Now you should plant them. You don't have to remove them from the paper towel - just carefully cut the germinated seeds apart and leave them attached to a little square of paper towel. Then plant each one, paper towel and all.

Perhaps you can cut the paper towel and try planting them with the piece of paper towel they are stuck to, seed side up, sprout down...?

Let us know how this works. If it does I'll plant all my peppers that way.
john

yeah... i've tried this. limited success on transplanting them to soil. but that's me, and you're you. do let us know how they come out.

my new MOST FAVORITE WAY EVER to germinate--in bottoms of cardboard milk cartons (cut the bottom 2" off, then lots of drainage holes), a mix of one part powdered coir to six parts turface. that's al's seedling mix (he uses chopped sphagnum moss). it's AWESOME! the seedlings are so vigorous...

So, after I cut these things out of the paper towel how DEEP do I plant them?

Michael, what the heck is powdered coir and what is it used for? I have plenty of Turface but I'm a little lost as you also mention sphagnum moss and somehow this thing isn't coming together in my mind :-(

I've always been happy with my little Burpee Grow cubes but I'm trying to be open-minded to trying new things.

Tom

coir is coconut fiber. i buy it in blocks from golden harvest organic products, the same place i get my awesome SUPREME NEEM. one block gives you a LOT of coir. al uses sphagnum, but you could also use peat. anyway, his recipe (i think he sent it to me... it might not be on gw) is 1 part coir/peat/sphagnum to 6 parts screened turface. it's a great, sterile mix. very cheap. i've only just started to use it and my initial reaction is WOW--the seedlings are very quck to germinate and very quick to grow. no damping off, which plagues me this time of year.

try it out with peat if you don't have finely chopped sphagnum or coir... and you should order a bunch of supreme neem and coir bricks from gh!

I couldn't get my green pepper seeds to germinate and I used the paper towel method. After they sprouted (and were attached to the paper towel) I cut around each sprout and planted in a small pot. They all seem to be doing fine.

Michael, I've never had a problem getting first year seeds to germinate well in the Burpee grow cubes, no damping off at all but then I start them inside under grow lights and move them out at the pot-up after 2-3 weeks. After reading at the Pepper Forum that most pepper seedling problems are secondary to peat, and based on a recommendation there, I just started a batch in MG Organic Choice. It does seem to me that the peppers in the MG are growing faster, might have to run an experiment with tomatoes in the spring.

I am familiar with coir but I've never heard of powdering it, and so far I have not been wild about the idea of screening Turface...can you post some pictures with growth rates?

With 2 year old seed the germination rate seems to go down to about 75-80% for me, with 3 year old seed slightly less, so I thought why not try the paper towel method....

Vanbrat, how long were your sprouts and how deep did you plant them. Like I said, these things are only a 1/4" tall, how do I bury them? I've put them back in the open ziploc for now trying to get them to a length of about an inch so I'd have something to bury.

I am impressed so far, we'll see after transplant....

Tom

tom, you vastly overestimate my level of organization... but anyway i've long been looking for an essentially sterile, essentially inorganic mix to start seeds in... this one fits the bill. (coir isn't inorganic, but it comes as close as anything to it!)

why not try various depths? my experience (fwiw, i'm no propagating maven by any stretch of the imagination): very small seedlings, esp tough ones from solanaceae--their stems aren't very differentiated. that's why you can (but shouldn't!) plant tomato seedlings very deeply and they have no problem setting roots where once leaf petioles grew.

i'm trying to simplify my seedling setup. i used to up-plant my seedlings repeatedly, often as many as four times. now i'm going to do what christine does--seeds in a seedling mix, in a low container... let 'em grow till they're big enough to transplant into 20oz styros (christine uses smaller ones)... then into the garden. another tip i got from christine is to rip the bottom half of the styro off, and jam the whole thing into the ground, cup and plant together. great since you have a built-in cutworm collar, a label, and it's easier to water very small seedlings.

Tom, I hope that by now you transplanted the seedlings. Think about how they come out of any medium. Seed goes under and sprout on top, be gentle, otherwise they break.

I found out like you the easiest to germinate are from fresh seeds. But,I germinated some pepper seeds that I had for 10 years or more.

Let us know how your peppers come out.

Silvia

i'm trying to simplify my seedling setup. i used to up-plant my seedlings repeatedly, often as many as four times

Yikes Michael, I pot-up once from my 3oz cups to my cut off 2L coke bottles, then set in the garden so that's close to what Christine does, the only difference is that seeing through the coke bottles allows me to watch how quickly the mix dries out, thus I know when to water. It also allows me to see when the roots creep out to the edge, which is my cue to set the plants soon....

Tom, I hope that by now you transplanted the seedlings.

Silvia, they're too small to transplant, only a 1/4" in length...unless I can get them to at least 1" I have nothing to transplant. I'm not without seedlings though, the ones below were started at the same time, including some pepino seeds Veronica gave me.

I dropped the lignt down on these seedlings when I went to take this picture and busted one of the Beefmaster maters :-(

Tom

Did you see Tom? I knew that you were going to drop the light. lol. That is why I told you to be gentle.

