summer burn vs winter burn

16 years ago

i had about 6 weeks of drought.. watered my brains out .... 2 weeks near 100F .... VERY LOW humidity during the drought ... i noted days at 30% .... yeah .. its the heat.. not the humidity .. as they say in the SW US ...

anyway .... i have what looks like winter burn on a multitude of plants ....

and it got me to a wondering .... whats the difference ... how much winter burn is caused by summer weather ... only showing later in the year in winter ...

if summer hadn't been so horrid.. perhaps i wouldn't have had the horrid winter browning ....

any thoughts at the interplay between year round burn???

ken

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Comments (7)

dcsteg
16 years ago
Hi Ken,

Is this burn on both juvenile and established conifers? How about colors? More predominately on golden conifers or all colors?

We have had exactly the same conditions here in Kansas City, 30% humidity and temps near a 100. No burn on anything. Watering daily with new conifers getting the most attention.

Dave
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
Original Author
16 years ago
yellow tissue only .... older [though nothing in my yard is more than 5 years] and babes ... mostly noted on dragon eye type plants ....

no impact on any green tissue that i found ...

its probably lack of water .... i have not watered daily ... stock in place more than 2 years is mostly free range ....

a lot of p. thunbergii with weird yellow splashes ... the standard od's on pines [strobus and densiflora] ... but i don't see it on yellowish chamaecyparis .... forgive me on spelling .. its early ...

green picea glauca [and rainbows end] has a lot of burn ... but has rebudded as usual ... larix diana .. decidua i think and decidua pendula .. but not as bad on larix ... i am blanking on the other pendula mixed int eh trade ...

Dave.. your watering may keep them looking pretty through summer .. and i guess you wont be able to answer the question exactly .. until winter.. and whether you notice more winter burn than usual ...

anyone else have opinions??

ken
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first winter??? ... that means recent transplant last year .... i would submit that it is hard to come to any conclusions, when you abused it by transplant .... the chams... with the yellow tissue are very susceptible to winter injury .. more so after moving.. even if potted ... some good years ... some bad years ... the tissue could have been damaged at transplant ... and is only showing now .... i know you treated it with TLC ... but chams are touchy ... my best advice.... see what happens .... the damage is done.. i dont see what you can do right now .... no need to prune off the damage .. it will either thrive and cover it.. or it will crisp in the heat of summer.. and you can just brush off the dead stuff .... i dont have a lot of chams obt.. they are borderline z5, depending on micro-climate ... winter wind and sun will hurt them .... but too much shade.. and it wont be that pretty color ... hold your breath .. and see how it does in spring... ken
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Nate, I guess the burning problems of conifer leaves are not yet well detected. Some remarks about it. The golden colour of conifers is usually goes back to genetical, soil or other purposes. This is simply chemistry, but not enough clear. Its sure, that the molecule of chlorophil needs an iron Ferrum to be perfect green. If this misses in any percent, leaves will be more yellow. If you have some chalk in the soil, it may cause problems for the plants to built in ferrum. If you have too much magnesium in the soil, your plant will be also yellow, but otherwise. Thats why usually told, that yellow plants are sick. Its not so simple. The usual thinking says you: too much chalk - high pH - yellowship - sick plants. This formular is by my opinion is not enough. By genetical causes maybe a plant yellow anyhow without soil problems. Usually we want these plants, which are naturally yellow. Light yellows are the best, they are possibly natural selections - Pseudotsuga menziesii Uwe's Golden. Its enough for summer heats, will never die. A yellow Abies will less problems with burning, as it has deep roots, water gets enough summer and winter. I think, that your burned pine had not enough water for their needles to survive. The other group may live in a really bad soil, which may get problems, if any other causes are coming - less water, too much calcium or magnesium, which kill the chlorphil molecules. These are not "healthy" yellow. My friend used to say as I bring him a yellow one - oh, you were in the cemetery again? Crazy idea - chalk from a cemetery in 2 meters deep are not diffusing higher... Some word of burning. My Metasequoia Ogon is following the sun. In full sun we look more yellow as before the evening. My Pinus ponderosas burn every year in the winter sun. Its sometimes more killerish like summer heat. The soil is frozen, no water comes high, and leaves "burn", better told cant produce enough chlorophils. A new friend of us, Johnny Withrow reported us of bright yellow rigida and pungens pines in a place, where earlier there was a forest fire. Something happened there. But his replanted seedlings are also bright gold. Did anything happened with the seeds and cones in the fire? I mean genetic changes, of course. As I remember an earlier mail of Dax, as Rich Eyrie with a friend found a small yellow forest. They grafted them, but in the nursery all grafts were green. As they planted the grafts in the garden, they became yellow again. I guess, these are genetic yellow selections. I made a nice seedbed in 1987 after Chernobyl of Pinus wallichiana. Hundreds of seedlings were rising in total white. No one survived without chlorophil. Well, more and more new questions. Zsolt
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
Original Author
16 years ago
larix diana is kaempheri ... as is one of the pendulas ... these show summer burn much more than the other...

