Candle_Tree, I had a strange coincidence happen a few hours ago. I was at a shop looking at gardening magazines on my way home from work, and was curious about one called, "Birds and "Blooms". I dropped it by accident, and when I picked it up it was opened on pg. 28 showing a large picture of MG 'Heavenly Blue' with an inserted picture of the "Moonflower". How very strange! I thought instantly, and that I must send this to Candle_Tree somehow so she will believe me. So I decided to incude my e-mail address in this posting, but saw that you shared yours. I will be in touch this week-end when more time permits, and we can talk outside the forum to our heart's content on the issues we have shared. Also, I do not feel that you should be without any seeds you want (without violating international laws that I will check out). I will get them to you in the appropriate seasons if you wish. After all, we need to cultivate also the "earth goddess" aspect in you as a budding horticulturist. A cultivated variety or cultivar means that humans choose to propagate/multiply a particular plant because it has desirable characteristics (disease-resistance, improved flowers or foliage over the species form, etc). These hybrid traits can occur by nature's cross-pollinating through butterflies, moths, or the wind - or by human nurture and selectivity. I confess that I am not informed fully enough on the pros and cons of genetic engineering with the plant kingdom's food crops, so I have no view. I'm sure that when we manipulate or bypass natural evolution, there can be a lot of consequences and/or rewards to be debated. Hopefully, only the best educated minds on either side of the controversy will be in the spotlight - not the opinionated and ignorant hysterics versus the greedy corporations. A cultivar name has been traditionall written in semi-quotes, such as Impomea ( the genus) tricolor (the species) 'Heavenly Blue' (cv). So I doubt that this term applies ot genetically engineered plants. It pleases me to no end that ou are attuned to the lack of education impacting the work force. Trust me, I see it here all the time with workers endangering themselves, others, and the environment by mixing and applying pesticides when they cannot even read the warnings and instructions on the label. (These are not people in the company I work for). I have approached them on several occasions about serious mistakes they make, and there is no language barrier - there is a lack of interest in safety concerns. My Spanish is good enough to realise that they don't know what they are doing. I have quite a concern about the use of chemicals, and I do use them wisely as a certified pesticide applicator for horticultural use - but not on food crops. At the same time I am not in agreement with using organic fertilisers over "chemical" ones. Everything physical in nature has a chemical basis, and for "organic" products to bash chemistry is simply absurd. Plants could not care less whether the source of fertiliser is organic or chemical because it can only absorb the needed elements in an ion form (cations or anions). It's a chemistry thing. So they don't absorb the nutrients in the way we apply them - no matter what the source. They go through a series of stages until a cation/anion usable form is reached to absorbed by the roots. Organic fertilisers have the disadvantage of not supplying enough of the "micronutrients" (iron, copper, manganese, etc.) so it had better be present in the soil in sufficient amounts to begin with. If it doesn't, nutritional deficiences will result for the plant and for us. Quite often, sufficient soil nutrients do not exist, especially in tropical soils. And the most element needed by agricultural crops as well as most foliage plants is nitrogen. Urea nitrogen is synthetically produced organic nitrogen that will convert into a usable form through the beneficial bacteria in the soil. It makes no difference whether it comes from seaweed, fish emulsion, or a synthetic urea-based nitrogen. The conversion process (via soil bacteria) will remain the same for it to be absorbed by the roots, and chemical fertilisers can provide a better and much cheaper source for nitrogen that is MEASURABLE for application.Organic fertilisers do not list their percentages of micronutrients because they are either not present, or they do not have a guarenteed percentage. (Take a rest, John_Z). You are a gem. I look forward to sharing with you via mail and/or e-mail, especially on social concerns. Respectfully, John_Z.

True blue: Delphiniums, Gentiana asclepiada(not all), many alpine Gentianas, Brunnera, Scilla sibirica, Bellevalia forniculata, Commelina(for very mild climates), Omphalodes verna,Centaurea triumfetti,some Corydalis. There are some rare blue Penstemons, but nearly all are ungrowable here. Plants approaching true blue: some Tradescantias. Iris sibirica Big Blue has a true blue nerve in the middle of the falls. Have never seen a blue Campanula, and I had really many. Amsonias are pastel blue. None of Anemone nemorosa clones is true blue(I had them all).

