Hello all....I haven't posted on here for a while, but thought you might be interested in Jack Carpenters' own response to his prices...and to me, yes they are worth it.--Bob Faulkner--Ohio Jack writes ................. It certainly was not my intention to cause any distress to anyone with daylilies that Josie and I released this year. We had hoped that you would enjoy seeing the pictures of them and enjoy them. I receive many catalogues and like some of you, I can not afford to purchase some of them and, certainly, not all of those I would like to have. Behind the scenes as well as in the garden, there is, I suspect, some bargaining, some deals and trading, some purchasing, that is going on among the hybridizers and their customers that many of us never hear about. Some deals and price offers are made that would surprise many of us I am sure. Is any athletic game worth the high price of tickets paid for them? Is an athletes salary to have fun (and work) playing a particular sport worth millions in salary? The value of something to any particular person depends on several issues. What is a baseball card worth? - A million dollars? Not to me. What is a vintage automobile worth to a person whose delights and loves are the simple rural countryside and the garden they live and work in; as compared to the automobile collector and connoisseur of vintage automobiles. I love antiques and Fenton glass and cloisonné. When my dad was still with us he would look at me with that funny look that I had lost my mind for spending $150 on that beautiful Fenton glass basket or bowl. I would say to him, "You are absolutely right!" and then take my seat and look at them for hours spellbound in their beauty as I secretly said to myself, "I made a good deal on these!" LOL Now, do you think I would let my dad know about the $385.00 cost of the cut crystal bowl that set on the table he walked by? LOL No, I surely did not want to upset him, but every time I walk by it I see the great skill and craftsmanship and the artists signature who did the work on that glass masterpiece. I think I made a good purchase and I have never regretted making that purchase. The value of something all depends on the frame of mind of the person looking at something. The boating sports enthusiast and fisherman sees a boat rig in a different value frame than the person who is terrified of water and canÂt swim or the person who does not know how to use a rod and reel. My problem is that I like too many of those different things also! LOL Back to the daylilies- many of us in the daylily world are just like a sports enthusiast, or an antique collector, or a car collector, and on and on one might go with the particular areas that are a fancy or specialty to someone. I do not think we are any different than nuts in any other area where people find pleasure and fulfillment of those things that are very important to them. Yes, I said ÂNuts. I think I sometimes am one. My dad sure did when I told him I spent $25.00 on a daylily. I remember my dadÂs brother, my uncle, saying to me that he wanted to see the day I ever sold a daylily for $25.00. He li ved to see the release of LAVENDER BLUE BABY. Have you ever dreamed about your daylilies? Have you ever dreamed about what those little black seeds hold in this yearÂs group of crosses? Have you ever gone to a hybridizerÂs garden and thought  Wow! This is just the plant I must have to accomplish the goal I have been aiming at for the last four years. Finally, you get up enough nerve to make an offer on it and are crushed when the hybridizer says no and delighted when he says yes to your offer of $500 for it. Was it worth it? - to the person buying it, yes - to another, perhaps not. What really matters in the final analysis rests within the person I think. Whether we drive a Chevrolet or a Cadillac, a Lexus, or a Rolls-Royce, whether we drive ourselves or have a chauffeur depends on circumstances and what is important to us. We see things from the perspective that our circumstances and situations, our environments have made for us. That is not necessarily bad, but it can make for a lot of difficulty when we are shaped by environments which bring us into conflict with each other. I have been offered $10,000 for a particular daylily by more than one hybridizer. Would I have been a criminal if I had sold it? I do not think so, although I did not sell it for even that price. Can you hear what my father is saying to his son right now? LOL If he had been standing beside me when the offer had been made and I refused- he would have said or done something drastic to me I fear as dad was from the old school. LOL Here is the history of the $500 daylily in the Spring 2009 Releases. The daylily is Josie BomarÂs. That price offer was made by a hybridizer who was looking at the flower from a hybridizerÂs viewpoint. This daylily was probably two years away from release due to the count of present stock. I told him I would see if Josie wanted to let him have it at the price he offered her. She thought the price was too high. Josie is always that way. I have chided her numerous times for her charity with her daylilies and with my farm also :-)  always wanting to give everyone the place for nothing!!! LOL J One day I came around the corner of the greenhouse to where four or five people were standing with Josie at her seedling bed. The shovel had already been pushed into the ground by one of her seedlings. I yelled, "WAIT! What are you doing?" It was obvious that they were digging that gorgeous, priceless, seedling of JosieÂs that had just bloomed for the first time and that had branching