Yup-absolutely suited for the north Georgia mountains. And do be sure to select a strain from that specific area....it matters in such cases. What's more, by selecting actual SE genetics for your white pines, you'll have an especially fast-growing strain.

We wish we could grow the N. Georgia type of white pine up here in Wisconsin, but they lack the necessary hardiness. Where they are adapted, they are said to be an especially fast-growing type.

+oM

when trying to research.. try using the latin name ... pinus strobus ...

a cursory goggle search says its GA range is severely limited to the very far north in GA ... and i believe that would be mountains ... see link about pinus strobus ...

that said.. if you are getting very small .. cheap plants .. thru the forest dept.. why not try a bundle ... whats to lose .. not much ...

a call to your local COUNTY extension office... about such.. will probably get you great local advice.. or ask for a referral to the state forester who visits once in a while ...

but do let us know.. what the local peeps have to say ... or what you end up doing ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful:

"a call to your local COUNTY extension office... about such.. will probably get you great local advice"

Not necessarily.

Look around where you live. They are popular trees for the national wholesale nursery industry, but if they aren't common locally, not doing well might be a reason why. Zone 7a sounds to me like 1200-1800' ft or so? Driving around the suburbs of DC recently, I couldn't believe how awful most of the old white pines looked. I guess the branches have all been busted by snowy winters since 2009. Probably wouldn't be a problem down there. Try Wilkerson Mill in Chattahoochee Hills or Homeplace Garden Nursery, Commerce for recommendations, I suspect they are some of the more "advanced" local nurseries in the area.

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like the opinions are about as mixed here as what I'm getting from the nurseries.

We are in a valley about 45 minutes northwest of Atlanta, an hour or so south of Chattanooga, only about 900 ft in elevation. The hills around us are in the 12-2400 ft range.

I do see them around, but they are not common. There are a handful of really pretty specimens (my very amateur guess is that they are 50ish years old). Blue spruce, Norway spruce and Canadian hemlock are easier to find in nurseries and in landscapes, but I've been told those don't do well here either.

I haven't had a chance to talk to the extension people yet, but I plan to get over there this week and at least get their two cents on the matter.

So far, I have only located the trees at one nursery here. I'm not familiar with the two you mentioned. I know Chattahoochee Hills is a good bit south of us and without looking at a map, I don't know where Commerce is. I will see if I can get in touch with them.

first.. i forgot.. congrats... someone who is planning.. in advance.. a diverse planting ... oo-weee ...

you also said: They're on the list of trees that we can order from the Georgia forestry people,

==>>> and that is why i suggested the extension office, which is also my local forestry office ... i am sure you can get info at high end nurseries ... but we are talking the difference between a dollar a plant.. and a $250 plant ... personally.. i dont mind experimenting with a buck or two ...

here is a link different than the one below: http://www.gatrees.org/

you have a few recommended mail order options for small bulk trees... google: musser forests .... for such an option ... not that you have to order from such.. but as a great resource for information ... western evergreen might be another bulk option ...

finally ... a planting such is yours.. is also known as a 'wind break' ... you might contact your COUNTY soil conservation district office .. which again.. for me.. is in the extension office.. lol.. see how that works .... in my MI ... they are the ones who handle the annual tree sales .... and again.. just another source of information .... in that regard, this link:

https://www.google.com/search?q=GA+soil+conservation+district+office&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=GA+soil+conservation+district+office+plant+sale&spell=1

keep us posted ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: i dont see pinus strobus listed?????

Ken,
one of the nurseries I posted has been in biz since the mid 50s growing broadleaved evergreens and Asian maples. These plants tend to need overstory protection...hence I suspect they would have a general notion of which pines grow well in various parts of their state. More than one person at Rarefind can tell you all about the pines of New Jersey LOL.

Since you say you see A FEW good looking ones in your area, I'd say all hope is not lost. In fact it is very encouraging. I see that Sheffield seed offers some southern seed sources for it. If your plant is sourced from such seeds (again, a reputable nursery can help there) they have a good chance of doing well for you. IF correctly sited!

I'm surprised a location with such a low elevation is 7a and not 7b. What was your low during this winter from the North Pole?

Here is a link that might be useful: https://sheffields.com/seeds-for-sale/Pinus/strobus/////Tennessee//1055//Eastern-White-Pine,-White-Pine,-Weymouth-Pine,-Northern-White-Pine,-Soft-Pine

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 10:26

Check out planttntrees.org...scroll down to Seedling Catalog-TN.gov..........25 Pinus strobus for $33

Johnny

A little clarification (and another question)... when I said they were on the list of trees we could get through the forestry people, we aren't necessarily looking for seedlings. The area that we are planting backs up to our nearest neighbor and we would like to plant something a little larger so we could achieve the privacy aspect sooner.

