point it out. Pointing out what others do wrong doesn't exscuse us because we do it a little bit less. That's why I'm here if there's flaws point them out.

Indeed Grizzman, I am talking about dumping small quantities of nutrient from hobbyists. Not large commercial growing operations. Small amounts that barely dampen the top 4 inches of soil, and provided you don't do so during or before a rain storm, are not going to cause a problem. Especially since you are dumping water that is nitrogen depleted, not full strength fertilizer. Perhaps I should have included those caveats, but I did feel it was clear that that was what I, and most others were doing.

I would argue however, that most fertilizer run off is in fact runoff, and not leaching through to the water table. You fertilize, and you get a big rain storm that plows through the area, and surface water containing leached fertilizer runs down to streams, into rivers, and then into oceans or lakes. Virtually every farm in North America has a well close to fertilized fields, and nitrogen in drinking water isn't a problem in most of them, unless surface water can run straight into the well, which causes a host of other problems.

The flaw in your logic Georgeiii, is that you mistakenly believe that depleted left over fertilizer water will cause any damage if you spread it on your lawn, or if you dump it down the drain. In hobbyist amounts, this won't cause any problem or environmental damage. If you are using organic fertilizer, all the better. As grizzman said, this equation changes if you are using massive quantities in a commercial grow op. Then you should take steps to deal with it properly, perhaps running you effluent to an aerated settling tank, and allowing algae to consume nitrogen there, before spreading the dead algae and leftover waste water on fields.

That you can grow stuff with your system is a testament to the virility of nature, and it's ability to persevere despite poor conditions, not that you have an amazing system that uses next to no water, and produces great results. Because you have no reset point, you have no idea what the nutrient concentrations are of anything. Your plants could be running out of nitrogen 6 hours after you feed, or there could be excess nitrogen, and until the plants show signs of stress, you'd never know. Having a periodic flush resets the nutrient levels, and allows me to say with absolute certainty, that at this moment, there is 'X' nitrogen concentration.

The only advantage of your system is that it does limit water use. If you are in an area where water is scarce that is a plus.

A though occurred to me as I was thinking about this.

If you are in a situation in which you cannot dispose of your waste water safely, you probably have everything you need to treat it safely yourself!

Simple take a large container, empty your fertilized water into it, keep it uncovered, and open to the light, and aerate it. Algae will form and use all the waste fertlizer. You can then either spread the algae on your garden after it dies, put it in your compost pile or throw it out.

Note: It might smell badly...

Either way, you'd basically lock all the synthetic nitrogen into the organic components in the algae making it safer, and ensuring that you don't contaminate someones drinking water with nitrogen.

That will work regardless of if you use Georgii's pod system, NFT, DWC, etc... It's not quite up to the standards of a true waste water treatment plant, but it would be very effective at reducing nitrogen.

{{gwi:54539}}

Please nothing we do with hydroponics is about Nature. This is a man made Creation that took plants out of Natures control and into ours. That picture of corn shows how dependant hydro plants are on us. If we flip off the switch it wonÂt matter how much it rains outside those plants will dry up. No, no this is like cage raised chickens only they donÂt squawk as much. We control everything about the plants we grow. Hell most of the plants grown hydroponiclly never even feel the sun. As for the concentrations I know them in the space where their suppose to be. What you donÂt understand is thatÂs thereÂs no fertilizer in the water or very, very little. The roots in the water arenÂt there for fertilizer, their there for the air.
As for a reset point I donÂt have one unless I repot (and donÂt I say that so easy). ThereÂs none of the problems your talking of. Tho the idea for waste water for other who grow as you do is useful.

I think what everyone is getting at, georgie, is that you NEED nutrients to grow plants. Its not just plausable, its fact. You can give plants sunlight but they need the nutrients in order for chloroplasts to make use of the sunlight or artificial light. The thing is, the plants get there nutrients from there roots not the leaves. Leaves are for sunlight absorption and as a means to gather rain water. Merely soaking the upper portions of the plant will not work. Ask anyone who has taken an intro level biology course. I realize you are only spraying onto the plant and thats great, however, your plants seem to be growing very slowly.