and everything going for it. I looked at Josie and said," Have you lost your mind. This seedling is priceless and will be a great future release for you." She was going to let it go as a $15.00 seedling. I took the shovel gently back out of the ground and apologized to the customer for having to do it and said this plant is not leaving the farm. After four or so years Josie released this as DINET SUE which continues to be a truly beautiful daylily and in demand. She is so deserving of reward for her work and time. I help her out this way all the time (definitely, my opinion J) , and she now almost always asks me for my opinion before letting something go. I have offered her $500 for one of her seedlings in years gone by and she was so generous that she told me I could have it for free. She is really a greedy person - Huh? Those were the good old days. Now, I fear she would sell it to anyone before she would let me have it! LOL She thinks I know something and now thinks if I want it, she better keep it! She is right about keeping it. She should keep it. Such beauties she has coming in the line-up! By the way does this above account explain to you why customers usually ask for Josie instead of me when they want the price on daylilies??? It just makes me so mad! LOL One of my customers just came right out and said it- she is nicer than you! ;-) Well, that is, of course, really true. Then, again, I am paying the bills on this farm. Let us go back to the customer offering her $500 for the seedling. She thought that was too much money to spend on a daylily. I told her she could opt to keep it for two more years until she had enough stock to let it go for perhaps $200 . She said, "What do you think I should do?" I said well, you could let him have it for that price since it was two years away. She said if I felt it was o.k. to go ahead and let him have it. I went back and told the customer she said yes. The person standing next to that customer said they wanted one too. What could one say to them seeing you had just let the person standing beside them have it. So the next customer got one. Then another customer up under the trees came and wanted one. In two days calls were coming in from daylily lovers wanting the $500 baby and some ordering more than one. Well, to shorten the story, I told Josie that enough already had the plant that we should go ahead and give it a name and put it in the catalogue. The price was maintained in fairness to those who already had purchased it at that price and due to the fact that it was being released with only half the stock normally required for such a release. That is the history of that one. By the way, this is the one that likely shared some background with the $10,000 seedling. There was no greed on anyoneÂs part in the pricing of Josie's daylily. See if you can find out what the name of it is. J It will surprise you! LOL Josie liked the name because it was spiritual. I liked it for both reasons. Hmmmm? LOL There were a number of daylily seedlings (one of a kind) that sold that same day in the garden for $500 each. That price being offered by the customers themselves. I doubt that any of those purchases was a mistake for the person purchasing them. Why supply and demand is not a valid issue is beyond me. Our whole capitalistic economics is based therein. If the Hope Diamond is to be sold and is one of a kind, why would the price not be affected thereby? (I just love to compare my daylilies with the Hope Diamond J ) Anyway, the seedling named STANDING ON THE PROMISES was released for $400 because the demand on it in the garden this year was present and it was two years away from release. One bought it and the next person wanted it and so on and on. I felt enough now had it that I should go ahead and name it and release it also. It would have been unfair to allow it to go for less than customers had just paid for it in the garden and due to the fact that it was being released almost two years before we would normally release it. At this point in time it is almost sold out already. I appreciate all of the comments I have heard in the various viewpoints presented on the robin. All are worthy of our reading and many on both sides of the issue have worth to them when we think about the issue. The cost and expenses we have today in running an operation have increased. Fertilizer cost of $10,000 for the nutricote was normal for a year. That increased to $13,750 this year for the same volume of fertilizer. The overall price of daylilies listed in our brochures is not out of line with other hybridizers in my opinion. Remember, the pricing of daylilies has a lot to do with the quality or attributes of each individual daylily. There are reasons why a daylily is priced at a lower price and a higher price. The reason that the WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE KING was only priced at $75.00 was because at this point in time we and others have released things very similar to it, as compared to the STANDING ON THE PROMISES which stands distinctively apart from other things in the patterned eyes. Yet, still, this is only as seen from my view point and perspective. Another may see this matter differently. I think that things are determined in regard to pricing by many different aspects. I remember when I was introducing the DIP LAVENDER BLUE BABY and the TET LAVENDER BLUE BABY. They were both released at the same time. My friend Oscie Whatley and I were having a phone conversation. I asked Oscie what he thought would be a fair price for the TET CONVERSION of LBB. He said nothing less than $500 a single fan. I thought