Nice looking set up and seedlings. It looks like you have it all figured out.

Silvia

Tom
My pepper sprouts were about the size of yours. I gently put a little indentation in the compost mix and gently brushed compost around them. Two of them have stood up quite well with two good strong leaves. The other one is just kind of resting on the top of the soil. I put them in the pots about a week and half ago. I will keep you posted. I also did broccoli in the paper towel and they are a little spindly (sp),

I'm trying something new to see if I can extend the seed shelf life Tom was talking about. Last spring I bought a FoodSaver vacuum sealer. I wanted it mostly for extending the life of all of the fruits and veggies that are in the freezer. I thought, why not vacuum pack my extra seeds. I bought some FoodSaver canisters so the seeds wouldn't get compressed. Today, I just got in the mail some vacuum canning jar lids for bulk seeds (like Rattlesnake beans). I'm very optimistic and hopeful that this will make a difference.

If anyone else has any experience with this I would love to hear your opinion.

Christine

Vanbrat - keep me posted on how you do

Silvia - that Beefmaster stem is now reaching back toward the light, "U" shaped stem above the insult...I told you Beefmasters were hearty :-)

Christine - that sounds really cool, I hope it works.

I have plenty of pepper seedlings so I think I'll just continue this little experiment. Right now they are still in the opened bag as I really want the stems longer before trying to transplant them. I'm thinking of spraying the paper towel with a little seaweed fertilizer to see if a very mild nutrient might pick things up some.

Tom

Tom - that's quite an impressive little grow house you have there!

I took your lead and am trying my luck with the paper towel process. It seems that no matter what I try, my pepper plants never survive.

I have a pic of "my" seed storage process. Hardly 'high-tech', but from lots of prior biz travel and room-service meals, I've accummulated a lot of small glass jars that seem like a good storage option. ;-)

sainpfla

Do you like hot peppers? If so, the dried ones that I have from Pike market in Seattle germinate well. I have a whole stack of different hot peppers. It probably going to last me a lifetime! lol

Silvia

Hi Silvia,

Yes, I do. I don't like the hot, hot, hot ones (ie: habaneros), but enjoy a little heat now and then.

Funny...I used to live in Seattle (as of 3 yrs. ago...) and went to Pike's frequently. I enjoyed watching the fish throwers and buying veggies there.

Hi saintpfla

I remember you talked about Seattle one time, that is why I said about the hot peppers.

I collect spices, and the Pike's market is one good place to get them.

And I have dried hot peppers for all the tastes. They are specifically label with place of origin and heat index and flavors. Some of them are very fruity and at the same time hot. I keep them in their original cellophane wrappers. The ones that are in powder, I keep them in small glass containers.

I keep all my seeds away from light, in a well ventilated, cool area, in a filing cabinet.

Silvia

why not try various depths? my experience (fwiw, i'm no propagating maven by any stretch of the imagination): very small seedlings, esp tough ones from solanaceae--their stems aren't very differentiated. that's why you can (but shouldn't!) plant tomato seedlings very deeply and they have no problem setting roots where once leaf petioles grew.

=====================================
No one else commented on this, am I the only one on this thread that still buries their seedlings 80% of the stem on transplant. I do it when I move from 3oz to 8oz to 6 in clay to the final spot. Is that a no-no??

bernie

bernie, i think the whole advice to bury solanaceae (peppers, tomatoes, eggplants) "deep" in order to enhance rooting... i think that's just superstition. it doesn't make sense botanically. roots are highly specialized--the ones near the surface are engaged in gas exchange... then you stick 'em a foot deep... where there's no gas exchange. they just rot off.

maybe i'm wrong, but i wonder if anyone has ever done a study on the benefits of deep planting. personally, i don't do it, and i bet my tomatoes are the better for it.

Well heck, I am going to do a comparison although not very scientific to see if I can see a difference between the two!

How about Tom, he always tests different ideas?

Let's get a couple of us to try both ways with everything else as common as we can get it.

bernie

SPF - cool, nice collection of seeds. Don't forget to leave the ziploc OPEN, it's a greenhouse effect and you'll need gas exchange....

Michale - I think my mater's do better buried deep, but then again since I'm using the 2L soda bottles cut in half after the seedling pot-up I can SEE what's happening with the soil moisture and root growth before the final set 8-) Pepper's, on the other hand, don't seem to do well with this method as they are more than willing to damp-off when buried, whether you can see the soil dynamics or not.... Point being that I don't think all solanaceae are born the same, just an observation on my part but maters like wet feet, peppers don't :-(

Bernie - thanks for the mangos ;-)

Tom

Tom: thanks for the tip on 'leaving the bag open'...I had it sealed! Oops! ;-)

Silvia: That's really neat that you have a hot pepper spice collection! Pikes' is such a great place to find variety especially in peppers. Lots of Asian varieties that are hard to find in Florida.