If your about the environment then you must be worried about how much water we constantly use.. right? How much more water are you using just to keep those plants barely alive? Wait you prolly dont get that statement. How much water are you using for no yield of fruit or beneficial herbs and veggies? None from the pics I see. You tried making hydroponics seem sinister somehow by using your corn example.. why are you even trying to grow hydroponically then bro?? It doesnt add up. Really think about your goal here and realistic expectations without disregarding scientific facts... ie. plants need nutrients!!!

Even with pictures people refuse to see. Where did I say anywhere that these plants weren't getting nutrients. They get a shot every third day. A simple squrit thru the top. And how come you guy's keep making these blanket statements like:

"The thing is, the plants get there nutrients from there roots not the leaves."

Of course plants take in nutrients thru their leaves but that's not how it's done with my method. It's statements like that makes me want to ingnore you because it basic lack of knowledge of the subject your talking about. Stop trying to think about it and look. The pictures shows how the plant looked when it was transplanted. What it looked like when it faded. What it looked like when it recovered. There's notes on the time scale. There's pictures from beginning to end on every part of what's going on. Worse yet nearly everything I talk about is free or very little cost and you don't even give it a try. If something this easy is a problem for you please stay with what your doing. Now someone once accused me of a lack of history with hydrponics or with plants so let me introduce myself. My parental given name is George Davis, my Earth given name is Christian Warlock. IÂm an Artist, Photographer, Capricorn, Humanist, Meta-Morph, Computer Nerd and Plant Person. Thru the Magical transformation of the fabrication of Art I get things of beauty to grow. IÂll even tell you the spell I use. The toxicity level of the three main root types, air, water and medium are directly proportional to their reproductive capacity and inversely proportional to their degree of differenseation. With those few words I get plants to grow, look me up on photobucket, there about a thousand pictures on every thing to do with plants. Do a search on georgeiii right here on GardenWeb. There's five years here. Now if you bothered to read what I said you'd know this is something new. Just an idea that works. Please look me up and you can see all the veggies, herbs and flowers you want to see

' I realize you are only spraying onto the plant and thats great, however, your plants seem to be growing very slowly.'

The above statement was from my post georgie. I know where your putting the nutrients your plants are getting, I acknowledged it.

Im glad your artistic. That is great. What does that have to do with growing plants? To each his own, but without nutrients for the roots, not the stems or leaves, those plants will never grow as they should. Hocus pocus just doesnt work on plants, unfortunatly. Otherwise getting a degree in plant or microbiology would be a waste of time. Trust me, its eveident your plants are growing but they are doing so very slowly. They did die however. Why do you think they did? Honsetly, why??

You seem to not want to take in what anyone is telling you George. Otherwise you wouldn't make remarks about OUR ignorance, when in fact you are the one who is ignoring our statements! Just so you know, I like your setup. You seem like a cool guy. Just dont understand why you want to grow plants at such a slow rate? To prove its possible?! Haha, thats fine and dandy but I dont quite see the point.

Oh and I dont appreciate how you ignored my statement about the amount of water you are wasting for no yield.

Look georgeiii, I am a kind of "senior artist" myself, have a proper artistic education that I acquired in several art schools and academies (in 3 countries). I actually have had what they call an artistic career, have also been an art teacher for kids and adults (disabled children as well) That was 20 years ago and I guess I still know at least something about art.

As far as my understanding of Art goes, in the best case art should be self-explanatory and the observer should recognize either the expression, the message, the feeling or what ever is transmitted by the artist. In the very best case, the observer should even spontaneously recognize himself in the art. Although some art isn't understood nor accessible by a majority, I guess it's useless to explain or defend your Art and work extensively. Either your audience get it or they don't. Otherwise, it's like a comedian explaining his jokes to the audience, when the expected reaction and laughters don't drop. Nahhhh... ;-)

Also remember: "Ars gratia artis", ''l'art pour l'art'', "Art for art's sake"

Now, if you mix-up art, gardening and science, it's not necessarily a bad idea or thing to do - but if eventually you need to extensively explain and defend "what you are actually doing", you'll obviously run in some controversial dialog with the observer(s). Do you see the actual paradox here or not?