So far the options I have found in pinus strobus are:
- 6 to 8 ft trees for $60 each
-18" trees for $32 each
-seedlings in bulk for the prices similar to what is mentioned above

We are looking at planting a total of 15-20 trees, with 4-5 of them being whatever variety of pine we settle on. Which of those tree sizes would be our best option?

Also, to answer davidrt28, our low this winter was 5 degrees. In a typical winter we have a few days in the mid teens.

Thanks for all the suggestions. You guys are awesome!

here in MI ... a well planted young strobus... say a 2 to 3 footer ... can be growing 3 to 4 feet per year.. inside a few years to get established..

a larger transplant.. will take longer to get established... and hence longer to get to extreme growth rate [and only God knows if they will grow like that in GA] ...

it is suggested. that inside 5 years.. the smaller will have outgrown the larger ... IMHO ... never go for instant gratification on trees.. unless you are having them planted professionally ....

it is a false dichotomy.. to go large on tree transplants..

david ... you seem to think.. as i read your words.. that its my suggestions vs yours.. hell i dont know anything about GA ... we just lay opinion/facts out there.. and let OP take it for what its worth.. and .. hey.. sometimes my stuff wouldnt fertilize a plant ... [as in BS] ....

finally... personally .... i surely would not spend 60 bucks on zone pushing large transplants ...

you said you were going with a diverse planting.. and now you saw your diversity is limited to pine .... do you have no other options in GA????

also .... i learned this when moving to acreage .... a sight block closer to the house ... can be much more efficient .... than trying to grow the sight block.. out at the property line ... you havent given any facts in this regard ... but a well planted small tree... can bock a bedroom or bathroom window... e.g. .. a lot faster than a 40 foot pine out at the property line .... and can be sacrificed in say.. 10 years.. when the plants out at the line.. finally get big enough ....

ken

Many good words here already...I'll only reiterate-Georgia is indeed within the range of Pinus strobus, but local genetics strongly advised. Likewise, this pertains primarily to the southernmost extent of the Appalachians in that state, not the big, broad coastal plain. There are, of course, many other pines that will do well there.

The advice to start small (to moderate) is golden. These are FAST-GROWING trees. Even way up in my Z4 tree farm, white pine routinely put on the 3 to 4 ft. growth Ken speaks of.

One last point: Deer have been known to munch on white pine, especially in the hungry days of winter. Do be prepared to deal with this, or face near-certain calamity. Maybe a bit melodramatic there, lol, but the deer will munch, and most likely, on the tree you like the best!

+oM

The property is mostly wooded. The area where our house was built was cleared by the previous property owner and was taken over by bramble. This is the area we are trying to fill in. Our goal is to mimick what is already growing on the property (primarily pine, maple, oak) and also to add in a few special trees closer to the house (paperbark maple, redbud, and others). The plan is to plant a mix of conifers (pine, Carlolina sapphire cypress, deodar cedar, one dawn redwood, maybe others) as about 50% of the total planting. Since there are already a lot of pines on the property, we wanted about half of the conifers to be pine to help it blend with the natural landscape. Deciduous trees (maple, oak, etc...) would make up the rest of the trees. Then the smaller, slower growing specimen trees would be planted closest to the house.

I was looking at the 6 foot pines because they are the only non-mail order pinus strobus I've been able to find, and they are about the same size as the other trees we were planning to plant (smaller trees aren't readily available unless mail order) and I thought it would help the planting to look consistent. I haven't purchased anything yet (paperbark maples will be purchased Monday) still planning/solidifying plans.

And for the record, I am not arguing, just explaining my thought process. I very much appreciate the advice. We want these trees to be healthy and to last beyond our lifetimes. Just weighing all the possibilities. I have been very frustrated that all the local places only sell larger trees. 7 gallons is about the smallest I can find in anything. A couple years ago we had a great source for cheap, smaller landscape plants and trees, but the owner passed away, his kids sold the business and the company that took over will only sell wholesale.

Unless you're an old guy, plant the smaller ones.
Whatever the local nursery tells you, I'd have a hard time completely trusting them that their Pinus strobus liners didn't come from a distant wholesaler who was using a northern seed source. It may occur in small parts of Georgia, but, overall, this is not a hot summer climate species. I myself have only seen wild ones in New England; even in the high (but not very high) elevation parts of Mr. Penn's Woods, I've never seen them. And those areas can look surprisingly alpine! I think getting local seed sources is really important if you want them to do well long term.

