Wonderful. Wants to touch the stars.

the light cracks me up.. is it afraid of the dark????

i think this is a gee's creation .. any observations???

and at this growth rate.. shall we presume it is fully 'established' ????

ken

Abies koreana x Abies lasiocarpa is shortened in Abies koreocarpa (x)

Neat looking plant Dax and on my want list to replace some of the large native trees I have. Does it graft well?

-Will

It is established as are becoming some of my other conifers which were all planted 08. Another few years probably on the others.

Let's address the light ;0) I only placed five of those near my home & they're for my cat-only ha ha.

I bought it from Stanley & Sons with the tag as nordmanniana 'Trautmann' which Clement said no way. It was an easy fix to identify.

Whether it grafts easily or not, I haven't tried it. So Will if you can find one from Stanley, you'd save about eight years of waiting, for 15 bucks... ;0)

Gary Gee has the correct 'Trautmann'. I had him send me a piece last winter. Ken I think you're onto something more than my foo-foo light!

Chaws,

Dax

i dont understand what trautman has to do with this plant

ken

It was sold to me under that name. You mentioned Ken that Gary Gee might be the creator of my tree. So last winter I talked to Gary and asked him if his 'Trautmann' coincidentally is the correct (Nordmann fir). He didn't know so he sent me a few pieces to graft, which I then later spoke with Gary and told him he definitely had a Nordmann.

Make sense now? Since you brought up Gary Gee/Gee's things kind of went hand in hand, here.

Dax

Hi Dax,

i just bought one of these on an impulse and was curious if you had any update on yours 5 years after your last update in this thread.

Thanks

matt

Where did you purchase it and what would you like to know... I'm sorry? Do you need to post a photo of yours? I don't know if you do or not?

Dax

Hi Dax,

Sorry I wasn't very specific. I bought it from Dannaher which is north of Columbus Ohio. I was mainly there to pick up Pinus centra 'Silver Sheen', Metasequoia g. 'Northern Lights', and Acer shirasawanum 'Moon rise'. The last two were a birthday gift to my mother, although I was hoping she didn't want the Northern Light :).

I'm curious what the growth rate has been since your last update. Also, have you had any problems with it? A more recent picture would be great if you have something available.

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

Matt

Hello Matt,

I had one "weird" annual growth rate of 18" a few years ago. I'd say otherwise it's been growing 9" annually. On better soil than mine, it would grow quicker. The leader today appears at 5" while the side growth is at 6". How much more the leader will grow this year I cannot say, however I doubt more than a few inches (3-4" max.)

It's definitely one of my best looking firs.

Photos today June 12th 2016: Abies fraseri x koreana (still tentative)

Abies fraseri x koreana (tentative)

Dax

Hi Dax,

Thank you much for the reply. I thought it was lasiocarpa and not fraseri? Was there a change in he classification?

I like all of these hybrids that are appearing on the market I have several Troemners that I have been replacing my Pungens with. Any other Hybrids out there that you currently like?

Thanks

Matt

Hi Matt,

At one time I thought it to be koreana x lasiocarpa. Then, Resin chimed in and said for him it was very likely: fraseri x koreana. I get cones every year and that is the clinch that Resin needed. He can't be 100% but he's fairly certain.

I have an Abies x arnoldiana that I really like. Abies x insignis is one I would like to have (nordmanniana x pinsapo) but in all reality Abies numidica looks pretty similar. I'd trying anything with pinsapo. Abies x masjoanis being another. There's a conifer nursery in Europe that ships to the USA that has some of these hybrids as well as Abies species that are more difficult to acquire.

Conifers Gardens Conifers of The World

Dax

matt .. whether i bought them yesterday or tomorrow.. i am not sure i would be planting .. it was almost 100 degrees here near ann arbor .. yesterday ... just because you have it. doesnt mean its the best time to plant ...

also ... did dannaher have it in a poly tunnel.. if so.. its not acclimated to the sun ...

ken

Spring and August are my favorite times of the year to plant in the Mid-west. August is the time of the year that the most roots are being made and is the best time to plant.

I planted rhododendrons and a grape this past week. It's been near 100 here also. I water often however, and have all my plants marked with colorful tape high up off of the ground so I do not miss any. I plant anytime from containers and water. There is no (1) answer. Not to dismiss your concerns, Ken, but I don't conform to there's a few times of the year to plant, only.

There shouldn't be any poly on tunnels this time except for propagators propagating plants via cuttings, but there may be shade cloth. If you don't know what to do, maybe you forgot to ask if the plant is hardened to full sun, set it in shade for a week before planting.

Dax

Hi Ken,

Although I wasn't planning on putting my new purchases into the ground right now, I have not seen diminished success by planting at this time of year I have 8 acres and enough hose to stretch over 1000 feet. Granted, planting right now is a pain in the butt, it is just more effort to drag hose and deep root water. I agree with Dax, in that as long as I water once a week that I do not see much less success. Now planting in June compared to Deer damage, I would bet 9 of 10 lost plants is from deer.

I did put in 4 balled and burlap plants 3 weeks ago: Pinus f. Vanderwolf, Bosnian pine (no cultivar), Weeping Alaskan cedar (Latin name always changes), and a Caucasan fir.

Dax - regarding the Abies x arnoldiana, what about it do you like? Care to show any additions pictures? I will need to add this one to my research list.

As always, thanks for the information.

Matt

Looks like I found a photo from the Dax arboretum which i assume is Dax's place.

http://conifersociety.org/conifers/conifer/abies/x-arnoldiana/

I like the thick, rubbery-looking, needles.

From today. Abies x arnoldiana

Abies x arnoldiana

Dax

Dax, at the rate you're going, you're going to come up with a midwest-safe fir yet! That will be an accomplishment. Bravo.