that seemed a bit high. This was quite a few years ago. I had 40 plants of it. I followed his advice on the matter, however, and it was sold out in two weeks. I kept one plant. Others continued to sell it for years and eventually the price came down. Was it wrong for me to sell it at that price? Each person must decide that answer from the perspective from which they view the situation. The LAVENDER BLUE BABY Tet and dip have been a spring board into the work that is being done in that special color range. What was and is the worth of that particular daylily in the genetics of todayÂs daylilies in that color range? In any case we try to run our farm operation and do what we think is the fair thing to do. We have no wish to offend anyone with our pricing of daylilies. Running this operation is getting more difficult as I am getting older, however, and how much longer we will do this operation remains to be seen. I actually thought my cousins were going to buy the farm this past year, but the economy had an effect on that matter. Anyone need a farm? Call Jack. J In closing, then- climb every mountain, ford every stream, follow every rainbow until you find your dream. The world and the beauty we find in it gives us great joy. Do not walk this way and miss it all. By all means take time to see the little things. In spite of high prices on some things, I really think the best things in life are free. They can not be purchased with money. I will enjoy my daylilies both high and low priced ones, but I will enjoy the view of the mountains and sea and hills and valleys, sunrises and sunsets, more at no cost. Yet still, I will also enjoy sitting and looking at the beautiful Fenton glass and cut crystal sitting on top of the antique marble- topped tables. I will marvel at the artisan hands of men and their artistic creations. I appreciate them. I will smile as I remember the things my daddy said to me about such foolishness, while at the same time I see him speeding across the water in that costly boat rig to his favorite fishing reef! Perhaps beauty and value are simply in the eyes of the beholder. Ha! After writing this I now want to go fishing again. It has been 30 years. Wonder if I can still cast the rod and reel after all these years at daylilying? ;-) Jack Carpenter, Center, Texas, Zone 8b **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?

Hi all, and glad that you enjoyed the pics. I actually have quite a few more to post, but didn't have time to put them in this post. I will try to post some more tomorrow. Rita, ORCHID ELEGANCE is one of my favorites and a great performer. The color is a soft clear pinkish lavender, and my pic is pretty true to the actual color. The only other DL I have that is similar, but a bit bluer in color is LINDA SIERRA. I really love that one also. Glad you enjoyed the pics. Linda

I ran across this most excellent link last summer where Emmerich wrote about her experiences in hybridizing on the robin. I can't find the link but saved it as a word doc, so excuse the format. It was very helpful for me reading it as to get a perspective of what it's like to hybridize. Debbie, I think the majority of your ?'s will be answered here, at least from one hybridizer's perspective. Stamile is usually pretty good about helping folks out in his descriptions. An Excerpt from a post (with permission) from the DAYLILY robin. Subject: Pedigree charts - do you or don't you? From Karol Emmerich in very chilly Minneapolis, Zone 4, Region 1, where the sun is finally shining and the days are getting longer. Hybridizing season will start here in the greenhouse in about 2 months - pretty soon I will start to count the days:-) Donna Lockman asked about keeping pedigrees. When I started breeding daylilies seriously, I looked at what the leading hybridizers were doing and tried to figure out what I'd need to do to be able to produce flowers that could equal that kind of quality. 1. Numbers - Many leading hybridizers produce vast quantities of new seedlings each year - 30,000 to 70,000 are not uncommon. Most of them live in warmer climates than Minnesota, so they can plant seed- lings relatively close together and see the results of their efforts relatively quickly. Up here, we need to plant seedlings about a foot apart, because by the time they bloom on a decent scape, they're often clump size and would crowd anything planted closer. I knew that the acreage required to plant and irri- gate and the effort to weed and evaluate that many seedlings would be impossible for me. However, I noticed that there were a few outstanding hybridizers who only did 5000-7000 seedlings a year, so I fig- ured there was at least a possibility that I could succeed at those numbers. I decided that the best path for me was to spend more time on the thinking end of my crosses - working as smart as I could, rather than relying on the numbers game. It would require keeping the very best records about parentage that I could and gleaning every bit of information from them. 2. Parents - Obviously, using good parents is very important. But how does one figure out which of the many pretty ones on the market are good parents? (Over the years, I've found that gorgeous flowers can produce ugly kids and ugly ones can produce stars.) Frankly, the only way to know which plants are good breeders is to actually see the kinds of kids they produce. Some hybridizers show that kind of in- formation in their presentations and on their websites - many more do not. So my approach has been to do lots of experimentation. I started off doing tons of short crosses (3-5 seeds per cross), carefully