which is l. ducidua pendula ...

again.. resin.. ignore the spelling mistake.. if humanly possible ..... lol

of course.. both lose their needles every fall.. so winter burn issues are moot .... and the burn is on the needles from early spring.. fresh lush new growth ignores the heat ...

ken
nemoooo
16 years ago
Just wondering.. do you guys water the day after a good soaking rain? How about the day after a little drizzle? OR do you still go out and stick your finger down to check the moisture level?

We planted about 55 new conifers this year (for windbreak, etc.) and can't possibly go out and check each rootball's moisture. So I was wondering if there is just a general rule of thumb. Dave says he waters daily, but does that include days when the ground has already received some rain? This always confuses me. Our soil is mainly clay & shale, so even when I do stick my finger down in, it is hard to tell whether it's actually moist, or just the typical cool dampness of the clay itself (hope that makes sense..?). So I've just been giving them a good soaking 1-2 times a week.

I have an Irish Juniper that just turned into toast this week. It was planted last fall and watered very well. Not sure if it was actually winter burn showing up now or just the result of this heat wave.

Anyway, we are going away for 5 days, and don't really have anyone to come water all our trees... so I am worrying over what to do about all the new conifers (most of them being 9-11 ft. douglas firs, various 4-9 ft. arbs, some small blue spruces, and mugo pines).

We are having the same terrible heat wave here in PA right now with very little precip... although it did storm and rain buckets last night.

Laura
(who is becoming tired of dragging out the hose and doing Mother Nature's work for her) ;)
conifers
16 years ago
Spell Check:
Larix decidua is correct
Larix kaempferi (I don't want to start mis-spelling myself)

No burn here. Lots of Rain! I've noticed Ken that Picea glauca 'Rainbow's End' is in quite a lot of Shade at Bickelhaupt Arb and that when I had one (burned to the stake within a summer) it was in full sun. Picea glauca "green" should well be over any winter complications - I would think that this stress would show up early and be done with after spring flushes. Of course some flush more than once, but at any rate... anything you see now should be a result of current conditions.

Golden conifers - well, these are as hit and miss as any when it comes to clean needles/buds/etc- Again, as Fincham also says about 'Skyland's' - partial shade!

Good luck,

Dax
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
Original Author
16 years ago
hibiscus ....

this isn't an issue of last winter burn ... i am thinking this coming winter burn ....

second... one would presume you soil is basically consistent across your yard .... test one plants soil... presume the rest is the same ... unless one starts going off color .... and see if the soil is different there ...

when planting in bulk ... i am sure you aren't naive enough to think you wont lost a few .... no bodies that good ....

water them well .. then go on your trip .. even in my sand.. i don't water more than once a week or two ... depends on your mulch ...

with my hosta.. drip irrigation .. i water before.. after and DURING rain ... we have to have a pretty good rain to get good water under trees ....

when i water ... i usually water two days in a row .... first day to moisten the soil and the mulch ... the second day.. to actually get it down into the root zone ....

why do you keep dragging the hoses back.. leave them out by the trees ... lol ... you have an investment to protect ....

some will die. some will live.. some will burn next winter .... you really have to have some faith in them ...

ken
nemoooo
16 years ago
Thanks Ken, I like the idea of watering two days in a row to make sure they are getting it at the roots. I will have to try that before going on vacation.

Of the douglas firs planted in the fall, we have about 1/4 of them that didn't do well over the winter. They are not dead, but are pretty bare on the northwest sides. Not sure what we will do about those. But I am hoping that the newest ones planted this spring do better this upcoming winter. For some reason, all our spring plantings have done much better in the long run than the fall plantings.

PS - Can't leave 200 feet of hose out.. it will kill the lawn. ;)

summer burn vs winter burn

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dcsteg

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summer burn vs winter burn

Comments (7)

dcsteg

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5Original Author

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5Original Author

nemoooo

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5Original Author

nemoooo

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
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