uuummm not to start anything here. I know you are concerned, but you are doing a disservice to the cats by letting them out, especially a declawed one. You are also spoiling the ballance of the natural habitat in your area as cats are not native. I am sure you are a nice person and want to do what is right. Cats do not belong outside, but in the house being cuddled,away from harm and away from harming birds, bunies, frogs, snakes etc. A bird or a chipmunk or anything small that is bitten or clawed by a cat will most likely die from infection, I have seen this too many times. Your cats will live longer and so will your birds and native critters if you keep them inside. Just peacefull words for thought.
Lisa (whos cat is inside)

I'm not a fan of bunnies, or moles, or deer, chipmunks, squirrels, or anything else that raids my gardens and kills the plants that I've spent time, money, and energy tending. My concern is for the hummingbirds. I've had snakes and toads and never seen the cats get interested in those, and those creatures are welcome. The cats wisely fled from the wild turkeys.

One cat stays inside most of the time, but the other can't stand it other than to eat, sleep, and be cuddled when he's in the mood. I don't know that he would adjust to being permanently indoors and I might have to euthanize him.

If your cats can catch a baby blue jay and go after a robin they will attempt to go after hummers. Most critters don't bother hummer plants because they are not attractive to them or because they put out an offensive odor. However they are attractive to voles I am a fan of bunnies, squirrels and birdsand they are always welcome in my yard but snakes and voles are not welcome. The cats should stay inside. If you are trying to attract birds you are baiting the birds and taunting the cats.

Penny

I'll work on keeping the cats inside. A major part of the issue is reforming my husband, who believes dogs and cats belong outside. As far as the cats go, Tess will be an easy case, but Wolfgang? I don't know. He came to me because my dad wasn't able to keep him cooped up inside his house. Dad originally found him as a stray. I can't even hope that age will slow the cat down--he's only 5 or 6 years old. He has become a behavior problem in the past when I've tried to keep him inside. I can't get rid of him either--he's been my mother's "baby" since the family cat died at 18 year old in 2000.

Should I turn in to the pound the intact cat that shows up at least weekly in my yard?

What about the large dog that belongs to our psycho neighbor (the one who cut our two horses with a machete and ran over and killed another neighbor's Great Dane). His dog was just in my yard again last night. The dog has killed a couple of my chickens in the past. I also have a two-year-old baby that plays in the yard while I garden that I need to protect. I'd just as soon remove a recurrent wandering dog from the area.

I live on 11 acres in a semi-rural area. Dogs and cats and God knows what else that doesn't belong to me shows up. What about my original question of some precautions around the hummingbird garden?

The precaution that you should take then, is to NOT plant a hummingbird garden. You'll just provide a cat paradise of birds to kill. There is advice for people to protect their hummers from cats. But the cats in question are the ones that people let roam free, and the only thing you can do about that is to report the irresponsible neighbor. That is if you can figure out whose cat it is. It is unfortunate that you cannot get rid of this cat, but my advice is to NOT attract hummers to be killed in your gardens.

Do you really think that I'm going to let cats hang around where the birds are? I'd take them to a pound first.

It sounds like the only acceptable courses of action suggested to me are to rip out all my gardens for fear of attracting any butterflies or birds, or eliminate the cat population of the USA in case a domestic one gets out.

This board is way too extreme for me. I'll stick to the more practical gardenweb forums.

You may be able to hang your feeders from the eaves of your roof where they are high enough that they cats can't get near them

Penny

I hope I can make you feel better ralleia. This is a very emotional issue for many people. Sometimes it's because they hate cats, and sometimes because they love them, or sometimes because they have an understandable concern for wildlife.

We have owned a lot of cats over the years, and some of them started out as strays. I sympathize with you and your difficulties. It is extremely difficult to keep a cat inside all the time that is used to being outside. They usually manage to slip out, or if you do manage to keep them in, they get incredibly frustrated. I must say that the cats we had that went outside always seemed happier and better adjusted. I know that they are exposed to more dangers by going outside, but they really did seem happier. Unfortunately, a couple of them disappeared-perhaps hit by cars or attacked by animals.