I guess it had been a good idea anyway, to introduce your project properly and also frame it according to your audience (to hydroponosts). If you had introduced your "work" as a cross between Art and science in the first place and put your project in the right context, you may have been able to avoid all these actually normal reactions. Remember: Action -> Reaction....

Unless of course, it's part of your artistic concept to provoke strong reactions among your audience LOL...which is OK with me anyways.

As I said earlier, I am not bothered with the controversy this mix actually represents and hence I am not going to engage in any subjective discussion here. Because it's a cross between Art and science it can hardly be discussed from one single point of view. Without any arrogance, I also believe it actually can't be discussed properly at this place and with this group. Don't get me wrong here: there is nothing wrong with targeting this audience with your project, - but then again you have to cope with the reactions - as in fact they are understandable.

As an artist, you should be able to defending your work, right - but don't forget the actual goal, which is hopefully and in the first place "Ars gratia artis" ;-)

Okay so your saying you don't understand what. How the plants get their nutrients? You never know what people know untill you talk to them.
Now do you know of the adhesion, cohesion and gravity properties of Perilite. If not there's an excellent explaination of water movement over on the container gardening forum.
Do you know of transition layer. The space it takes for roots to change from one to another. Or the reason I picked those plants because of their different root types and how they would respond to wet enviroments. Which would tell me how other plants with the same root structure would behave. Am I taking for granted that you already know these things. And please it's just a question.

You know georgeiii, you have a REAL problem with listening to other peoples advice. You have a one tract mind, which in the end, get's you nowhere. To ask lucas if he know's how plants get their nutrients, just show's how ignorant you really are. The smartest thing you've wrote yet was naming this post "The Dark Garden".

haaahaaa urbangarderfarmer lucas seems quite comfortable with themselves. lucas understood the different aspects that when into creating the different gardens I grow. You on the other hand feel threatened by the questions you can't answer and to afraid to ask. But please snarl away, it's broadband, there's room

Maybe you should have stated: "Or the reason I picked those plants because of their different root types and how they would respond to wet enviroments. Which would tell me how other plants with the same root structure would behave" --- at the beggining of this post.

This would have stated your goal clearly unlike your vague title and first posts did. This is constructive criticism by the way, not an attempt to attack you on an intellectual level or something..

George, if you read this far then I compliment you! You're listening to someones post which is why people post on forums.. to read what other people have to say.. Anyways, I think thats a great idea to see the "bare bones" of how roots grow and how the different types of roots react to pretty much air and water. Great concept for an advanced grower who wants to learn more.

Your first post does, at the end, state a little bit of your experiment. However the bulk of your introduction was constructed in regards to the environment and how hydroponics with nutes, if improperly dealt with, can hurt the environment.

Heres proof of that : George stated, "Yes I know IÂve always said that Hydroponics is a huge problem with the environment. That the waste water created ,specially with the number of people that only has the drain as their disposial. Those numbers are in the millions. So with that in mind I want to offer something different. Hydroponics with out the nutrient mix. Plants grown in plain water with aeration"

This statement is clearly way off target from what your true intentions forthis experiment are. You want to study root growth rather than provide an environmentally friendlier way to grow things.. am I right? I deduced that idea from this statement: ". Or the reason I picked those plants because of their different root types and how they would respond to wet enviroments. Which would tell me how other plants with the same root structure would behave"

If I am wrong here tell me exactly why, please. Dont beat around the bush telling me about art or something.

And if the environment is REALLY why you started this experiment, you still havent considered the amount of water your using in your experiment which puts a carbon footprint onto the earth bro!! You still havn't replied to this fact, even after my 2 former posts.