These firs written in groups are possible hybrids while crosses from one group to another are not possibilities:

alba, cephalonica, nordmanniana, borissii-regis, bornmuelleriana, nebrodensis, equi-trojani, pinsapo, numidica, cilicica, tazaotana, marocana

----

firma, homolepis, recurvata, pindrow, gamblei, chensiensis, holophylla, beshanzuensis

----

amabilis, mariesii

----

spectabilis, densa, delavayii, forrestii, fabri, fargesii, squamata, chengii

----

sibirica, semonovii, nephrolepis, sachalinensis, veitchii, koreana, sikokiana, kawakamii, lasiocarpa, balsamea, fraseri

----

grandis, concolor, duragensis, coahuilensis, mexicana, guatemalensis

----

procera, magnifica

----

religiosa, vejari, hickelii, oaxacana

-----------

I do store pollen in my freezer :-)

Dax

That does look like it has intermediate characteristics between Korean and Fraser fir. If that's what it is, I'd be interested to see how they grow here in the Midwest - I've got some Frasers that are growing really well, but they absolutely have to have a gently sloping loamy soil. Korean fir is supposed to be able to handle slightly poorer soils than Fraser fir will. What's the aroma like?

Hi Jim. Very piney. I don't know what Pine-sol smells like, but that's what I'd think of.

Dax

I see, so not quite the sweet balsam smell of Fraser fir?

None sweettones whatsoever.

Very good fir for the mid-west however, and, strikingly beautiful.

Dax

Thanks for the update on this great looking fir.

"crosses from one group to another are not possibilities"

Not if the parentage of this fir is to be believed.

http://conifersociety.org/conifers/conifer/abies/x-vasconcellosiana/

I don't have an answer. My reference is a book Resin told me to buy and he explained that group to group hybrids were out of the realm of possibility.

Glad you enjoyed seeing my fir again.

Thanks David,

Dax

O.k. let me back up a step. When I got this book I asked Resin a question which I printed as my bookmark:

"Q: Are Rushforths' groupings of conifers a way for me to gather information on which may/will pollinated one another?'

Resin replied, "Yes within Abies fairly accurately so." (in Rushforth's book 'Conifers' he has Abies in 10 groups but Resin continues to say) "There's been one or two changes in the composition of some of the groups with subsequent genetic evidence (Abies kawakamii moved from Group 7 [balsamea etc.] to Group 4 [homolepis etc.]; and Groups 2 [alba etc.] & 3 [pinsapo etc.] merged into one group), but they've held up to genetic investigation quite strongly."

This still doesn't fully explain an A.pindrow x A.pinsapo hybrid, however "Resin" gives leeway when he states: Yes within Abies "fairly accurately so."

I'll leave it be to that for now.

Thanks David,

Dax

I wasn't trying to be difficult; I was just providing a counter-example even though, yes, most fir hybrids seem to be in-group. Take the world of genus Rhododendron where there are 8 very strongly differentiated subgenus...surely more so than Abies. Crosses between some of them are rare, but not impossible. (Or lilies where embryo rescue is making previously-thought impossible crosses, possible.) It could always be that the reported parentage is wrong for that one; we don't know the details about how many other species were present in the garden, etc. etc. OTOH I'm sure it wasn't declared a hybrid by "just some guy" LOL.

To finish your last sentence, "LOL (add sarcasm)" -I'll have to ask Clement though if he's that "just some guy" (:-0(add sarcasm here)

I'm certainly glad you brought this up.

Take care,

Dax

I'm glad you're glad.

It's very much an academic point to me anyhow, as, very unlike the case with rhododendrons, I seldom see how such crosses are improvements over the parent species. (The main thing you need to improve on with alpine Abies is their weak root system in hot climates, a problem more easily resolved with grafting.) And especially the wondrously subtropical-looking Abies pindrow. I can't imagine how this hybrid of it would be interesting to me...except academically. I was aware of it after all! In a big field of many conifer cultivars at the late lamented (by me at least!) Dilworth Nursery in Oxford, PA, the Abies pindrow really stood out from the pack. I kick myself for not taking a picture of that one, but of course I had no idea the nursery would be gone in less than a year. I guess they were too proud to announce to a potential customer that they were about to go under. Of course, I was crestfallen back in the early 2000s when they converted to wholesale - had they stayed retail/mail order, I no doubt would have bought many plants there over the years when I started my current garden in 2006. By the time they went back to retail sales in 2012 as a last ditch effort to stay in business, I already had a lot of what they were selling.

Maybe it was a cultivariant (:-0

Dax

Well exactly, maybe an A. pinsapo just mutated to have oddly long needles, and because of a nearby fir-with-longest-needles-of-all, someone assumed they crossed. Where's a plant geneticist when you need one!

Anyhow, when are you going to be selling grafts of this one on Abies firma?

You cracked me up!

I don't even know David when I may jump into grafting conifers again. It's really the same for seeds, too.

It's so easy for me to purchase whatever amount of pecans from Missouri's State Nursery and have them shipped end of Feb. to graft on them a month or two after. A couple hundred big seedlings cost about 80 bucks and that's with shipping. I have access to most all scionwood I need for free, too.

Those damn firma they want 2-3 dollars each for. Then I have to pot them up and care for them from spring thru the next winter and expect losses after they've been grafted onto.

None of that is involved with pecans. I get them bare-root and graft them bareroot. And the percentage takes are, very high.

I built a website that's going to launch next spring. I have 175 pecans/hickory/hican grafted and 30 each persimmon and pawpaw. I did however leave this website open to not entirely a focus on nut/fruit trees, so I could have exotics from time to time or even non-exotics such as oak seedlings.

Dax

I know this is a little old, but does this hybrid do well in the eastern US? I know Abies koreana will, would this one do well?