As we got new kittens over the years from shelters, we made it a habit to keep them inside and it wasn't so much a problem. I never thought they were as physically fit or well-adjusted as those strays we had taken in that continued to go outside. It pains me to see them kill wild creatures, but I can understand your predicament.

As for the hummingbird situation, Penny makes a helpful suggestion about keeping the feeders high. I think it's rather unlikely that your cats will manage to capture a healthy adult hummingbird. They are just so lightning fast and nimble, that it would take an extremely persistent and athletic cat to catch one. I'm sure it happens, but not very often. In about 20 years of outdoor cats, (during my childhood years, mostly), the cats did occasionally catch adult birds, but never a hummingbird.

I think some of the attitudes expressed here are extreme and that the cats are not going to pose a serious threat to your hummingbirds. If they catch one, it's not exactly going to result in a population crash. I doubt, however that they'll catch any, especially if you keep the feeders high.

I hope I am being a voice of reason. While I certainly like to see cats kept inside for the good of wildlife, I feel sorry about people coming down on you so hard. Keeping cats indoors is like a religion to some people and there's just no reasoning with them. If you don't, they will come at you like hell's fury.

I was just answering her question. She asked if she'd be doing a disservice to the hummingbirds by planting a hummingbird garden. I in no way suggested that she dig up her garden to deter every critter from ever entering her property. Nor did I suggest that her neighbor is in any way an honorable person for killing dogs and cutting horses. Yes, I am offended that people let cats roam free, and I can understand that you cannot change an outdoor cat into an indoor cat. If wanting to make a giant hummingbird garden with a cat to hunt, my opinion is not to do it. If the intention is a few hummingbird feeders, then placing them high, and having no place for a cat to hide and pounce is a better way to go. Being declawed is no factor for a cat, they easily adapt. And cats do kill hummers. The following link provides suggestions in case a hummer, or any bird is caught by a cat. Keeping cats indoors is like a religion to some people, could be worded a bit better. It is a responibility as a pet owner to protect them and respect those around you. In many HOA's it is against policy to own a roaming cat. I in no way intend on coming at you like hell's fury, and find that quite offensive.

Here is a link that might be useful: Project Wildlife

OK I think the point has been made sufficiently. People do have to understand that they may have to resort to alternative methods if they want to attract birds of any kind but we have to offer the suggestions and then it is up to them to make responsible choices.

Penny

There's a difference between tactfully answering a question and treating a person like an idiot. A number of the posters on this forum acted as if I were going to plant a bird-attracting garden for the purpose of feeding cats, maybe even running weekly specials and posting a sign that read "Calicos eat for free." "Cat paradise?" you say? That couldn't be worded better? I was very offended. I'm surprised that you have the nerve to complain that someone else offended you in their attempt to be a peacemaker. But I guess it just proves the point that there can be no reasoning with some people.

Thank you, Kristin, for providing level-headed input. From browsing other forums it sounds like a lot of other people have a far more severe feral cat problem than I have--I normally only ever see the same one! I suppose my area is rural enough that other predators from the woods get them. I still plan to trap and haul to the shelter any dogs or cats that I see on my property.

Well, I'll tell you this much. I love having birds around, and I love my cats. One cat stays inside, the other likes to go out, and once in a while she does catch a bird.

When I lived in Fresno I had three cats. All of them went outside. My backyard was loaded with birds a good part of the year, despite the cats. A neighbour to the south complained constantly that she never had any birds in her backyard because my cats, according to her, had eaten every bird from Bakersfield to the Oregon border. It never once occurred to her that her little hyper yappy dog that barked at everything, including the insects, may have had something to do with it. The fact that she had plants that weren't very attractive to the birds didn't help either. There are also times where you just don't see many birds.

Her in Downtown Sacramento there are woodpeckers, robins, magpies, scrub jays, and an occasional stellar jay, nutcrackers, wrens, bushtits, small owls that like to perch at the street curb, many other birds, purple martins, hummingbirds, and an epidemic of feral cats. The only one that appears to be rare is the oriole, and that is due to being on the outer edge of their range, and the anti-cat people here love to spread disinformation and blame the scarcity of orioles on outdoor cats. There are birds that have declined in numbers in the area, but to be fair, loss of habitat is to blame more than the cats.