Why are you trying to find some way of limiting what this experiment entails. Why does it have to be one thing. Why can't it be many at the same time. The root thing was to give others a starting point with mulitile types of plants. Your just mincing words to what...tell me your upset? If your looking for a foot print the informations right above. The problem here is you don't understand and it irks you. So instead of being an adult and say "I don't understand" you make noise and show it to everybody. If there's something you don't understand just say so. Swallow your pride dude everybody sits in the I don't understand chair once and a while.

wow! I learned a couple of things here, but looks like it is time to move on as well.

There is nothing to understand here. Do you really think your reinventing the wheel? The only thing I'm threatened by george, is becoming dumber by reading another one of your posts!

Nice attempt to use reverse psychology.

I used YOUR own words to confirm what YOU said YOUR trying to do and posted them using quotations to provide proof of what YOU stated this experiment was about.

Its your inability to listen which is the immature thing here; It is obviously something which you don't understand how to do. OR maybe you are too insecure to be able to take criticism?? In fact this topic you have posted is making less and less sense over time to me because essentially one posts on this forum to be criticized, whether positive or negative, to see what others think of your idea (which I will remind you, people have not been positive and for a good reason). You should be using this site to show people ideas. You have said that your system is cheap, ok, how did you do it? Hey hey hey, theres a question for you which is what you wanted right? Nobody understood your idea because it wasn't clearly defined in your first post which is CRUCIAL for people who are reading to see what your talking about here guy. Considering that you have been a member here at Garden Web for 5 years,I would think you understand the concept of why you share things with people on these forums... either to ask a question... or to get ideas and feedback from other people.. which you were shooting for the latter.. I assume.. but heck with it your obviously trying to use some kind of transformation, magic, capricorn wand to convey your message to us rather than typing it. (right?!) Quit reflecting your angers onto me, please. Sorry that your so hopeless... all I was getting at is that you didn't clearly define what you wanted to discuss in your topic here... which is why --not one person-- has understood and tried giving you advice... which you immediatly have taken as a threat instead of seeing through the delusion of what you wanted this topic to be, and what you really made it. listen instead of impulsively replying to the first thing you read and disagree about. im done wasting my time.

The previous post starting with "Okay so your saying you don't understand what. " wasn't addressed to me, or was it? I didn't see ANY connection to what I was saying earlier about the Art part or else.

Also, I am not feeling concerned (and I recommend the same for others) if someone is trying to suggest things one didn't actually say or do. As in "Okay your saying blah-blah". You can't put any of your words in other peoples mouth and then wrap an argument around it.

Most importantly, I don't feel any urge to ask people questions who do not seem to ask me any either but prefer assuming what I think, quit pro quo applies in that case.

I actually didn't want to do this, but now georgie you leave me not much choice - so let's face some facts: your not very sincere and honest with us about your technique and your experiment. Because you add just "a little" nutrient, spray a little here and who knows, drop some tiny magic crumb there, when we turn our backs. What's the EC and exact analyses of your base water after using all the MAGIC AND ART anyways? ;-)

You have fun with it, that's just fine and you even have interesting results, which is even better. You like to share your stuff and that's great too. But please do me a favor and don't sell it as something it actually is'nt. It's not good enough to mix some artistic background, a pinch of science, selective observation and a few half truths that are compensated with lots of rhetoric to make something look and sound plausible. For the sake of science and for the sake of art, please get it down to earth and back to what it actually is Dude: you having fun and selling as some miracle and great art, which is actually pottering and messing around with innocent plants ;-)

Now that's what I call tearing apart something (not someone yet, though) that really, really was calling for it.

