I tried AHS and Tinker's already...

The Salters ususally don't list parentage on the registrations, but they do in their catalogs. It seems to me I've never seen the parentage on Moonlit Masquerade. It could be the Salters weren't sure what the parentage was. All the parents involved are good ones. Just cross them! I never much worry about grandparents or great-grandparents of cultivars when I hybridize, just the parents. Are you worried the offspring might have some horrible genetic mutation? Both Moonlit Masquerade and Gillian produce excellent babies.

Debra

Knowing the parents of these named cultivars is very important, as the F2 generation is more likely to resemble grandparents than parents. It would be most beneficial in planning crosses to know the ancestry back two or three generations, at the very least.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mendelian Genetics

Najoba,
You are a very scientific person. The problem with getting the genetics on a lot of daylilies is that many parents on the family trees are unknowns or seedlings known only to their hybridizers. What I am wondering more than genetics about this possible cross is whether the pods would even have time to mature considering winter is fast approaching. Maybe Fairysoap has them in a greenhouse, I don't know.

Just wondering about other backyard hybridizers, how much research do you do on past generations of the parents you are using? Something like Moonlit Masquerade, with at least 86 registered offspring, I wouldn't take the time to research its genetics. As far as I'm concerned it's a proven winner. The same thing with JANICE BROWN. I could care less about her unknown parents. I look at the offspring out there and figure it's a pretty good parent - tried and true.

Debra, right-brained spaghetti-on-the-wall hybridzer, using the discovery method of learning

Well, Debra, I bred and showed Shih Tzu dogs and had seven champions. To be a successful dog breeder, I studied genetics. There is a lot more to breeding than just one pretty face to another, whether it be dogs or daylilies.

The daylilies mentioned here in this thread are fine, and proven parents of notable progeny. But if fairysoapgirl is cross-pollinating to improve daylilies, she will consider the strong points and the weak of each parent and grandparent, and try to correct any deficiencies in the next generation. Or if she is looking for a desired outcome in the progeny, she will want to know about the possible results that she can obtain through careful analysis of the pros and cons of parents and especially grandparents.

There is nothing wrong with cross-pollinating two fine daylilies. It depends on what one wants to achieve in the long run. Even taking a studied and scientific approach gives no guarantees. It only increases the odds of achieving the desired end result.

For example, I have two diploid daylilies that have outstanding characteristics. Given sufficient rainfall, they bloom from March to August, non-stop. They are very healthy plants, even though they have never been fertilized or sprayed with anything at all. They are very fertile in four ways: pollen, pods, naturally occurring proliferations and increasing fans. With these characteristics, I think their genes should be preserved for future generations. So impressed I am with their qualities, I hope to have them converted to tetraploid, also. Why? Because they have much to contribute to the improvement of the modern daylily.

As for plant diseases, careful breeding can help to reduce or eliminate them. What if one of these listed daylilies should have a parent that is a rust magnet? (I'm not saying that this is the case.) Even if one of these daylilies shows no signs of the disease, the gene for susceptibility can be carried recessively down to future generations. That's another serious reason that it is important to know who the parents are.

Here's a brief example, albeit an oversimplification: I have a very pretty spider daylily that is not pod fertile. If I cross that daylily with one of my two daylilies mentioned above, I could then hope for some of the progeny of that cross to have the physical appearance of the pretty spider, and the pod fertility of the other parent. In that way, I would be making an improvement.

Making informed choices in breeding is how I was fortunate enough to produce one of the top Shih Tzu at the National Specialty some years back.

Planning your crosses is a matter of choice left up to the individual. It's your call, but I doubt that you will find very many of the highly successful hybridizers who do not take genetics into consideration.

Najoba - I'm not saying to forget genetics. What I'm saying is if parentage is not available and the hybridizer was highly successful, he probably did use good parent in the first place. I would never NOT cross two plants just because I couldn't fill out all the branches on a family tree. Intuition plays an important role in hybridizing, too. I think breaks in daylily hybridizng come from taking some risks.

Debra

Wow najoba - a Shih Tzu breeder. One of the breeds I specilized in when I was a pro handler were ST's. Actually anything with drop coats. What is (was) your kennel name, I may know you. Congrats on a National win because I know how difficult those are.

Having learned my genetics from dog breeding it is interesting for me to see people confuse inbreeding, line breeding and outcrossing. Many people believe if you continually outcross you are strengthening the genetic material to improve plant quality/ease of growing. But the secret to outcrossing is every time you do it, you are introducing every gene within that plant into the progeny, albeit just 50%, You haven't eliminated any bad (or good) gene into the seedling. It may lay around doing nothing until the next generation, when the gene can be introduced via another outcross. Genes are never eliminated from anything, they just wait until a friend shows up so they can unite and plague you.

Debra is correct because some info is never known or given by the hybridizer. But searching and researching can certainly help and entertain you.

Brooke

As Debra says, not always possible to trace ancestry very far back but fun if you can.

Well, I crossed the two - one each way and we'll see what happens. No greenhouse, just nice warm weather so far. I am probably pushing my luck a bit, but hey - they bloomed! :o)

I really wanted to know what the parents/grandparents/ggp were so that I could see what might happen in my crosses and if there were any similarities in their backgrounds. I am a little concerned about Hi Ho Silver gen. because there are two 'candies' in her tree (Wintermint Candy & Plum Candy) and I have read a lot of reports of rust susceptibility in the Candy series (my own Strawberry Candy is a rust magnet).

I am just starting out crossing, but I figure I might as well produce plants that are better than what I have now (stronger scapes, better foliage, more fertile, different blooms etcÂ)

One of my favorite crosses in Hi Ho SilverÂs lines is (Dalai Lama x Teahouse Geisha) Â just makes me laugh!

Also it is interesting to me... what crosses produced what babies... and which CVÂs have been crossed more than once in the genetic background (I am sure there is a word for this, I just donÂt know it). For instance ÂCrestwood Ann was used by both Munson and Moldovan CVs, therefore producing offspring that were used to make ÂHi Ho Silver  so I have twice the likely hood of these genetics popping forward. Same case for ÂTet Virginia HensonÂ. There are LOTS of Munson genetics going on in there  and I like his work And interesting that there are a TON of reds in the background. Bet I will get some red crossesÂ.

I never found more info on Gillian farther than listed above I just wanted to rule out the case that they had a very similar background, which I thought would make it more likely to recombine genes that might not be favorableÂ

I guess I am not Âspaghetti on the wallÂ! :o) But then again, I crossed them anyway MORE MEATBALLS!