Somewhow I overlook this particular thread where a lot my own thoughts on a subject "Nikko is no Nikko" was expressed. Coincidently, just yesterday in a '2007 Banner Year...' thread I wrote two fairly lenghty posts on a subject. Just copying them here, Posted by ego45 6bCT (My Page) on Thu, Jul 19, 07 at 10:35 "Katy, I certainly respect your opinion and I'm myself having some 'issues' with Nikko, however would like to say a few (actualy not just a few [g] ) words in its defence. First and foremost, exactly in a same way as PG become a common name for all paniculatas for non-gardening public ( or Xerox for any brand of copy machine, Jeep for SUV etc), Nikko Blue name for many years was and for the general public is an equivalent of a 'blue mophead hydrangea'. Not a very long ago, before current hydrangea cultivars craze took a place, Nikko or Nikko-alike hydrangeas were the only choice for the most homeowners. Given its name recognition and ease of propagation/growing to commercial size mass growers even didn't want to bother with ordering new name tags or marketing efforts. That is how market become saturated with generic 'me-too-like-Nikko' mopheads all bearing the same NB name. Add to this a fact that if you sell your house new owners wouldn't remember (even if they'll be interested to even ask you the names of hydrangeas) neither name Dooley or Altona or any other names you grow except one, NIKKO. It's a brand name. Period. What is sold under this name is a different story. I'm writing this for so long just to make a point that there is a Nikko and there are a Nikko-types. My guess is that to find and identify 'true' NB in a sea of N-types is a job for high professionals or CSI. I'm myself grow 8 plants that could be named NB based on a first glance appearance, but I suspect that only 2 of them are true NB. This one (about 20 y.old and inherited with a house) and another one that I propagated myself from it. It has a dark green heart-shaped, but slightly elongated fleshy leaves and the most important(!!!) has an ability to produce flowers from a secondary buds along the stem if top bud is killed. No, I'm not saying that it will defintely produce it, but may produce it as it happened in 2004 (you may remember that sudden drop from 20F to -10F overnight in January'04). That year it was one and only macrophilla in my garden that produced flowers. Handfull, in August, but still did. Of course, position, soil content, sun-wind exposure playing very important role in a color, appearance and performance of any hydrangea in a garden, so lets not paint TRUE Nikko by the same brush as its impersonators. :-)))" Posted by ego45 6bCT (My Page) on Fri, Jul 20, 07 at 0:35 "I'm probably beating the dead horse here, but still want to add a few things regarding the Nikko. What are those so-called remontant hydrangeas, Dooley, Penny Mac, All Summer Beauty, ES etc? They are SELECTIONS. That's right, they were not discovered in a wild and brought to you 'as is', nor they are the product of many years of hybridization efforts. They were simply SELECTED for their specific treat-ability to bloom from a secondary buds along the stem or on completely new wood. In another words they are NATURALY occured variances of the existing plants. The only questions is how the owners called them before they were SELECTED, RENAMED and commercionalized? I'm 100% sure, answer is - Nikko Blue, as it was and still is a generic name for a generic mophead. I hope you noticed that all so-called Nikkos are not equal, neither in size, habit, form, color and size of the leaves nor in a color, density and size of the flowerheads. That is because they are propagated from the different parent plants. And those parents were propagated from the different parents and so on so on. Some parents had all necessary attributes of the 'original' Nikko, but some kept only part of them and as generations of vegetative propagation went by some attributes were lost as unnecessary for the plant, but name stayed the same. On an opposite side, some qualities were naturaly enhanced as plants were adopting themselves to the new growing and harsher conditions. That is why we have some Nikkos that are not blooming in z7 CT and ES (formerly Nikko Blue according to my theory) that is blooming in z4/5 MN." And another coincident, in another thread someone from z5/MA posted this with a picture of a perfect dk.blue hydrangea. Posted by littleonefb z5MA (My Page) on Thu, Jul 19, 07 at 23:54 "My neighbors voted 2 pics of standouts and they have been this way for a couple of weeks. This one of a blue hydrangea which gets darker as the flowers fully open with the nasturtium underneath them. I have no idea what kind of hydrangea it is. Hubby gave them to me about 26 years ago around Easter time. He bought them in the market because they where blue and he knows I love blue flowers. I took the chance that they would be hardy to this area and planted them in the bed under the front picture window and held my breath till the following spring. Sure enough they have been there every year and blooming away, except the summer following that bitter cold winter we had. Only 3 blooms that year. The stems readily root right through the mulch when held down by a rock, so now I have the 2 original plants that I keep cutting back as they get to large, 2 others from rooted stems and my neighbor has 6 of them that I rooted for her. If anyone can give me an idea of what kind it is, I'd love to know. I never see anyone else growing a blue hydrangea with flowers this deep a blue." Can't be a one warm winter fluke, 26 years of continuous bloom says something or not?

Indeed Hanabi! "... also a 'bit too much' in the context of the garden."... I'd rather have a saucer-size than a dinnerplate one, that is not sustainable! I did notice the smaller foliage size on the axillary branches from the old canes & matching, muffin-size blossoms! A nurseryman did suggest prunning a few of old & new canes that seem weaker, to make bundling up, for winter cover-up more manageable & control size of bush. Not only do I have to winter protect, I also have to 'sun-screen' her up, from our Midwest summer ... since losing the dappled shade provided by a tree taken down in '05. I gave her an arbor topped with landscaping sun-shading-fab (looked hideous), planted a Sweet Autumn Clem on the wrong side (E - the only spot available) that now, is turning into a monster, in spite of regular hair-cut! Relocating an 18y/o Nik may kill her - can't afford to, starting new is not the same - so I'll try a cutting or also dig up SA Clem & sink her in a super large planter to be set on the W leg of arbor (may tame her down a bit) ... all these, for a, perhapa mere $12.50 florist Nikko Blue on Mom's Day in 1990!!! Â;) Many thanks again for the 'Nikko-Wisdom' shared Hanabi ... what would you do in my garden clogs? TIA for your thoughts! â:)