The Magic Crumb, how interesting you should but it that way. Because that's what Perilite is. But then again the computer your sitting at is Magic too, so is the electric your using to run it with. We're surrounded by Magic. The cars, tv with HD, camera's, preprocessed cow manure in plastic baggie's. I don't care if you call it Lowe's, Homedepot or even the recyled plastic can your getting the empty plastic bottles out of, it's Magic. So as the most beatuiful woman I ever met once told me " put it back in your pants, nobody's impressed". Haahahaaa...are you reading this Witch Queen. But really I want to thank you for the idea of the Magic Crumb. You know how well that goes with The Nanny pod, The Pod Squad or the Pumpkin Maker. Now that makes me smile. The Magic Crumb thru the Magic of Science uses the forces of coheision, adheison and gravity in a wet/dry enviroment to produce roots. Roots capable of handling the different concentrations of nutrients levels. The "Toxicity levels of the three main root types" remember. Haaahaaa I learned that while I was "pottering and messing around with innocent plants ;-)" The Magic Crumb, that's ah-nice and you say I don't listen. As for EC it doesn't have any meaning here. Wrong type of Hydroponics. This month the roots will start showing thru the inserts. They will be short and very hairy. Like those grown in Aerponics only they'll be in water. I started the next part of this experiment with a Squad of Sunburst Tangerines. I raised them from seed in soil based medium, it will give us so much more to talk about.

You truly like "The magic crumb", don't you Georgeiiii? LOL
That's Ok with me. If I remember well, it was Pablo Picasso who said about copy cats and such; don't worry about that, because you do not get copied or paraphrased unless you are famous... ;-) (if it wasn't Picasso who said this, correct me - this was more or less an impromptu...)

Go ahead Georgeiiii! I love what you do, keep me (us) posted. If you don't mind, keep it down to earth, somewhat real and transparent. Don't pull my leg into that nutrient solution without nutrients, and we can be great friends ;-)

Haahaa yes lucas I enjoyed the Magic Crumb. But really I'm not trying to pull your leg. I really just use a small squrit around the top. That's it. Yes the plant goes thru that in short time, as I figure about 48 to 72 hours. Even as I say that I can see it will need bigger doses as it grows. Every three days may not be enough it's still a learning experience. The plant gets nutrients but it doesn't translate into the water. It's concetrated in the wet/dry layer which sits atop the transition layer which sits right above the water. All in a 2 inch layer. I mean really do you think I did all that on Photobucket just to fool someone.

I'll be an adult and ask: what in tarnations are you talking about? I do not understand.
Art magic and science all meld on some level, but you random meanderings aren't really tying it together.
So you made a small DWC system where, instead of replacing the fertilizer, you simply add a little to it every day. That's nothing new here. I recall reading a post by freemangreens where he stated he grew tomatoes in a static organic nutrient solution and never changed the solution during the entire grow cycle. He just added to it. I've grown both herbs and spider plants under the same philosophy. So what is the point in all those words you previously posted? Because right now you're sounding like a troll.

What I don't understand here, is that he originally stated that his goal was to prevent waste water from doing 'bad things'. Which is in and of itself a laudable goal.

Now we've switch to... what... magic? and art? and.. uhm... what now?

Well, well stevey you've done something similar? Really? WEll hey this is a visual medium break out some pictures. Show me your failure trying it this way or that. And please don't be putting up pictures of lettce. That's a tree growing in that pod. What tropical plants have you grown? The walls look pretty bare in here save what I put up. And yes I've read that tomato thing but that's what some one esle has done. Did you try it? Do you even know why he put it in a large trash can? Not to mention how little you know of trolls. trolls stand in entrance ways blocking entre till he's is paid. Be it money, magic or ego. They even have them in cyberspace.

I guess I have to defend georgeiii here, and not just a bit. One should always try to play nice and fair as long as it is possible.

He may react somewhat eccentric due to the nature of the subject, and get a bit lost in defending it, - but he isn't trolling and not even sounding like a troll. I've been accused here myself being a Troll (on several occasions), for the simple reason that I had knowledge and details in hands, that was compromising other's stereotypes and misconceptions. Here georgeiii is right, IN CASE you don't understand or don't want to accept something that is over your head, you can't blame the other for your lack of insight. Discriminating the other for what he/she knows or tries to transmit, is even worse and extremely unfair. You don't kill the messenger of strange, bad or unexpected news either, unless you haven't understood that this is pointless...