I'm recalling some of the fabulous meals I've seen pictures of that you've posted. I bet it's pretty hard to find someone who won't eat what you serve no matter how hot & spicy! :-)

Bernie and Michael --- Tomatoes are the only plants that are supposed to be planted deeper. It is not superstition or an old wives tale. It is a very good growing practice. It helps the plant develop a deeper root system which is important because tomatoes are such water hogs. Also, if you have a very tall, leggy tomato plant needing to be planted you can gently bend the stem in a "L" shape to get more of the stem in the ground without getting it too deep. Like, Tom said, peppers should never be planted deeper.

Tom, looking forward to seeing the fruits on those pepper seedlings. Nice seed sprouting setup.

Christine

when someone proves to me that the stem doesn't simply rot away, a foot under the soil, i'll start burying mine... just because tomatoes have adventitious roots doesn't mean they grow better planted deeply... lots of things that make sense logically don't work in the garden!

next spring, bernie, let's plan on experimenting with container-grown tomatoes, seedlings at deeper depths... sounds fun.

U of FL did s study that showed bell peppers produced better if buried to the first true leaves. I've read that greenhouse growers do this in pine bark. I'm trying it.
john

Michael--- I have to strongly, respectfully, disagree with you about the tomatoes. I didn't say that I plant them an extra foot deeper, but I would not hesitate to go 6 inches deeper if the extra stem length is present. You want proof? This picture was taken a few minutes ago as proof that planting deeper really works. Do they look like they have rotted roots?

John--- I only plant peppers slightly deeper with mulch only.

Christine

christine, you know well that in almost everything i submit to your wisdom in things gardening... but the question isn't whether they DO grow when buried deep (clearly they do), rather... whether or not they grow BETTER...

that said, as usual, your tomatoes are gorgeous and make me green with envy.

OK then, Michael, you will just have to do your experiments. I'm done with mine because I've already proven it to myself.

Looking forward to your tomato photo results next spring.

Christine

Are you two throwing tomatoes at each other, if so, why waste good tomatoes? Mikey, it's not a question of if they grow better, it's a question of if they grow HEALTHIER 8-)

Observation, when I look at your pics vs. Christine's I see lots of sun in hers and lots of shade in yours for the tomatoes, might be that while yours don't fry you have considerably more damp-off problems with burying them, just as with me while the ones on the shady end of the garden don't fry they sure suffer more mildew problems....

What's that old saying, location, location, location....

Looking forward to seeing everyone next Saturday!

Tom

Well, I'm confused. But at least I learned I shouldn't plant my peppers deep. Did that last year and lost every one. But I also planted my tomatoes deep, up-potting them and going a little deeper each time, and had pretty good results, considering what an amateur I am.

there are varieties of tomatoes that specifically call for planting deep in home depot

i hear tomatoes are the exception to the "dont plant to deep" rule and can be planted a full 2/3 under ground.

Tom, do you have a photo of your 2-liter coke bottles in use? How do you cut the tops off - plain ol' pair of scissors? What is your method for putting holes in the bottom for drainage?

Hi LTY,

Getting ready to go out for dinner, too dark now anyway for pictures, will post pics tomorrow.

1) Take knife and slit wrapper, pull off coke bottle
2) Use knife to puncture 2" slit horizontally through middle of coke bottle
3) Push scissors through slit in coke bottle and cut top half of bottle off
4) Hold bottom half of coke bottle with one hand and with other hand angle scissors at 45 degree angle cutting off top of bottom section until you reach about 2" above horizontal line around bottom section of bottle where they obviously seemed the plastic together, then turn horizontally and cut the rest off (leaves about a third of the bottom section of the coke bottle).
5) Drill 3/8" to 1/2" holes at 45 degree angles in the five points of the bottom supports.

Tom

Oh, Tom, you make a great referee. Michael has much more sun in his yard now so that will be to his advantage.

Christine

Thanks Christine, I'm trying ;-)

LTY, here's a few pictures from last year....

TOM

I step up my seedlings at least 3 times in 20 oz plastic cups, I end up with a tom seedling at least a foot tall. When I put it in its new home I take all leaves off except for the top 2 or 3 and plant the plant up to the bottom of the few leaves left. Most time I have at least a foot in the ground, this works very well for me,and has for at least 40 yrs.

Hey Tom, I like your coke bottle setup. Thank you for posting that. I guess I will switch to those once my seedligs outgrow the peat pots. By-the-way what do you do when your tomotoe plants get taller than the cages? I had to put in 7' tall stakes and tie them to support the fruits that are growing higher than the 5' cages.

2 weeks in 3oz. bathroom solo cups under fluorescent lights right down on top of the cups, then into the coke bottles outside for 4 weeks, then into their final resting place.

SB50 - I just guide the vines through the top of my 6' cages and then let them hang down where ever they want to go until they are finished. I have to admit I like Raybo's (Container Gardening forum) 54" Wally World Glamos cages set one on top of the other with 1/8" wire rope clips.

{{gwi:26462}}

This can be done with either the Glamos 42" or 54" cages, or with the Gardman 54" plastic-coated cages. I went bargain hunting today and got twenty two of the Gardman 54" cages at Target for 50% off, $6 each :-)

BTW, I think the peppers germinated in Burpee peat cubes or MG Organic Choice in 3oz. solo cups did much better than the ones germinated in the paper towels.

Tom