Most heat tolerant Abies

16 years ago

To those in the know, what would you consider the most heat tolerant Abies species?

I live in Northern Utah (4b), but we hit 100F every summer and 90+F for weeks on end sometimes. We are at 4,500' (~1,400m) elevation.

I have Fraier, Balsam, and Grand firs planted that are seeming to make it okay. Are there any others you could suggest I try. I love firs and have plent of room to plant several.

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Comments (9)

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
16 years ago
Are there any that you tried and they died? Perhaps concolor or lasiocarpa might make it. You may find some Abies will take the heat if their roots are kept cool (ground covers, ice cubes, etc) until they are established in a few years.

tj
pineresin
16 years ago
The most heat tolerant Abies is probably Abies firma, but that isn't zone 4 hardy.

I'd guess A. concolor is likely to be the most reliable in your area. Abies holophylla is also worth trying, if you can find it.

Resin
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Well, the different opinions may well be because of different zones/climates. Drought tolerance is relative, I am sure. Anyway, here near Winchester VA, a dry and hot Z6, we have a number or Nordmann fir growing in the Virginia Arboretum. They are about 70 years old and seem to be doing nicely, with one exception. One nice one has recently gone into a step decline. I don't know the cause, but it could be partly because of drought stress. But these trees have been surviving for 70 years and I am sure most, if not all of them, have not been watered during any droughts during the last many, many years. I have been growing three of these, but because they are small, I have been watering them during dry spells. I am pretty sure the Nordmann fir will do well in areas that are too hot and dry/drought prone for Faszier fir. But I very much doubt that they have drought tolerance anything like Norway spruce, which as far as I can see has excellent drought tolerance, but not tolerance for persistantly low rainfall/excessively well-drained soils. My opinion? --go ahead and plant the Nordamnn fir. I am sure they will do fine. But I would water them during dry spells for the first 4 to 6 years, depending on your soils and how fast they grow. My soils are of a kind that makes it difficult for some kinds of trees to become established and start fast growth (not Norway spruce, which takes off fast here), so I have been careful to protect my Nordmann firs from droughts, at least for now. --Spruce
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Beutiful photos from Conifers. Also, you are right-Thuja occidentalis is grown throughout the Atlanta area. wrt comments from Pineresin.Thank you for the corrections in nomenclature. Would like to add a few comments: 1. Taiwania flousiana vs. cryptomeriodes-I have read that flousiana grows a leader very easily and has a less blue green color, and this is the same behavior I have seen in the specimens I have grown. Can't comment on whether flousiana is actually a distinct species. 2. darjeelingsensis vs. cashmeriana vs. pseudohimlaicia-I have acquired several Cuppressus "darjeelingsensis" and a couple of "psuedohimalaica" from a US supplier (these are the names used by the supplier). The supplier calls the seed-grown trees darjeelingsensis and trees grown from cuttings, pseudohimalaica, and the pseudohimalaica have the weeping bluish branchlets that I have seen on trees called cashmeriana in botanic gardens in the US. The two pseudohimalaica I have, have only survived one mild winter here, so I don't know if they are viable in Atlanta, but they will be a wonderful addition to the local landscape if they are hardy here. (The Atlanta Botanic Garden grows their "cashmeriana" indoors in pots). The ABG "cashmeriana" and the "cashmeriana" grown at the Huntington Botanical Garden in Pasadena have the same appearance as the pseudohimalaica). 3. I have seen that Cunninghamia "unicaniculata" listed as lanceolota in almost all references as you indicate. Some suppliers in the US distinguish between them, perhaps because of the appearance, which is quite distinct, and climate preferences. In terms of climate preferences, the unicaniculata sold commercially in the US have behaved more like konishi than lanceolata for me. I understand that there is also controversy as to whether konishi shoud be a separate species (from lanceolata). 4. Chamaecyparis thyoides var. Henryae-quite right.
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dcsteg
16 years ago
I have a collector friend that did the ice cube thing for several years on a Abies koreana 'Silberlocke'. Plant is now well established but it suffers to some degree from the high humidity and heat in the Kansas City area.

Don't we all love firs. Wish I could grow them.

Dave
flattie
16 years ago
Concolor would be my guess, especially if sourced from xeric sites in the SW such as the Sandia, Organ, Guadulupe, Davis, and Gila mountain ranges in the SW USA. I know of some in high desert conditions in the Sandia mountains nearby me. They really do prefer wetter sites, but will take root in some amazingly dry sites now and then. I have seen concolor growing among opuntia (both cholla and prickly pear), yucca bacatta, piÃ±on, mountain mahogany and other plants typical of dry sites. I have seen some in places in our foothills that do see 100s once every few summers. I can't think of any other fir that naturally grows among yucca and cacti (in this part of the world at least), so that ought to tell you everything about white fir's heat and drought tolerance. Just my two cents.
ospreynn
16 years ago
Organ, I've never seen A. concolor in the Organs.....

osprey
thomashton
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't tried A. concolor yet. Probably a relatively easy one to obtain too.

I have lost A. lasiocarpa that was sourced from Arizona (I believe it was was A. l. arizonica from Lawyer). They were all bare root and I didn't really know how to take care of them at the time. Also, I think the elevation and heat we get are a bit iffy. I have lost noble's as well and assume they just won't do it here.

As for a concolor from the Sandia's, that's a good idea. I am familiar with that area as I lived in Albuquerque for 5 years while in grad school (yup it took me waaaay too long). I have a wet site too. I am in the middle of a mountain valley with lots of water (including a creek about 200 feet from the planting site), and a relatively high water table.

Zone 4b is a bit misleading. It can get that cold, but I think the bigger effect on plant survival is the long, hot summer which is much more drawn out and longer than those types of deep freeze temps in 4b.
conifers
16 years ago
Try Abies nordmannia 'Ambrolauri' which is a seedling strain. It hardens off two weeks earler each fall and breaks bud two later. Which meets your requirements. Abies concolor should do very well but there's a hint of doubt in my mind in that you're saying Abies lasiocarpa var arizonica did not! I'd try that again. Bareroot doesn't clarify much. Try another.

Dax
pinetree30
16 years ago
White fir is your best bet, certainly not lasiocarpa, and definitely not arizonica as both of those are high-elevation critters. Southern Utah sources are as drought and heat tolerant as NM if they are from low elevation pinyon sites.
flattie
16 years ago
I would agree that southern Utah and N. Arizona probably have some great drought tolerant white fir. Come to think of it the North Rim might be a great place to look.

Thomashton hopefully this brought back some memories of the Sandias! Cheers and good luck.

Most heat tolerant Abies

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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱

pineresin

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