I do not accept any ad hominem arguments against my person and hence not against others - those are fallacies. If a person behaves eccentric, strangely or even inappropriate you may always tell them or complain. But there is no connection with the validity of one's arguments or actual knowledge. You can't depreciate or reject what a person knows, tells or transmits, just because you don't like his/her behavior, ways or even the tone. That would not only be unfair, but to dig one's heels.

I am guilty myself of an "attack on sincerity" against georgeiii here, but I do not connect it to my argumentation. As I said earlier I do not engage in an extensive argument about the topic itself. It's interesting and funny but it's not of my concern because there is no such thing as any scientific approach and hence the result is random. Anyone trying this at home with different tap water (very poor in minerals) and a different magic crumb may end up with very different and even disappointing results.

First off, lets be clear. It wasn't stevey who suggested georgii may be a troll. In my experience, a Troll (in the realm of internet forums) is a person who posts threads and/or comments in the interest of creating or feeding arguments, generally in an effort to inflate their own ego. And yes Jean-Luc has worn that honor on more than one thread here.
I also asked him to clarify what his point with this thread was because up to know, georgeii seems to change tactics, approaches, and clarifications on a whim leaving the other posters constantly trying to clarify themselves based on his continually changing tactics.
Maybe I've missed something here which is why I've given him the opportunity to explain himself(after all he did offer to do it), but to this point his methodology follows that of a troll.

I kinda just want Georgiii to state plainly what his goals are/were with this system.

At the beginning, I thought it was all about water conservation, and waste fertilizer issues. If that's the case, then we can discuss it. After reading the rest of the thread, I have no idea what it is anymore. He has called it art, and experiment, etc...

What is it we're looking at?

grizzman, I think you may indeed have a misconception about the terms Troll and trolling and hence tend to using it in an inflationary way in either case. Anyway, an ad hominem argument isn't playing fair or nice and it's always a clear fallacy. Trying to discredit people, just because you don't have the same opinion or level of knowledge, is a quite common argumentation tactic in forums - but that doesn't mean that a sceptical person can't see through it. You were using that kind of tactics with Jean-Luc, with me - and seem to not mind using the same thing (although implicitly) with georgeiii as well.

What you often use on top of that, is "the argument ad nauseam". As in if you say something often enough, and repeat it regularly in different ways - some people will begin to believe it. ;-)

I am not trying to discredit georgeii. I simply have no idea what he is talking about. I thought I did, but each time he changes his mind.
I clearly stated what my interpretation of trolling is. It may not be the "official" wikipedia definition, but trolling is what I have defined on almost every forum I have or do frequent.
I do not call troll to, in some way, belittle or denegrate folkz. They tend to do that in their own effort. I post it as a warning to others not to get sucked into the petty arguments as demonstrated on this thread.
And on that note, this is the last my eyes will see of this thread. scurry back under the bridge, I'm going to continue forth.
PS: why again did you create another account with a different name Jean-Luc? Don't tell for my sake, I already know. But please do tell so the others on the forum gain some enlightenment. And no conspiracy theories about how several members on the forum, from all walks of life and different parts of the world planned a smear campaign to discredit you. I can go to a movie theater and see that. lol.

uhg...how frustrating to read, but I have to ask...in reguards to the waste of water and all that... can't you recycle that water to feed your outside plants and trees and it be benificial? My understanding is thar if there is just not enough to keep the hysroponic plants nourished, and you water outside plants with just plain water...wouldnt it stand to reason that even with just trace minerals in it, it cant do the plants outside any harm...right?
Please keep in mind I'm asking as a new gardener to hydroponics and soil gardening, so please don't be rude or evasive...just answer the question LOL (I understand that it may be a complicated answer, but the answer comes down to an either yes or no with a reason of why...)
Thanks!
~~Cheri~~

Cheri,

If you are dealing in small hobyist quantities, then you will be ok doing this, and it will probably help your plants. Or at worst it will not hurt your plants. It would be best to do so when not raining, or when it's looking like it won't rain soon.

The concerns raised earlier about fertilizer leaching are real, however, it is my professional opinion that dumping small quantities of fertilizer depleted water on grass or plants will not result in any significant amount of leaching, however, do take care. If you have a stream on your property, don't dump it in, or near the stream. Also, avoid dumping waste water on areas of exposed bedrock, or if you know that the water table is very close to the surface.