If there is a species of bird in your area that is sensitive, then it may be a good idea to keep the cat inside.

Cats generally will do better inside in an urban environment. Ignorant neighbours and cars are the biggest threats to their well being.

The reason there are so many birds here is due to the urban forest in the older areas of Sacramento. People in the suburbs complain about not seeing birds, but they also don't want large trees, and hire gardeners that make so much noise with their leaf blowers, and discourage any birds from nesting in that environment.

Cats do catch hummingbirds, but most of the time they just watch them in amazement. Some are intimidated from the sound they make. Nonetheless, while I don't like to see one get caught, I'm not going to lose sleep over it considering the amount of hummingbirds in this area.

You're welcome, Ralleia. I think you should go ahead and plant your hummingbird garden. I got to thinking. Just as it was suggested that you place your feeders high, might it not also make sense to choose only taller hummer plants? Maybe you could concentrate on vines. That way the blossoms would mostly be high off the ground. If you were really worried, maybe you could even pick off the lower blossoms. Surely, there are also many other non-vining hummer plants that are tall--Lobelia cardinalis, perhaps, or the taller Monardas? Lilies? I am sure there are many more. Maybe some of the other forum members can offer suggestions. Surely, taller flowers and vines would be safer for the hummingbirds than low growing flowers like Impatiens, for example.

As for cats killing hummers, I certainly did not say that cats never kill hummingbirds. Hunting abilities and interest vary greatly from cat to cat. I feel certain that there are cats that could spend their entire lives outside in a garden full of hummingbirds and never catch a single one--either through lack of interest, or ineptitude. There are probably a few highly motivated, athletic cats that would manage to kill them with some frequency, but that, I think, would be uncommon. I'm not sure if your hunter cat is a hummingbird menace or not. A defenseless baby bluejay is one thing, a nimble, adult hummingbird quite another. There have been studies on cat predation that show that the majority of killing done by cats is done by a few "talented" individuals. Many cats seldom kill anything, and it is a relative few that are holy terrors.

If you followed the advice of some forum members, you would wring your hands and never plant the garden. This, I think would be the greater disservice to the hummingbirds. Providing plentiful nectar sources for them will definitely be beneficial. That is a certainty. It is entirely uncertain whether cat predation will turn out to be a problem for you. If you put your feeders high, and select tall flowering plants, you can reduce what I believe is a fairly low risk, to an even lower one.

I have one final note that might provide a good analogy: We should keep in mind that even a clean, well-maintained seed feeder can harm birds by increasing population densities, encouraging the spread of disease. It also opens the birds up to predation. Our bird feeder was frequented by a Cooper's hawk, which dined on our local mourning doves. I don't know if it made any difference to those doves that they were killed by a native predator, rather than a non-native cat. Nonetheless, on balance, I think bird feeders are a good thing, and on the whole have helped birds. I haven't heard of any organized campaign to stop bird feeding. When we feed birds, they get easy access to food, but do incur some increased risks to their well-being. It's a trade-off, but one that I believe is worthwhile. In this imperfect world, the same can be said about your hummingbird garden!

According to:

Contacts

The Feral Cat Association

Humane Society of the United States, 2100 L Street, NW, Washington D.C. 20037. Website: hsus.org

American Bird Conservancy, 1250 24th Street NW, Suite 220, Washington, DC 20037. Phone: (202) 467-8348

Native Species Network, P.O. Box 405, Bodega Bay, CA 94923.

What effects do domestic cats have on wildlife?

Although rural free-ranging cats have greater access to wild animals and undoubtedly take the greatest toll, even urban house pets take live prey when allowed outside. Extensive studies of the feeding habits of free-ranging domestic cats over 50 years and four continents [6] indicate that small mammals make up approximately 70% of these cats' prey while birds make up about 20%. The remaining 10% is a variety of other animals. The diets of free-ranging cat populations, however, reflect the food locally available.