label- ling each and compiling data. My main goal in the early years was amassing vast amounts of information about how each plant I was using would breed. I number each promising seedling and note its parents (and the parentage of those parents). I make a notebook of each year's seedlings, and include all rele- vant data. I also develop a master book each year that sorts what I've planted by pollen parent and then by pod parent. Each night I record the results of that day's promising seedlings. I'm able to quickly dis- cover if certain parents crop up again and again, and I'm able to use that information to make crosses the next day. Once I find a superparent, I will use it in many crosses. After ten years, I'm still making short crosses, although I will make heavy bets on a given pod or pollen parent - using them with many other parents. Over the years, through all the record-keeping, I've learned how specific plants work - which ones give good scapes or height or hardiness or dormancy or good color or large flowers or consistent "breaks" in looks. When I find those that consistently produce breaks in looks - and there aren't many that do - I use them a lot, since that's what makes hybridizing such fun to see something that's never ex- isted before. When I prepare slide shows, I will often show the complete family tree, often going back 5 or more generations - to demonstrate exactly how I got to a given seedling or new introduction. Not only is this informative to those in the audience interested in the thought process of making crosses, but it also teaches me a lot about what I might want to do in making crosses for the next season. I also learn a lot of interesting things - for example, lavenders started showing up all over the place this past year from different parents, none of which was even close to lavender. I was able to trace almost all of them back to a common sharky purple grandparent. Donna asked about unknown parents. I try very hard to keep tags with each cross, and just to be sure, right after planting, I make a map of the entire site. Time con- suming, to say the least, and not for everyone. Sometimes, despite best efforts, before the map is made, the tags can be off by a plant or two. And if they're not mapped, after 3 years, the tags can fade or break or be eaten by a deer or fall into a hole dug by a critter. Karol at springwoodgardens.com Page 20 20 Breeding basics  Karol Emmerich (this is primarily notes and a listingÂintended as primer and a rough outline) - Put Tet with Tet, dip with dip - Use pollen thatÂs viable: 1) not the white stuff 2) Can freeze it or 3) can pick the flower in the morning and put it in the refrigerator for up to 2-3 days. - Make sure to buy at least some daylilies which are pod fertile - Think about what you want to achieve  eyes with edges, reds with white edges, pinks with sharks teeth, exotics, and spiders  and what you think might help you get there. - Cross with the best things you can afford  what does the best mean? Based on what youÂre try- ing to achieve. If youÂre having a problem with fanciness, buy the fanciest things you can, but unless youÂre working in a GH, make sure theyÂre winter hardy. If a problem with branching, choose well branched parents. If a problem with things too short, choose taller parents. If colors are dull, buy things with rich clear color. Study the genetics, and see if you can learn how the plant breeds. Some pretty parents are duds, and some ugly ones  like Darla Anita  make gorgeous, well-branched kids. How to learn how a plant breeds? Not always easy. Some folks  like me  share all their crosses. Many wonÂt, since they consider it a competitive secret. But if youÂre spending $250 for a plant, would be nice to have some idea. In my catalogue this year, I showed a number of the seedlings from Heartbeat of Heaven, plus many more on the website  and at all the events I spoke at this year and last, I distributed a list of all the crosses I made to get its kids and grandkids  and will share them with anyone who e-mails. That said, my introduction this year called Peace Beyond Understanding was never bred with before it went on the market at a higher than average price. I didnÂt understand what possibilities might be locked up in it the way Larry Grace, the renowned yellow breeder did. He looked at height and great scape and Tet Siloam Ralph Henry and figured it was a good bet. - Line breeding can help you move quickly, although it will still be someone elseÂs look. A number of folks cross Stamile pinks with each other, for example, and theyÂll get pretty Stamile-looking pinks. But an important goal for anyone doing this seriously is to eventually get your own look  the way youÂll see IÂve done with purples. - When you make a cross, think about what the outcome might be. Make the cross with the thought that the kids will be better in some way than the parents youÂre working with. Take the flower with you when you breed  try to look at the face carefully and see how it seems to go with the other one  I used to try to do it from memory or pictures, but you lose the subtleties of color and form and patterns. LetÂs talk about characteristics that are dominant when you breed, for better or worse: Most important for northerner is hardiness! ItÂs the platform on which the flower is built  with- out that, you have nothing. While itÂs possible to get hardy seedlings with tender parents  e.g. Intelligent Design from Ancient Reflections and Mask of Eternity  youÂre more likely to get lots of holes  see my 16399 and its kids  or Tet Painted Rose  etc. Unless you want lots of holes, make sure