If anyone has any questions about it, please feel free to start a new thread about waste water concerns. This one has turned from science to myth, to 'magic pills'

Thanks Stevey! I don't live near a stream, I live in a rural area on city water, so I think I will be ok doing so.
It would make sense that comercially it could do damage, throwing off the eco system and all.
~~cheri~~

Cherri,

Basically what you risk is that you end up with the nutrient rich water getting into lakes or oceans. This causes huge algal blooms which can do all kinds of nasty things, the most obvious of which is to completely remove all the oxygen from the water, thus killing everything underneath.

It is also a problem if nitrogen enriched water gets into your drinking water, as Grizzman noted earlier. If nitrogen levels rise above 10ppm, it can cause Blue Baby Syndrome which can be fatal if left untreated.

-Steve

Can anybody answer what's the size of an average hydroponic garden? I mean other than one you make yourself? In my experience it's 22 to 25 gallons. It's not just depleted nutrient water but ionized salt water. With all the added extra little additives and someone had the nerve to say they can drink it? 22 to 25 gallons. Do you think they're only 5 or 6 people growing hydroponicly across America. I mean really let's be conservative and say one million. Think how many marijunia growers there are. But look I'm going to start another thread because things are moving along. The ornamental and red pepper are branching. Not just growing leaves but senting out new branches. A sure sign that my non-nutrient method is working. Maybe reading about the Pumpkin Squad will help your understanding.

Georgii, if you want to keep debating the waste water issue... I'm game, and your dead wrong, with the caveats I provided.

Fertilizers, as i'm sure most hydro people are aware, are consumables. They get used once, they get turned into plant material and they are no longer dangerous to anyone or anything. You put it on plants, and they get consumed. There is no toxic build up of fertilizer, at least not any that I have ever heard of. The only big problems are fertilizer leaching straight to drinking water, and fertilizer making it to big lakes or oceans.

If you are concerned, dumping it straight down the drain is a safe way to deal with it. It will end up in a settling tank, algae will consume it, along with all kind of other biologicals. They will then take the solid products, and spread it on farmers fields. at this point, all the chemical fertilizer has been completely converted to organic forms that are slow release and safe.

And as i've stated before to cherri, dumping small amounts on your lawn of garden outdoors is safe, with the provisio that you don't allow it to trickle right into a stream, don't pour it down your well (or near your well to be safe), or onto exposed bedrock. This will cause what nutrient there is left to be exposed to huge amounts of soil, and bacteria, and although it's doesn't bond as well as organic fertilizer to soil elements, it will still be consumed.

-Steve

P.S.: Your really reaching with the salts. Check out the link below to read all about how drinking epsom salts would probably be good for you health.

Here is a link that might be useful: Epsom Salts

From my understanding, anyone who blames hydroponic or "standard nutrients" categorically for pollution, actually is like the dog who barks in the wrong park at the wrong tree.

Yes, there is a lot of nutrients depleted by commercial growers and that is most probably related to the cheap price of these "home made" nutrients. Most of what is spilled and wasted is cheap! But who thinks that either the commercial hydroponic farms or individual "growers", have done or do the real damage with nitrogen or are the ones who have to be blamed for polluting ground, river (or even sea) water, doesn't get the plot at all. The actual and worst pollution comes from very different sources, - we all know that, don't we!?

As for individual depletion (including M-J growers), there is obviously 10 times (just to mention a figure) more crap in everybody's daily waste water than in the nutrients he/she depletes weekly or monthly. Let this part go georgeiii, it is neither plausible nor realistic. What ever you try, you'll get no common sense here or anywhere else. Here also, the argument ad nauseam will not help you either.