Observation of free-ranging domestic cats shows that some individuals can kill over 1000 wild animals per year [7], although smaller numbers are more typical. Some of the data on kills suggest that free-ranging cats living in small towns kill an average of 14 wild animals each per year. Rural cats kill many more wild animals than do urban, or suburban cats [8]. Several studies found that up to 90% of free-ranging rural cats' diet was wild animals, and less than 10% of rural cats killed no wild animals [9]. Recent research [10] suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year. Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals
whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution.

Despite the difficulties in showing the effect most predators have on their prey, cats are known to have serious impacts on small mammals and birds. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats [11]. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida's coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction [12, 13].

Not only do cats prey on many small mammals and birds, but they can outnumber and compete with native predators. Domestic cats eat many of the same animals that native predators do. When present in large numbers, cats can reduce the availability of prey for native predators, such as hawks [14] and weasels [15].

Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions [16] and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease [17]. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis [18].

Here is a link that might be useful: The Pet Center

The information in that article is true, but it is exageratted, and written in a way to make it look worse than it is.

Rabies: There is a vaccination for rabies. It doesn't mention what percentage of rabies cases are found in cats (it fluctuates around one half of one percent).

Other diseases: The article should suggest vaccinations in addition to the diseases.

Number of wild animals killed. First, it states "some" domestic cats kill 1000 wild animals a year. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. That is about three animals a day. I'm sure the few cats that kill this many wild animals are feral.

I'm not saying they don't kill wild animals. I'm just stating there are plenty of anti-cat people that add a lot of drama when it comes to this issue, and they sound as rediculous as the ones that think people should stop driving because it is bad for the environment, the US economy will implode if we don't allow an unlimited number of illegal immigrants in for cheap labour, and those that think every quirk in the weather is evidence of global warming.

I didn't know that The Feral Cat Association, The Humane Society, America Bird Conservancy, and the Native Species Network would exxagerate and write things to make things look bad. That was only a portion of the article, I left a link to the rest. There was more interesting information including suggested vaccinations. I think these are reputable sources, based on different studies done about cat problems in the U.S. I read in another article that even if every cat owner forced their cats to stay inside, that would only cover about 40% of the population. I am in no way anti-cat. I've always liked cats, just came from a "dog" family and married a "dog" man. I'm persistent in this, because it is irresponsible to neighbors to let your cats roam free, to deficate in others yards, walk on cars. Each justification is, well mine don't kill animals, or "well you're just anti-cat."

I agree with Kristen that it probably would be better to have plants for birds than to have nothing at all for them. I have also reconsidered if putting out feeders would be a good idea. From what I read today, that is the easiest way for cats to hunt birds. As for planting a hummingbird garden - I hope Raeilla knows that many hummingbird plants are poisonous. She mentioned a small child, and may have other pets as well or even grazing animals.

I think there are a lot of opinions about feral cats, and outdoor cats. I found it interesting how several studies indicated that only 10% of free-ranging rural cats didn't kill other animals. I would guess that 11 acres is probably rural. Another excerpt:

Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions [16] and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease [17]. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis [18]. I encourage you to read the article.

As for the other political rhetoric - I think we'll need to open another forum!!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Pet Center

Ralleia, in your garden plan, you might also consider placing a tall, multi-branched dead tree limb somewhere in the center of the garden. Find something attractive, with nice hummer perches, and just stick it in the ground. From what I've noticed, hummingbirds like to perch out in the open. If you placed the branch so that it provided an unobstructed, 360 degree view of the garden, it might also help give an advantage to hummers by giving them a vantage point to scan for cats or other predators. I don't know if this would work with your garden plan, but I think it's worth considering.

Christy, there are certainly valid points raised in your post, and you might be surprised at how many I agree with. On the other hand, I could also quibble with some of the research, or some of the conclusions about what should be done re personal actions or legislation. Mostly, I felt that ralleia needed some support, and don't regret any of the things I wrote. Here she was, full of enthusiasm about starting a hummingbird garden, yet responsible enough to be concerned about cat predation. She didn't deserve to be compared with irresponsible cat owners, and discouraged from having a garden at all. I could understand why she felt so defensive. Much of what you posted is relevant to a discussion about wildlife, outdoor, feral, and indoor cats, but is hard to apply to ralleia's particular predicament.