Now that I look at it, it's odd that TN's seedling catalog doesn't specify that the seeds come from TN. I guess it's obvious, since they are a forestry operation.
So, whatever size you get, make sure they are a southern seed source.

....and finally, if all you can get locally are the 6-footers, then plant away and in all probability, they'll do fine. One thing about pine-family members, they do transplant readily, even larger sized ones. This due in part to shallow root systems , although all trees' root systems are more shallow than is sometimes held in the popular imagination. But a pancake-shaped ball can hold a surprisingly good percentage of the roots on such trees, albeit, we do recognize that even in the best cases, large amounts of roots are lost in the process of digging/transplanting.

There, now that we've completely talked in circles-or at least, I have-let us know where things are at! To be honest, a nursery specializing in native trees and shrubs, utilizing careful attention to genetics, would probably do well in the various sections of the country. I've specified tamaracks-Larix laricina-and northern white cedar-Thuja occidentalis-for a good many "native restoration" projects up here. My contractors occasionally have to go through contortions to source this stuff, even though in the wild, it's everywhere! Ten years ago.......I know what I should have been doing!

+oM

WiscTom,
the problem is you have to take the perspective of a typical, only moderately scrupulous local nursery. They in all likelihood have to place some orders from distant wholesalers in the PNW or further north for certain desirable horticultural trifles. Like JM grafts or whatnot. Even w/shipping I'd bet the PNW is still the cheapest source. Then suddenly to fill out a LTL order, they figure, gee whiz, I might as well buy my white pines here too.
OP should ask the nursery owner about the source of his white pines. Look into his eyes and make sure he has a soul. (LOL) Of course they want to sell you a bunch of 6' white pines, they will tell you whatever they think you want to know about them. Anything is possible though. A handful grow their own plants. Maybe he/she will say to the OP, "see that white pine across the street" - pointing to a magnificent specimen - "I grew 'em from them cones".

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Thu, Sep 25, 14 at 13:58

"in all probability, they'll do fine"
in addition to broken limbs, some of the white pines in the DC area seem to have branch dieback, clusters of dead needles, and other signs of poor adaptability to the region. Hey, if you came from Maine, would you be happy being permanently stuck in a place 15F hotter in summer? Probably not.

Tom, if you think you're going in circles, you should be in my head, LOL. I'm hearing species names in my sleep after attempting to plan this whole thing myself :) As to where we stand, I am still not sure. I'm going to spend this weekend visiting/calling a few more local places to see if I can get my hands on some smaller ones. I am still mulling over the mail order option. We are going shopping on Monday for several of the other trees on our list. I may pick up one of those 6 footers while we are out. I might order a few saplings to plant with it and see how they compare. I'll probably plant a couple loblollies if I can find them small, in addition to the white pine, so that if the whites don't do well, I'll still have some pines in the mix. They too are hard to find for sale because they grow like weeds here.

Which brings me to my next question: We have a forest full of loblolly saplings. I've heard/read that transplanting wild pines is rarely successful. Should I attempt it?

Good luck kvicknair. Whatever you do, please don't ask us whether or not you should fertilize them at the time of planting!

kvicknair, you could try southwestern white pine (P reflexa -- often erroneously listed as P strobiformis) or Himalayan white pine (P wallichiana) -- I have both. These are perhaps more heat-tolerant than P strobus to an extent.

Forestfarm used to offer both of these...

Hhhmmmm beng.
Unless there are southwestern pines at places like the Atlanta Botanic garden, I'd be hesitant to recommend them on clammy Georgia clay soil. Seems like an invitation to root rot. P. wallichiana OTOH should be as you say, a little more heat tolerant than a randomly selected P. strobus, but perhaps not more so than a strain of P. strobus that has truly been growing for many centuries in the N. GA, E TN area.

The NCSU arboretum has no seed grown Pinus strobiformis, so that right there is a red flag to me. JC Raulston certainly made an effort to acquire every easily acquired warm temperate plant in the known universe haha.
The was a Pinus monticola that looked nice at William and Mary but it was thoughtfully sited by Dr. Baldwin on a sandy, sloping bit of land. Tree was taken out for a building expansion, and of course not replaced except possibly by something completely banal like a crape myrtle. It's sad when places like that lose their visionaries. Last time I was there, and I vowed never to visit again, everything rare seemed very poorly cared for. Place is obviously just being taken care of by someone with a McDegree in "landscaping" who just wants things to look anodyne and not a botany professor collecting rarities.

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Fri, Sep 26, 14 at 14:40