The actual plot is very simple: whatever the kind of threat or villain you deal with, you can always draw the problem down to ignorance, irresponsibility and greed. That's the only thing you can actually blame. Against those would be the only cause i'd join spontaneously - and even the tree I'd join you to bark at. ;-)

One more thing: commercial growers do not fall for any (fancy or other additives), they are useless and too expensive for them. I am lucky to "regularly" lay hands on commercial growers formulas and recipes. They are in fact very spartanic and they are cheap with copper and Fe. Also the concentration is generally (not always, though) just sufficient, at least here around. Better forget about that detail. ;-)

lucas are you still in Thailand? Because this is America and the stuff is nearly on every local super market shelves in easy walking distance. I mean if I take a 10 mintue drive I can get my choice of soils, fertilzers and please even my choice of manures. I mean here it's paper or plastic and away you go. It's a difference in consumerisum. (sorry if I spelled that wrong) But that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You know I just realized something else. I don't have any of my Hydroponic stuff up on Photobucket. I mean the stuff before I came on the GardenWeb....silly me. Oh and lucas don't mind my America statement. I truly envy you for living where you live. Americans work themselves to death just to get a week a year to live where you do.

I guess we should better discuss this on my veranda, with a cup of Earl Grey or a beverage of your choice at some rainy monsoon day.

But yep, I am here since a while and I have no intention to leave soon ;-)
I truly live at a remote place, where C.I.A agents use to open various "churches" with names like "Whiter shade of pale" - actually as a cover front for there observer jobs near the Burmese border LOL! And yet they talk too much when they're completely wasted.

But that doesn't mean that I have no insight in what happens at key places around the world. Btw: I've only been once in the U.S. If I remember well, it was in late 1979 or 80 at Atlanta airport for 4 hours in transit to Mexico City, on the way to Guatemala. I've never returned for "a reason" and If id' bluntly say what I think of the american way of life, dream - and all the rest of it, I'd probably not be able to fight all of you back anymore. If it helps, I've got a "news ticker" not even an hour ago, you know what it says? " Greed and pyramid schemes on the rise in Thailand!" LOL You must have noticed that I am not a native speaker in English language and that my cultural, educational and other backgrounds are indeed diametrically different ;-)

Nevertheless, - wherever you look, wherever you go, the proportion and the kind of pollution, waste, and the whole enchilada that goes with it doesn't change that much. Do you think that in S.E.A there is widely accepted ecological thinking or anything even remotely related. Nope my friend, the conditions here are to be compared with the state of the art of the US in the 70ies. Most importantly the real reason (as mentioned earlier) ignorance, irresponsibility and greed are everywhere and always the same. Hence I still believe that there are too many trees to mention to bark at first, respectively before it's the turn of hydroponics.

Truth to be told, though: I am actually about to lunch a whole product line for hydroponics and in fact I am not at all neutral with this topic. ;-)
In case anyone is trying to opportunistically turn this against me now, it would be the very last "personal" information I'd ever share here again. If you're interested on the other hand, catch me as long as you can. As I will be very busy, very soon....

Here's the picture of the new branching on the Ornamental pepper.

Only a half liter of fertilizer between 5 plants every 3 days. Not even a half.

Well let me say after 60 days the roors are appearing outside the insert. I moved the Squad closer to the window last week and now it's double leafing. Also I didn't mention anything about the Pumpkin Squad. Only three of the survived. Their about 16" long and are budding. Instead of single flowers their bunching.

How old is that Ornamental Pepper plant?

Here's the weekly update on the tropical Squad.

One of the things I like about hydroponics is the fast growth potental. The Barbados nut has a new crown of four new leaves growing at once. Of course that could just be the length of light in the day increasing.

Compare last week's picture with this week's and you can see their going to shade each other by the next.

Here's another weekly update on the tropical Squad.

Even the two (the Red Pepper & the Philodenron)that were shaded by the other three are growing fast now. So far I've made up 25 of the Hydro-Pods, 10 (goal is 100). 5 of the Hydro-Pails ( goal is 20). 10 of the Pumpkins Makers ( goal of 20) and 5 of the Aqua-Pods (goal of 20). Then I have to fit the garden around those. The initial water will be alot compared to other years at the start but I won't have to refill them just top them off.

Another update