that at least one of the parents is very hardy  preferably both. I admit that this has been my biggest challenge, since I used lots of tender things because of their fancy faces  which is what the northern plants were missing. ItÂs also harder to work with some hardy dormants in the GH  many donÂt look good or branch or multiply well  thatÂs why I tag all my dormants inside and make sure I donÂt throw them away. And I leave them outside until I know if theyÂre good or not. Page 21 21 Next, if the flower wonÂt open, you donÂt really have a flower. Best to use good openers with good openers, untangled with untangled. If you love a slow opener that has other wonderful characteristics  like the great color in Vatican City and Joan Derifield, or one that gets easily tangled on its ruffles, use it with a terrific opener. For example, I wanted to do purples, but knew that a lot of them were out of the Tet Grand Masterpiece line that is very dominant in terms of poor opening in the mornings  Shaka Zulu, Mountain Majesty, Vatican City. So I used the tender Lifting Me Higher, which flopped open all the purples. Poor bud count also appears to be dominant. Every once in a while 2 low bud count parents will give you decent bud count, but not worth the agony  make sure at least one is good. This year IÂm using one thatÂs to die for pretty and a huge breeding break with 8 buds  but only on things with 30 plus buds. Short scapes are dominant. My Rock of Salvation is only 18-22"  good bud count and makes gorgeous kids  but a large percentage of them are 18-20" which I consider shorter than de- sirable on a 7" flower. Larry Grace produced the most beautiful yellow faces in the world  with good branching  but he started with short scapes  things like Larry Grace, Key Lime Ice, etc  and got them so bred into his lines, that most of his things are short  the reason he went nuts for Peace Beyond Understanding, and why the plants heÂs buying to start his new breeding program are lots taller. I personally like ones that are at least 30 inches  hard for me to cross on shorter ones at all  I just donÂt want to bend over to look at them  but if they have a great scape and gorgeous flower, IÂll put them with something very tall and pray. Nasty foliage is dominant. Most things out of Shimmering Elegance will show leaf streak, includ- ing my Rock of Salvation. So why introduce it if too short and sometimes bad foliage? A huge breeding break in terms of size and form, and folks who see it gasp. Best to avoid it  can take a couple of generations to get around  but sometimes you need what the other characteristics can bring to the table. Rot is dominant  not a big problem in the north, except that many things that rot in the heat and moisture of the south will winter rot here  the AdmiralÂs Braid line, Larry Grace, Key Lime, Ed Brown, Ancient Reflections, etc. Just be sure to put a rotter with a non-rotter. IÂve found that Pat StamileÂs pinks are usually a good match for rotters and seem to inoculate the seedlings against it. That said, I understand that a lot of PatÂs pinks get rust  again, not a problem for us, but might be something to think about when selling your plants in the south  except most of them spray anyway. My big concern is hardiness, and PatÂs older things have been critical in bringing that to my program. As I said earlier, virtually every flower has a flaw. Eyes appear to be dominant. Nasty color is often dominant. I know that if you cross 2 things with a "matte" finish or a muddy color, youÂre unlikely to get crystal clear color. From the outset, I tossed those, so now I donÂt have to worry a lot about it. I think if you use clear daylilies with each other, the babies will be clear. But I also know that nasty Darla Anita can give some gorgeous clear kids. Substance can be dominant  all of the kids of thick Rock of Salvation are thick. Many of the spidery and exotic things from the south breed thin. Lack of sunfastness is another issue to deal with in darker things, and I think itÂs also dominant. I love purples, many of which melt  so I used Lifting Me Higher and Tet Lavender Blue Baby, which have no traditional purple breeding in their background, and as a result, most of my purple kids are sunfast. IÂve also found that if you use darker things that have yellow in their background theyÂll be more sunfast. Page 22 22 Bloom season  not sure on this one, but I know that almost all my purples out of Late Mid to Early Late Heartbeat of Heaven are also LM to EL. When making selections, look for all these things, plus: Insect resistance  aphids and thrips in particular. Some are thrip or aphid magnets  I donÂt know if they pass this on, but not worth taking the chance? In any event, introduce only if blooms are usu- ally flawless. Watch out for premature openers  might be passed on  thatÂs where they start to open the night before and dew or water gets in. Look for well-spaced branching. Ideally look for things that are self-cleaning instead of gloppy, but frankly, that one is low on my list unless a HUGE mess. CMO appears to be dominant

Thanks Dot, you know what I've been through, your emails sure brought me bits of laughter through some of my tougher times, not to mention all your GORGEOUS flower pixs! Thanks for your vote on Lav. Blue Baby. This one resides in my bonus bed and just started blooming a week ago. My tet and dip versions are well established and marked in the main bed so looks like I've got xtra now! Only time will tell to see whether tet or dip pods form in order to figure out the ploidy. any other suggestions for the others are welcomed! Thanks y'all! Nancy