So, folks, does anyone have a good list of tall hummingbird plants?--This, assuming that you think tall plants might help for ralleia's situation.

christy2828:

You cited four organizations. I see one article, unless you cut and pasted select paragraphs. Many excellent organizations have a very vocal subset of members that can be extreme. I've met people here from one of the "Friends of the American River" type organizations that claim there are few birds along the American River due to cats. I see plenty of birds. Perhaps there are a few species in decline (declining bird species is a problem worldwide), but the area adjacent to the American River has become almost completly urbanized over the last 30 years. I'm sure the increase in traffic on US 50, which runs within close proximity of the river, has had an impact on various critters as well. My problem with the way these people write these articles is they don't really present a good set of options, but rather suggest no cats go outside (doesn't solve the feral cat problem), or don't own cats because they are, in their eyes, bad for the environment. It is impractical to suggest everyone keep their cats inside. Many of them, like dogs, need space to roam. The cat I have that goes outside does so because she doesn't do well staying indoors all the time. I don't see spay, neuter, vaccinate in that at all, which would help a great deal. And while cats can contract and spread rabies, honestly, it is silly to mention it when they are an insignificant part of the problem. And the figures? I would love to know the methodology of calculating some of them.

I set up the link to read the WHOLE article. Twice. It doesn't sound like you read it. I guess because 'you see' birds along the America River - then those silly scientists must be wrong!! If you want msomeone to pat you on the back for letting your cat roam free, then you're not getting it from me. Obviously a neighbor complained about you before. I give my dogs space to roam. With a fence.

Thanks Kristin. I agree with you that I could have been a little more sensitive to her situation. When I looked at her bio, I related better to her as a mom, wife, and homeowner instead of just an irresponsible neighbor. I have never lived in a rural environment - her cat may never step foot on anothers property.

High hummingbird plants. There is Hollyhock (hummers like single flowering ones). I'm trying it this year - it may need to be staked. Delphinium can get up to 5' high. I saw a Phlox at Home Depot that gets up to 4' high. Crossvine (some types may be invasive) can get up to 40' high. Good luck!

I think this issue would best be kept on the Wildlife forum where you can claim people don't belong and have them suspended from GW at will TYVM.
This is not a CAT or DOG forum, so please don't come to the hummingbird forum & try to tell people what is best for their pets.

I have 2 cats that roam freely (in & out as they please through a pet door). I also feed around 80+ hummingbirds in the summer, and I have NEVER once seen signs that a hummingbird has been caught. I spend a lot of time outside, and I've seen the cats try for other birds, but never a hummingbird. I'm not saying it could never happen, but the odds are in the hummingbird's favor with the ability they have to fly & dart any which way.

For those of you who are pushing this issue, have YOU ever seen a cat catch a hummingbird? And did you mysteriously miss the fact that Raellia's cats are DECLAWED? Come on people, get a grip - a declawed cat catching a hummingbird?????

All other issues you have posted are truly null & void since you are posting on the HUMMINGBIRD FORUM and not the Wildlife Forum.
All Raellia asked was if her DECLAWED cats posed a threat to the hummingbirds............the answer is no.

Looks like the hummingbird police!! Hehe, you go flower power.

Hi Y'all

Wow, looks like some of us really got our "feathers" ruffled over this one!!! Actually I see a praying mantis as more of a lethal threat to a hummingbird than a cat......

