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Bud Count

16 years ago

I was reading the definition of bud count on the AHS website and I understand but had a couple of questions. When do you all get your bud count? At the beginning before a bloom or when all the bloom is done and just count the bloom scars? And do I count the tiny buds that wither and fall off?

When I search Tinkers, I am amazed and a little skeptical when I see a daylily documented as having a bud count in the 40's. The count is supposed to be from just one scape, right?

Thanks,

Tracey

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Comments (5)

beachlily z9a
16 years ago
Tracey, I could buds when I document blooms for recordkeeping. Its better in a cool spring to delay counting until the weather warms up a bit. Here in FL, its warm right now! Its your choice of when to count. Unless you have a lot of bud drop, its probably the easiest to count scars on a couple of scapes and then get an average budcount. And, yes, it is supposed to be from just one scape!
carmen_grower_2007
16 years ago
Don't be skeptical, Tracey. Yes, it is more than possible to get over 40 buds on a scape. Personally, I have never seen that on a registered cultivar, but certainly seen it on seedlings. Now, I will admit, so far none of those seedlings have been unique or outstanding, but they sure had that bud count!

Also, I will say that I only have 300+ registrations and none that are recent, so maybe some of the newer goodies have great bud count also. Good branching is every bit as important as bud count though. If all the branches are bunched up together and many of the buds can't open, then a heavy bud count is useless.
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Deanna, I'm not Maryl, but maybe I can provide a few answers. Bud count is per scape--all buds that open on that one scape until the scape is done blooming. When I cut the spent scapes, that's often when I do my counting. It's easy to see the scars from blooms. Branching is a tad trickier. The main scape (that goes to the ground) is not counted. If there is only a top V on the plant, that would count as two branches. If there are more brunches up and down the scape, then those are counted too. I've linked to the AHS site for an example of branching, but I find the example confusing. Reblooming is from new scapes. Some scapes may appear while original scapes are blooming--this causes constant blooming over a long time. Other times, the daylily will quit blooming, then new scapes appear. Hope you haven't been affected by the recent tornadoes! Here is a link that might be useful: AHS on branching
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Comments (11)
Ugh, these pop up ads are driving me crazy! This was written out once but a pop up ad came up and it disappeared. Grrr!! I hope this doesn't sound too preachy but I have been mentioning this in judge's training classes for years. IMHO, bud count is secondary to BUD PLACEMENT. Of what benefit is it to have a scape with 35 buds if 20 of those buds cannot open properly because of their placement on the scape? A prime example is Moldovan's VATICAN CITY. I have grown it for years and it regularly has 30-35 buds per scape and beautiful blooms. However, if 3 buds are open on a scape in a given day, usually two of those cannot open completely because the other buds/ blooms are in the way. If it has 10 blooms open per day and 5 are not fully opened, that hugely detracts from the beauty of the flower. Even though this cultivar was up for a major AHS award ( Award of Merit) a few years ago and subsequently won, I just could not bring myself to vote for it, as I considered this a major fault. However, give me a plant with 35 buds that all open well any old day!! Many small and miniature flowers have this trait in spades! BAHAMA BUTTERSCOTCH, BROADWAY RUBY SLIPPERS, BROADWAY VALENTINE, MICRO DOTS and COFFEE TO GO all have extremely high bud counts and can have from 20-30 blooms open a day over a period of weeks and all of the blooms open well, plus MICRO DOTS consistently throws rebloom scapes here. So please consider bud placement as well as branching.
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I got Yellow Monkey a couple of years ago because of your photos, Edward. It did well last year, but has really been showing off this year. I'm not that far from Debra, but this year we didn't get much rain in the spring. Been making up for it this month though. We've been behind the average in rainfall, but we are up now. I know lots of people are talking about short scapes this year, but it seems like I am experiencing the opposite. Plants that have always been shorter are sending up taller scapes this year, & I have some plants that are really showing nice branching & bud count. They are plants that are supposed to get good bud counts & branching, but I haven't seen that til now.
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Comments (7)
Alex, we find it really hard to count buds during the flowering season--too much to do then. Plus, until the scape is fully developed, some of the buds seem to hide and then are revealed as it develops. If the plant is a bud builder, this could go on for some time. One hybridizer that I know of collects (by pulling them out of the ground, not breaking them off) all the scapes in the fall and bundles them together with the seedling's name or number and then gets his stats in the wintertime. I think he piles the bundles in his basement. (I bet his wife likes that.) It's easy to see the scar or little nub where each flower was. Then is a good time to count branching and get a scape height too. The AHS says that the bud count should be an average, not a range. I don't think that includes rebloom. Like Nancy said, rebloom is usually less that the first time around. Nancy
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Ed
16 years ago
40 buds per scape is above average, but not rare. A lot of the miniature and small flowers have that kind of bud count. Many of the lower substance type flowers.
You average a number of scapes, over more than one season even, to arrive at an average bud count per scape. It's easier to count the scars, and if you water a little more, those little buds won't die and drop off.
Ed
traceyanne
Original Author
15 years ago
Just when I was saying that it was doubtful that a daylily scape could have as many as 40 buds, my King Kahuna put up the first scape and there are at least 33 buds! I'm shocked and very excited.

Ed, thanks for the advice about watering more. I don't want to lose any buds.

Thank you everyone for their responses.
Tracey
Ed
15 years ago
Tracey,
'King Kahuna' is a great double and has been in contention for the Stout lately.
Especially in your/our zone, I recommend regular watering. Going from very dry to very wet conditions stresses the plants excessively and leads to some of the problems we face in this area.
Regular watering not only makes nice flowers, but healthy plants. Morning watering is best.
Ed

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