Marcy :)

The comments made in favor of cats are very disturbing. Here is a picture of one of the male Anna's hummingbirds I have had all winter. He is dead now due to a neighbors cat. Say all you want, but this is just egocentric uninformed people saying cats make no difference in the local environment. I have waited 6 years for the anna's to show up, and now I have lost the mature male to a cat. I guess that is just fine with some of you, but there is no more reason for a pet cat to be in my yard, than a pet ferret, or pit bull for that matter. Why in the world are some of you saying this is something of an overstatement when there is mention of the damage cats do? That's it. Here is a picture of the hummingbird before he died. --Brian
{{gwi:979351}}

So sorry for the loss of your Anna's, Brian. It's awful when people let their pets run loose and think that's OK.
Lizzy

well said FlowerPower!! - I too have a lazy ole cat that wears her collar with 2 big bells.. I have never seen her even get close to a bird, much less catch one. To answer the original posters question.. I'd say your declawed cat would be NO problem,,, it's the other neighbors pets that pose the problem! I keep my feeders way up in the air,,as well as all the beautiful, red flowering hangers! Have fun,,,and as you can see,,, "the C- - word" can really make for an interesting discussion!! Take care and have fun!!!

Thanks Lizzy.
I don't know what the deal is with the male Anna's. they like to sit right about a foot above the ground on the lower branches of a Japanese maple. The females are always about 6'up or higher, sometimes looking down from the power lines. I was really bummed when I wrote that post. Just chasing that cat off to see what he was chewing on and finding what remained of that mature male made me lose it a bit. Nothing I can do about the cat. I don't know who's it is, so I guess I may have to cut down that Maple tree for prevention. I realize if you have declawed cats, they are going to do no harm whatsoever to a Robin, let alone a Hummingbird, but the clawed ones my neighbors have seem to be very patient, and deadly.

-Brian

homernoy, males really beat the living crap out of one another all the time vying for territorial supremacy, I'm regularly appalled by it; it's got so's I can recognize the difference in their calls when things get REALLY nasty. Occassionally I've seen a hummingbird on his last legs, panting, fluffing and weaving to and fro on his poorly-clasped perch, and :( regularly find the loser's carcasses around my yard. I can believe a bored cat would orally investigate such a find, but it's beyond me an unimpaired bird could be captured by such a comparatively cloddish and bumbling beast. Painful though the loss of your glorious male must have been, I suspect the alternative (which can get really hairy, ask my neighbors!) is to continue providing more and more and more territories for the males to expand to . . . .

Even though Flower Power has decided that this forum should be relocated to a Dog or Cat forum, has anyone noticed that the hummingbirds.net has links to many "KEEP YOUR CATS INDOORS" sites? Also, declawed cats are highly underestimated as ineffective killers. They are extremely capable clawed or declawed. Most birds die from the bite and/or infection. Be responsible for your property, and respectful to your neighbors. Keep any and all animals contained.

Yeah, I think it's good to let your cat outside if that's what s/he wants. They're much happier. So what if his/her life is shorter? What if you had the option of being kept in a glass box to live to 100 but you couldn't go anywhere? I'll take living to 40 instead, thanks. Now on to the birds. You hypocrites are concerned about cats eating hummingbirds. I love my cats to catch them and eat them. Yes, it's sad to see a living thing die. But human beings have made an industry of raising animals to kill them, and now you're worried about some cats carrying out their natural instincts? Okay, your idea is probably that cats sole purpose in life is to be a cute little ornament in your house. Not me. I highly recommend you get your cat on the raw diet, and let him hunt all she wants! Yummy hummingbirds with delicious honey suckle nectar it's tummy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Info on raw diet

My cat jumpedand grabbed a humming bird right out of the honey suckle tree today and ran up to me with it in it's mouth! I just had to pet him to be honest. I think it was probably healthier than the tyson chicken leg he had been gnawing on, that came from the most awful and cruel living conditions. Let's change our habits before we start messing with cats, who I remind you, are obligate carnivores. My cat eats moths, butterflies, doves, and hummingbirds on ocassion; but he's usually content with the trout, chicken, cornish hens, and mackerel. Luckily, i have a yard that's just full of beautiful hummingbirds and I love to watch them too, although they are super territorial and seem kind of mean. But I can't deny that I'm happy to see my cat get enjoyment out of hunting those little guys. If he didn't eat them, I'd be upset because it would be a waste of their little lives. Bon apetit!

Here is a link that might be useful: Raw Diet